Show us your 3 pickup basses!

[BlueTalon]

The pickup positioning have a likely effect on all notes because every note you play, open or not, will have its own set of harmonics

This is exactly my point. And as a string is played at different frets, the harmonics shift (I know you know that), which to me makes it seem impossible to pin down the optimum pickup placement with mathematical precision.

which will be affected by the position simply because pickups in harmonic nodes affect phase relations.

I don't doubt that. But IMO it's just as true of pickups that are not in harmonic nodes.

Unless it's strictly an open string and the pickup is in, say, the 24th fret position, a partial from the string's vibration won't be completely nullified - but even so, the harmonics will be diminished depending on the position of each pickup. And then we come to the fact pickups are connected in parallel, which imposes its own frequency spectrum change on the note, and some pickups in parallel may augment some partials of some notes and diminish cancel out the other.

I agree with all of this. My point is that nothing can be done to control any of it -- except using one coil per string. But even then, even if the pickup isn't at the 24th fret, at some time during play the pickup will likely be at the midpoint between a fretted string and the bridge, creating the same effect, for as long as the string is played at that fret.

And all bets are off with multiple pickups. Can there be an optimum pickup placement for multiple pickups to mitigate or maximize phase relationships when the strings are open? Probably.

Can there be an optimum pickup placement for multiple pickups to mitigate or maximize phase relationships whether the string is open or fretted at any point along the fretboard? I seriously doubt it.

The point being, using harmonic nodes is by no means the only way - but it's awfully convenient

No argument here.

and it's been used to great effect before.

This is the part I question, unless the "effect" is sales.

Believe it or not, I am open to arguments supporting the idea. I just haven't heard any yet that are compelling. Most of it (MM "sweet spot", Fender Jazz 70's bridge position, etc.) sounds like marketing.

Me, I mount pickups on over-string rails and slide them over till I get a tone I like, but I have time to *bleep* around with positions.

That was just pure dead brilliant! Many kudos to you sir!

What if the mid position loses out on some useful sounds the "by-the-bridge-pickup" position would provide?
Again, this can easily be avoided by trying before routing. Measure twice, cut once.

Again, I am willing to be persuaded. Especially if one were to conduct a test with a pickup-tryout rig like the one you showed.

But at this point, I still believe placing a 3rd pickup at the midpoint between two existing pickups provides greater tonal flexibility than placing it nearer to either pickup. If there is enough room between the neck pickup and the neck to put an additional pickup there, that would probably increase the tonal capability more than putting it between the pickups.

But for between existing pickups, unless one is going for a specific effect, if the goal is tonal flexibility, IMO the best option is the midpoint.

 

[Doner Designs]

Gentlemen, gentlemen...can we please keep it positive. We have a cool thread running here. Let's not let it turn into talkbass rant-fest.

 

[fourstringbliss]

Quit worrying about it. There's no way anyone can tell you specifically how it's going to sound before you actually install the pickup. All anyone can do is speak in general terms. And I guarantee you that 3/8" is not going to make a difference in general terms.

And quit worrying about nodes or harmonics. All those "nodes" are calculated using harmonics (or mathematical divisions) on OPEN strings. How often do you play with open strings? All those calculations go out the window as soon as you start playing the bass anywhere on the neck.

All the care in the world to place the pickups in exactly the right spot to be in correct relationship (whatever that is) to the nodes of open strings means, if the assumptions are accurate and meaningful, your bass will sound perfect when you play open strings. But when you play an F on the E string? OH NOES! Everything is all wrong now!

Have you ever had any thoughts like that while playing any bass at all?

If you originally wanted to place a pickup exactly in the middle of your existing two pickups, and you allow yourself to be talked out of it, you're going to look at that bass for the rest of your life (well, as long as you own it) and wonder if it was really worth it, if there is really any advantage at all to moving it off center. And you'll wonder what sounds you might be missing.

Take it from me, a guy with symmetrically placed pickups on his bass, it sounds great. And if you don't feel comfortable taking my word for it by itself, ask any of the other guys here with symmetrically placed pickups. Ask ThisSNsucks how his Shaguar sounds. Ask Steve Stoner how his 3xMM bass sounds. Ask the guy with the Dingwall.

I think I was misusing the word nodes. There are certain pickup locations that builders have used that work to get certain tones, having to do with harmonics and such. My thought in this whole thing has been to put this new pickup in one of those locations. Originally I had thought to put it exactly between the other two pickups but that was really just for a symmetrical look - not because I knew it would sound good right there.

After searching and asking I now know that the 35" scale location of the Stingray sweet spot is about 1/2" in front of my current bridge pickup, so I'm going to move the SGD Neo pup I currently have in the neck position to this new location and install an SGD Sidewinder in the neck position. This will give me a dual coil humbucker in the Stingray sweet spot that can be switched into parallel (like the MM pup). That pup will also be very close to where a Ric bridge pup would be so I can get Ric like tones as well.

 

[Doner Designs]

Here's my three pickup bass. It's my Modulus 6er. Three Bart pups from the factory, but has been modded by me.

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The switches used to be just on and off for each pickup. Now they are 3 position with center = off and one way puts them in series and the other in parallel in any combination. Typical favorite settings are neck-bridge in series or Sweet spot alone.

This is by FAR the best sounding bass I own. (The wood grain doesn't show up very well in this photo.)

Any chance of getting a wiring diagram for that beaut? Series in any combo makes my head spin.

 

[Doner Designs]

About 3-4 years ago, the idea to do a "strat-o-bass" became a bit of an obsession with me and I built the bass photoed below.
the original idea was to have lots of tonal possibilities.. but zero active electronics if possible.
now if your not familiar with me or my work, then It should be noted that this was, by far, NOT my first bass build.

you can see that the middle pickup is about 1" from the "stock" Fender factory position and the other two are basically set to equal distances from the middle.. why . Who knows what I was thinking that day..

I set the pickup placements at equal distances according to just general math.. with no regard for anything other than my own aesthetics.. which turned out to be a very BAD idea...
the out of phase sounds were beyond annoying to me. and it seemed to be related to the fact that all 3 magnets were working against each other somewhat along the entire pickup area..

the next bass I built with this 3 pickup idea, was the new J.Backlund JBD-800B and I spent some serious time on the Pickup placements .. I worked with the scale length to find all the nodal points within the total scale length and place each pickup under a nodal point. this "seemed" to remove those odd "out of phase" sounds and it made the bass much more tonally responsive.
Which you can clearly hear on Jaymi's Video review of the bass.


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I will add that the owner of the bass above bought the bass after hearing the modulated "out of phase" sounds because he liked it and felt it gave his playing a unique tonal quality that was not found in other basses.. So he is completely happy with it.. and other than the fact that I didn't like it.. it was a stunning looker and a great playing bass.

I like the P variation on the strat theme. Usually this is done with J pickups and body. I have even seen short scales that look like they are done with actual strat bodies.

This is original and really nice.

 

[Doner Designs]

I have this bass and next month I'm going to be putting an Audere 3ZB into it.

For those of you who don't know, Audere preamps have separate inputs for the pickups so you can do a true stereo blend. I wanted to install a third SGD Neo in between the other two but couldn't figure out how I could switch between the pickups and still have two outputs. Then it dawned on me - rotary switch!

Line6man has been kind enough to help me and is going to be putting together a wiring diagram for me so I can use a three position rotary switch. I'll be able to choose neck/bridge, neck/middle, and middle/bridge - and be able to blend between the pickups in each pair.

My bass will then be:

Alder body with flamed maple top
Hipshot Ultralite tuners
Hipshot Quadrajust bridge
Three SGD Neo humbuckers
Audere 3ZB with Z-mode switch

All at less than 9 lbs.

Any updates?

 

[Doner Designs]

For a brief moment yesterday, my bass had three pickups.

Here's the pickup cover mounted on a Mk0 external pickup mount™:

It was then connected to a custom-made U-1000 universal connector™.

Then soldered onto the highly sophisticated Mk1 Mono output jack™.

Finally, the pickup itself was mounted on the Mk0 mount™,

And the rig was ready for testing.

The result? Exactly as muddy as I'd hoped, even considering this was unloaded by a pot because I was too lazy to add a volume and tone pot to U-1000 universal connector™.



This was the most complicated thing I could play because the bass had to rest horizontally. Naturally, harmonics had to be tested.

Now I have to go to vacation, get back, order the necessary parts for the planned insanity that the wiring diagram is, and then call my luthier to rout it.

How is she coming along?

 

[Doner Designs]

Pawnshop Bass VI converted to vintage-ish spec.

Is that thing as guitar-sized as it looks?

 

[Doner Designs]

I've been watching this thread pretty much ever since it started and I've been meaning to put my entries in here ever since. I finally took some pictures and got around to it.

I definitely don't have anything as impressive as you guys, but these are just my "experiments" from home.

Also, I haven't spent more than $200 on any of the following basses. You'll probably be able to tell by my starting points lol.

First up is my most complicated one. It started life out as a late 80's cort p bass copy without any pups or electronics. My uncle gave me the neck and body for free.

The bass has 2 separate circuits- P bass and Active Jazz bass.
P Bass Circuit:
HWY 1 P pup
Basic vol/tone circuit w/ 500k pots.

J Bass Circuit:
Geddy Lee Jazz pups
Bassmods 3 band w/ tone control preamp

Both circuits go to an on/off/on switch to switch back and forth. It is an absolute nightmare of wires underneath the pick guard lol.


Second up is a Rogue LB100 (i think) that a friend gave me for modding his guitar. The P pup was in the perfect position to make a fake Stu Hamm Urge bass.

Custom Shop 60's jazz pups
Stock Rogue p pup
Wired V/V/V/T

Sounds exactly like a 60's jazz bass, except it plays like a $50 Rogue... lol. I'm probably gonna get rid of this one soon.


Last up is only technically 3 pups. This is the worst and most hacked up haha. (This was my 1st modding project so I didnt know what I was doing). It started out as a $100 Rouge PJ you get off MF. I defretted it and replaced the J pup with 2 stratocaster guitar pups.

Stock Rouge P pup
Japanese No name strat pups
Wired V/V/V/T, however the back pup doesn't work anymore


So there they are. Nothing fancy, but they get the job done.

Nice job of putting the frank back into frankenbasses...wwhatever that means. homely but cool and lots of mojo.

 

[Doner Designs]

All finished:

What happened to all those beutiferous pictures??

 

[Doner Designs]

RLK - how is retro switcho coming along? Would love to see progress and clips eventually.

Mr. Doner,
Can’t know how much influence this thread has had, but the 3 pickup trend is definitely happening. Your funky cool military basses surely could have been somewhere in the back of my mind when I conjured the “Retro Switcho”.
Flux,
I’m humbled that you’re so taken with the "RS" design, but it’s at the most a variation of another bass.
The past year I discovered online the 60s Yamaha “SB-V” basses and really fell for that look. Yamaha also had a similar line of guitars.

There was a reissue, I don’t know when these we produced:

I didn’t trace the shape at all, but the influence is pretty obvious. The biggest difference being the lower horn. I also wanted the strap positioned further up the neck.

Even my pickguard was shaped to echo the lines of the SB 1C “banana” variant.

The triangle cutout was meant add some visual balance to the body and further hint at the SB1C shape.

BTW there’s going to be two of the "RS" produced!
Chris Stambaugh sent the design to Max, the GM at Best Bass Gear, requesting info about the PUs.
Max immediately wanted one for himself!

They plan on making his a Teal sparkle. Not sure what P-guard they’re doing.
I was going to wait to reveal my color scheme, but you’ve been so generous with praise, what the heck:
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The orange will be metalflake. We’re going for fun and garish. Again the color was influenced by another Yamaha:

I also want say how impressed I’ve been with your project(s) efforts.
I struggle to respond to specific elements because you put SO MUCH on the table!

 

[Doner Designs]

Does this still count?

Wow. I don't remember seeing this one. Like a manly version of a harp.

 

[xoloder]

These days it even has a double muff nano inside.

I love it. This just made my day.

 

[xander8280]

Steve asked me to come and talk about the "Space Bass"

I've had a few basses with three or more pickups. The first one was one of my '73 Ricks. I had started out trying all manner of wiring on it. I had phase switches, and series/parallel switches, a varitone... Then I replaced the Rick single coils with a Hi-A mini humbucker in '76 (broke the stock bridge pickup trying to rewind it) at the bridge and a Carvin APH-4N I got in '77 at the neck. So then I wired up series parallels for the both of them. My band mates called it the Space Bass.

It looked like this photo from 1977:

So each pickup had a volume control. I think I wired up the two tone controls as passive bass/treble like on a G&L (that schematic came with the carvin pickup). The wide knob where the pickup selector was is a Varitone. The extra knob is a stereo master volume. The various switches did series/parallel for both pickups. A phase switch for the bridge, and series/parallel for each pickup. There are extra switches, and I don't remember what they did! But they all did something. Not always useful either (like the phase switches).

There was a popular prog rock band in the area (NJ) at the time called Godspeed, and the bass player had a P bass pickup between the two Rick pickups. I liked the way it sounded, so I did the same thing. Then when the DiMarzio Model P came out I replaced the fender P with one of those:

This is about '78

It's a little hard to see in the old newspaper photo. The model P probably also had a series parallel. I had replaced the Carvin with the stock toaster, but the opening in the pickup was still larger.

This time the bass also had a Hi-A (Bartolini) TC1 preamp with active bass and treble controls. The battery was under the pick guard. Lots of fun changing batteries. The bass was now mono.

Around that same time I put a single coil pickup in the mute compartment of the Rick. It was an old pickup from a Teisco taken out of the case.

In the late 70s I had a '74 P bass with two P pickups, the extra one being at the bridge. Then I converted the bass into an eight string, installed Model Ps, and then in the 80s I cut the body into a different shape, painted it first florescent pink, and then fuchsia (hey it was the 80s!), and added a DiMarzio Model G at the neck.

(yay the 80! lol Note the keyboard player sitting on the Farfisa organ keys for the big noise ending)

That bass had seven switches. It was on/off for each pickup, and series/parallel for each pickup, and a phase switch for one of them. It also had a 6 position varitone, which it needed, because it was very midrangy.

In the 90s I added a third pickup to one of my SGD basses:

Back then I used EMGs. I had a 40P5, 40DC and a 40J in the bass on the left. The I replaced the 40J with a regular J, which I felt sounded better. I tried many combinations of the pickups, and then eventually made my own pickups for those basses.

For the eagle eyed readers; yes, the bass on the right is missing the output jack and a string is broken. It was just posed for the photo.

What a dream!

 

[RLK]

RLK - how is retro switcho coming along? Would love to see progress and clips eventually.

Well we're still waiting for the white Delano pickups to come in.
There's a chain of steps that can't go into motion without first confirming those pickup dimensions.

 

[Stealth]

How is she coming along?

I'm going on vacation for a fortnight so she's on hold till I return.

 

[IGotGas]

Here's mine

 

[Doner Designs]

Here's mine

View attachment 356060
View attachment 356061

That looks like a Stu Hamm sig...my favorite Fender. Just wish the price was a bit lower and would also prefer a semi trans finish so the grain is visible.

Nice!

 

[fourstringbliss]

Any updates?

At this point I have a Sidewinder (bright single-coil) pup ordered from SGD, have the rotary switch I'm using, and have the 4pdt switch I'm going to use. I'm going to move the SGD Neo I have in the neck position to 1/2" away from the bridge pup, and install the Sidewinder in the neck position.

It's my understanding that the stingray sweet spot is 31.3" from the nut on a 35" scale bass. If I put a Neo 1/2" in front of my bridge pup its center would be at 31" from the nut - close enough I think. I can use the 4pdt switch to choose series/single/parallel for both Neos, so I should be able to get an MM type tone from the middle pup in parallel. The middle pup and bridge pup could also both be put in inner single mode, which should be pretty MMish as well.

Having the middle pup right there puts it really close to where a Ric bridge pup would be, so I should be able to get Ricish tones as well.

The rotary switch will give me neck/bridge, neck/middle, middle/bridge, and neck/middle+bridge.

All this with an Audere 3zb preamp.

 

[thisSNsucks]

What happened to all those beutiferous pictures??

whooops, I had moved all the pics to a dedicated album but it messed up the links. I put the new links up in my original post.