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Show us your 3 pickup basses!

#401
Jared Lash said:
Well, I'm far from an expert, but my understanding is that the phase cancellation/enhancement from a pair of coils is just dependent on the distance between them.

But of course there are lots of different factors going on with pickups and tone. So if you had a pair of pickups in the Ken Smith positions with J bass distance between them they'd be very middy with a jazz-like scoop and if you had a pair with one right next to the fretboard with a j bass distance to the bridge pickup (probably around MM positioning) then they'd be much bassier/warmer but with a jazz like scoop.

At least that's how I believe it works. Perhaps someone with a greater knowledge on the topic can clarify.
Click to expand...

...and with one at at far-neck and one at bridge then the scoop would be at a lower frequency than in a J bass...?
 
#403
Doner Designs said:
You guys are both over my head now. :-)
Click to expand...
It's just like I was saying about using the Graphic EQ metaphore.

Imagine a GEQ, now draw the familiar "smile" EQ shape with the sliders, creating a scoop in the middle. Now, use the raised sliders as a representation of the two pickups, and the scooped portion of the EQ being the place on the bass that has no pickups (that spacee between the pickups is represented by the scoop, the pickups are represented by the raised sliders on each end of the scoop).

Now, move the entire ~smile~ from left to right, effectively moving the scoop closer to the neck or closer to the bridge. The closer the entire smile is to the low end of the GEQ scale is the same as move both pickups closer to the neck, and moving the entire smile towards the top end of the GEQ is the same as moving both pickups towards the bridge.

Widening the smile (moving the two groups of the raised sliders apart from each other) is like spreading the pickups apart. moving the two raised groups of the sliders closer together is like moving the pickups closer together.

So if you think of the pickups like two raised groups of sliders on a Graphic EQ you may sortof visualize how moving the pickups around will affect the tone ... generally speaking of course.

Just raise ... let's say ... three, maybe four sliders that are right next to one another all the way to the top as a group ... that represents one pickup. Move all of the rest of the sliders all the way to the bottom, that represents space on the body of the bass where there are no pickups installed. So if you make two of those "pickups" on a GEQ and move the groups around on the GEQ you can sortof visualize how moving pickups around on the bass will affect the tone.

Again, this is a generalization but it serves to help create a visual metaphore that your brain may associate with moving/placing pickups within the 34 inch scale of the bass body. Pretend the 50hz - 300hz region of the GEQ are at roughly the F24 location, and the 2k - 3k region of the GEQ is the extreme bridge pickup location.

:)
 
#404
NollyPeriphery said:
Here's my triple pickup Dingwall:

8614311506_bffd796f11_b.jpg
Click to expand...

(That's the dude from periphery!) I saw this on FB, it's beautiful.
 
#408
Shinyflavors7 said:
Invalid Link Removed
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Oh man, that ~sound~ has been so overdone by now.

:eyebrow:

Bands like that sound so common these days, it's hard to tell one from the other. :rollno: The guitar tone is the same, the ~cookie monster" vocals that get used .... it's all just the same ol same ol same ol rehashed over and over again.

Sorry, but I call them like I hear them. :hiding:

It's not saying that they're not good at what they do, it's just that what they do is the same thing that untold piles of other bands are doing as well.

It reminds me of nearly any era, where a certain archetype of rock ends up being a big seller, then dozens and dozens (hundreds?) of bands come out with the exact same "me to" sound so the record labels or producers can cash in on the current fad. Like the 80's ... you can't count the number of hair bands that came out that all sounded alike. They even had the same fashion designers, wore the exact same clothes, had the same hairstyles.

Pop rock. :rolleyes:

And "no", I'm not an anti-rocker ... I've been into hard rock my entire 52 year long life. Unfortunately, when the mainstream decides it likes something, it gets ruined, homogenized, smoothed over, and made into formulaic patterns that fit a certain profile. After that happens it is certain death of whatever was "new". Music like that has always been the property of the kewl kids, who tend to be the ruin of anything good. Money turns good rock into pop rock. Then it's "get out the cookie cutter and produce another ~new~ band to milk the mainstream of more of it's munny" :scowl:
 
#409
Doner Designs said:
This is so freaking cool I just had to share it here...I did something similar with my M2500 just now. Makes it sound like a fat jazz bass. Cant wait to add the third pickup!

http://www.bassesbyleo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1357
Click to expand...
This is cool, it's such an obvious idea. SGD was talking about doing this same thing to create dummy pickups (remove all of the coil inserts in one of the pickups).

See, now I wonder if I shouldn't just mount a nearly solid block of those pickups from F24 to F48 and then tune them by removing coil inserts instead of doing what I am doing with the X-Bass ....

Hmmm .... thinking .. thinking ...
 
#410
Doner Designs said:
I might score the edge/outline using a dremel cutting wheel to avoid the risk of chipping. Not sure about that yet. Another idea might be to use a razor blade or some kind of cutting tool to score along a straight edge.
Click to expand...

On my three pickup jazz build, I had to enlarge the jack hole from 3/4" to 7/8". I had the same concern about chipping the edge of the finish. I used blue painters tape from any hardware store to cover the area, and used a step bit to route out the larger hole. When I was finished with that, I sanded the edge with the tape still on, moving away from the finish into the hole. The final result was perfect, no chips at all.
 
#411
Regarding phase cancellation, I think you guys are missing something. (Either that, or I am.)

The amount of phase cancellation is based on the vibration of the string relative to the locations of the pickups/coils, and that can be measured or calculated (by someone smarter than me). However, comma, such a measurement/calculation is only good for one string at one fret position -- move to another fret, and the old data doesn't fit any more. The string vibration is different, and the relationship of that vibration to the pickup locations has changed.

Think of the process of setting up a bridge -- you adjust the length of the saddle travel in order to change the location of the string's 1st harmonic relative to the 12th fret.

Now imagine someone holding the string down at the 1st fret. If you are concerned with keeping the 1st harmonic over the 12th fret, you now have to adjust the bridge again, which will then drive you nuts because it's impossible.

Silly? Sure. But it's exactly why I don't concern myself with phase cancellation. As someone else pointed out, if you only have a single coil pickup, you don't have to worry about phase cancellation. But if you have anything more than a single single-coil pickup, there is going to be phase cancellation. Nothing you can do about it, even if you wanted to. Because any measure you take to minimise phase cancellation (pickup spacing, or whatever) for one particular situation (open strings, for example) is going to be negated the instant you start moving up and down the fretboard.
 
#414
The other thing about phase cancellation is that it's usually too negligible to even be noticeable.* Usually.

I have a Waterstone Skelly that has an especially pronounced phase effect. It's the only bass I have that does it. I don't know why. The effect is very noticeable from string to string, less so moving up and down the fretboard, again I don't know why.

There's nothing particularly special about it that I can tell. It is passive, two humbuckers with the standard two-volume-two-tone controls and a pickup select switch. The pots are scratchy, but I don't even want to pop the hood to clean anything because I'm afraid of disturbing whatever it is that's creating the effect, 'cause it's pretty darn cool.


* I'm not saying pickup placement doesn't have an effect on the sound -- it most certainly does. I'm just saying that in the vast majority of cases, the difference in sound has nothing (or very little) to do with phase cancellation.
 
#415
Flux Jetson said:
Oh man, that ~sound~ has been so overdone by now.

:eyebrow:

Bands like that sound so common these days, it's hard to tell one from the other. :rollno: The guitar tone is the same, the ~cookie monster" vocals that get used .... it's all just the same ol same ol same ol rehashed over and over again.

Sorry, but I call them like I hear them. :hiding:
Click to expand...

It's been overdone because they did it, and then everyone was like "that's cool, let's play that."

OD (original djent)
 
#416
Shinyflavors7 said:
It's been overdone because they did it, and then everyone was like "that's cool, let's play that."

OD (original djent)
Click to expand...

More like record labels and producers said "the mainstream is eating this up, let's CREATE more of that and SELL more of that". It's as common as tattoos are now.

The same mixture of cookie monster vocals and palm muted guitars and over-produced sound has been around for a long time on the pop radio/MTV circuit. Djent or not, in any case, it's pop rock. Nuttin' special.

It may have been "special" for about twenty minutes until the popular culture glommed on to it and then it became so common and :rolleyes:, just like grunge and punk did. Good formats turn into formula as soon as Big Co's decide they can make Big Money out of it. And just like tattoos, this type of music has become boring, homogenized, teenaged, and so-what. How is it "special" or "cool" when 10 year old kids and soccer moms are listening to it? Kiss of death. My first thought when I hear this formulaic stuff is "Really?"

It's just an opinion.

And then again I never expect anyone to like what I listen too on the other side of this same coin. The funny thing is the stuff I am into is what influenced 99% of all metal and guitar formats used in stuff like djent. For instance, listen to the song "Toccata" by ELP (1974) .. good-n-loud, like you'd listen to any good rock. You'll hear nealy every "progressive" guitar riff that has been used since 1980. Or the Tarkus suite, the live version (26 minutes) ... again, every arpeggio sweep and palm mute, ever time signature change and meter change ... it's in there. Dark and foreboding? See "Knife Edge". Heavy chording? Check out "The Three Fates". Another one loaded to the gills with those forms is another three piece known as "UK". One song will do it ... "Carry No Cross".

Original Progressive. Music that was based on classical forms (that's classical, not classic) before most dject fans' parents were even able to conceive offspring. Is it better? Depends on who you ask. Is it original? It was ... highly. There was nothing else like even remotely ever heard before other than hard core classical forms.

I just get turned off by pop rock, it doesn't mean that I'm right. It is what it is I guess.

I suppose it is rather exciting that one of the stars of modern pop rock saw fit to chime in, very unusual event, to be sure!
 
#417
BlueTalon said:
On my three pickup jazz build, I had to enlarge the jack hole from 3/4" to 7/8". I had the same concern about chipping the edge of the finish. I used blue painters tape from any hardware store to cover the area, and used a step bit to route out the larger hole. When I was finished with that, I sanded the edge with the tape still on, moving away from the finish into the hole. The final result was perfect, no chips at all.
Click to expand...

I always use tape too. Probably will use a new router bit for this one too just to make sure it is super sharp.
 
#418
BlueTalon said:
The other thing about phase cancellation is that it's usually too negligible to even be noticeable.* Usually.

I have a Waterstone Skelly that has an especially pronounced phase effect. It's the only bass I have that does it. I don't know why. The effect is very noticeable from string to string, less so moving up and down the fretboard, again I don't know why.

There's nothing particularly special about it that I can tell. It is passive, two humbuckers with the standard two-volume-two-tone controls and a pickup select switch. The pots are scratchy, but I don't even want to pop the hood to clean anything because I'm afraid of disturbing whatever it is that's creating the effect, 'cause it's pretty darn cool.


* I'm not saying pickup placement doesn't have an effect on the sound -- it most certainly does. I'm just saying that in the vast majority of cases, the difference in sound has nothing (or very little) to do with phase cancellation.
Click to expand...

Maybe I was using the wrong term. I was referring to the fairly pronounced mid scoop that you get on just about any jazz bass. I was seeking to understand how the scoop frequency would change as the distance between pickups increases.

Your point about fretting is interesting. Usually (maybe always) when I compare control settings to one another I'm doing it with open strings. I'll have to try it with fretted notes too just for grins.
 

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