Show us your 3 pickup basses!

[fourstringbliss]

The centerline of the pickup coils.

You are quite welcome good sir.

This could be very interesting! I would have three pickups with a four way rotary switch giving me n/m, n/b, m/b, and and n/m+b. I would also have an Sidereal 3zb four band preamp with z-mode switch. LOTS of tonal options.

 

[fourstringbliss]

It looks like my neck pickup is about 28" from the nut to the center of the pup. If I put another of the same pickup in between the original two it would be right around 30" from the bridge. How would this sound?

The other option would be to put a P-bass pickup between them.

 

[Flux Jetson]

It looks like my neck pickup is about 28" from the nut to the center of the pup. If I put another of the same pickup in between the original two it would be right around 30" from the bridge. How would this sound?

The other option would be to put a P-bass pickup between them.

I have no idea how it would sound, perhaps someone else may.

I've got a pickup testing project going on that is set up around trying different locations, including putting P-bass pickups in various places in combination with single coil J Bass pickups. They may or may not be of some help to you. See the "X-Bass" link in my signature.

I've been bogged down on that project due to some phyiscal therapy I have been going through for the last 3+ weeks. But I am cleared to return to work next week so I'll be right back at it very soon. So you might find a little help within that project thread .... or then again you might not.

As far as placing pickups at given harmonic locations (someone started calling those locations "nodes" in this thread, I suppose there's no reason not to use that word, I'm just more used to saying "harmonic", so hang in there with me on that) those are just points of reference. My playing style is sorta-kinda like Entwistle's in that I do a lot of open string voicings between fretted notes. It's a throwback style that is much like doing bass lines on a single trigger synthesizer (I am a keyboard/synth player that happens to play bass). So in my case placing pickups at known harmonic locations is beneficial. Otherwise, it may be just a point of reference. As far as being able to predict phase harmonics and such from given pickup locations, I am a total zero on that. Which is precisely why I am doing the X-Bass. I feel the best way for me to decide what the best pickup placements are and what the best pickup configurations are, is to simply TRY THEM.

Pickup placements can be argued all day long, but until they are actually tried with a given player on a given bass I believe that there are really no hard and fast "rules" about placement. I think that it all depends on all of the variables within the setup (player, bass, pickups used, amps, style, and so on).

It's kinda like asking "what are the best pair of shoes to buy?" .... obviously it depends on the variables in a given situation (person wearing them, intended activity while wearing them, and so on).

In my own experiences, I have found that the one thing that has the single most profound affect on how a bass sounds is string selection. I mean strings are the absolute last word in bass tone. So pickup placement is optimized depending on all of those variables summed together (style of playing, personal preferences, bass details such as wood - general design - scale length, and of course strings used).

So if this longwinded post were condensed down to the salt, the answer to the question "What is the optimal pickup placement?" is .... I don't know. You have to try it and see.

There are some general starting points though, and I feel a good place to start is at the harmonic locations (aka "nodes"). I mean, they're as good a place as any!

 

[David Jayne]

How would someone know where the nodal points are?
I'm going to be adding a third pickup to this bass

and my thought was to put the third pup exactly between the other two. Reading your post I'm rethinking that.

I'm thinking that the best thing would be another identical bridge pup, right up against the existing one. That would be Ray territory, I think, and would make for a fat, thick tone with just those two pups running. That's my best guess.

 

[fourstringbliss]

I'm thinking that the best thing would be another identical bridge pup, right up against the existing one. That would be Ray territory, I think, and would make for a fat, thick tone with just those two pups running. That's my best guess.

Funny - someone just suggested the same thing in a different thread!

What about a P-bass pup right between them?

 

[Feral Feline]

All finished:

...

PUUUURRRRRRRR...

Does Shaguar have push-pull?

My new Dingwall ABXXX5 Bass
Link Removed
...

Puuurrrrr...

 

[David Jayne]

Funny - someone just suggested the same thing in a different thread!

What about a P-bass pup right between them?

No way to know. I'm personally not into mixing pickup types. I stuck a P on a Jazz between the J pups once. Never found it useful mixed with the others. Alone it sounds good though.

 

[thisSNsucks]

PUUUURRRRRRRR...

Does Shaguar have push-pull?




Puuurrrrr...

The Shaguar does indeed have a push pull volume control which kicks in a series mode.

 

[Jaymi]

One of my 3 pickup basses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJmb9woYQE4

 

[Flux Jetson]

One of my 3 pickup basses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJmb9woYQE4

HA! So much for "not mixing pickup types" ..... that thing sounds SICK, and I am by and large not a fretless fan. I'm of the same mindset as you in the respect that I prefer basses without tone controls. It's all in the fingers and pickup mix.

Well done, Mr. Clean!

 

[Jaymi]

Thanks....It is one of my custom signature basses...

 

[Jaymi]

Then there's this one..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RERGJWtT5Y

 

[Flux Jetson]

Thanks....It is one of my custom signature basses...

"signature bass" ?? .... are you someone I should know about?

 

[Jaymi]

I dunno, am I?

 

[fourstringbliss]

Okay, so I measured from the 12th fret to the midpoint between the two pups on this bass

And it's 13 1/8". Apparently, 13.5" is where an MM pup would be on a 35" scale bass. This is an inch farther toward the bridge than a typical P-bass pickup. If I put a P-bass pup there how would it sound? What about an identical soapbars? What do you think?

 

[BlueTalon]

Quit worrying about it. There's no way anyone can tell you specifically how it's going to sound before you actually install the pickup. All anyone can do is speak in general terms. And I guarantee you that 3/8" is not going to make a difference in general terms.

And quit worrying about nodes or harmonics. All those "nodes" are calculated using harmonics (or mathematical divisions) on OPEN strings. How often do you play with open strings? All those calculations go out the window as soon as you start playing the bass anywhere on the neck.

All the care in the world to place the pickups in exactly the right spot to be in correct relationship (whatever that is) to the nodes of open strings means, if the assumptions are accurate and meaningful, your bass will sound perfect when you play open strings. But when you play an F on the E string? OH NOES! Everything is all wrong now!

Have you ever had any thoughts like that while playing any bass at all?

If you originally wanted to place a pickup exactly in the middle of your existing two pickups, and you allow yourself to be talked out of it, you're going to look at that bass for the rest of your life (well, as long as you own it) and wonder if it was really worth it, if there is really any advantage at all to moving it off center. And you'll wonder what sounds you might be missing.

Take it from me, a guy with symmetrically placed pickups on his bass, it sounds great. And if you don't feel comfortable taking my word for it by itself, ask any of the other guys here with symmetrically placed pickups. Ask ThisSNsucks how his Shaguar sounds. Ask Steve Stoner how his 3xMM bass sounds. Ask the guy with the Dingwall.

 

[Flux Jetson]

Quit worrying about it. There's no way anyone can tell you specifically how it's going to sound before you actually install the pickup. All anyone can do is speak in general terms. And I guarantee you that 3/8" is not going to make a difference in general terms.

And quit worrying about nodes or harmonics. All those "nodes" are calculated using harmonics (or mathematical divisions) on OPEN strings. How often do you play with open strings? All those calculations go out the window as soon as you start playing the bass anywhere on the neck.

All the care in the world to place the pickups in exactly the right spot to be in correct relationship (whatever that is) to the nodes of open strings means, if the assumptions are accurate and meaningful, your bass will sound perfect when you play open strings. But when you play an F on the E string? OH NOES! Everything is all wrong now!

Have you ever had any thoughts like that while playing any bass at all?

If you originally wanted to place a pickup exactly in the middle of your existing two pickups, and you allow yourself to be talked out of it, you're going to look at that bass for the rest of your life (well, as long as you own it) and wonder if it was really worth it, if there is really any advantage at all to moving it off center. And you'll wonder what sounds you might be missing.

Take it from me, a guy with symmetrically placed pickups on his bass, it sounds great. And if you don't feel comfortable taking my word for it by itself, ask any of the other guys here with symmetrically placed pickups. Ask ThisSNsucks how his Shaguar sounds. Ask Steve Stoner how his 3xMM bass sounds. Ask the guy with the Dingwall.

Blue ... relax will ya? Some people take enjoyment out of calculating things, working out math problems, planning out constructions, and generally working thorugh problems in their own ways. (To take your own attitude on the statement ...) "Did you EVER think about that?" That some people actually LIKE doing stuff like working out harmonics and "nodes" and such? I mean just because you did it one way does not mean it is the ONLY way to do something. In my own experience being a fabricator since 1972 I've learned that there are usually a number of ways to get things done .. or as I have said before "there's about 100 right ways to do just about anything".

So if *fourstringbliss wants to work through pickup placement by dividing up his scale ... LET HIM! Why is this such a trigger issue for you?

And as I have said to you in the past, everyone has a different playing style. In my own case I actually DO hit open notes in between fretted notes .... kinda like Entwistle did .... quite a bit to be honest ... so to use your own words .... "Have you ever had any thoughts like that...?"

My god man ... no one is ruining their bass by placing their pickups on harmonic centers ... if they want to work through those ideas and use that method of design, chill and let them. If you want to position your pickups "symetrically" ... GREAT! More power to ya man. But who is to say that placing them on harmonic centers DOESN'T sound better? If it gives someone peace at night when they go to sleep .... let them do it already!

Just put the torch down already. You've ranted about that issue at least 4 times in the last few months. Ok ... we get it .... you don't agree with the harmonic center pickup placement. It's written in granite by now. As for me, I've said over and over that the harmonic center is not "the only way" or "the best way" ... it's just the method of my chosing. And it's pretty obvious by now that others feel the same way.

We all have our own opinions about how to place pickups. But I see no reason to belittle others or be dismissive to others about it. You talk down to people, imply they are stupid or less intelligent that you are. "Have you ever had any thoughts like that while playing any bass at all?" .... no, he's FAR to stupid to ever have thought of that (that is sarcasm, btw .. no offense intended fourstringbliss).

Not cool. Not cool at all. Just live with it already. It is just an opinion on how to do things, the world won't stop turning, the bass will not be ruined or sound bad, nothing will be forever destroyed. It's fine to have your own opinion, and to tell others about how you think, but I see no need to be a jackass about it. You're a real piece of work dude.

To (again) use your own words ~kinda~ ... "take it from me, a guy who has built eleven guitar and basses and used the harmonic placement of the pickups (as well as other small timers like Rickenbacker), harmonic placement works fine".

Touche!

(NOTE: I will agree that a little here or a little there when positioning the pickups won't really make much of an audible difference).

 

[Stealth]

One of my 3 pickup basses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJmb9woYQE4

This makes me even more anxious (in a good way) to get that neck mudbucker into position!

And quit worrying about nodes or harmonics. All those "nodes" are calculated using harmonics (or mathematical divisions) on OPEN strings. How often do you play with open strings? All those calculations go out the window as soon as you start playing the bass anywhere on the neck.

The pickup positioning have a likely effect on all notes because every note you play, open or not, will have its own set of harmonics which will be affected by the position simply because pickups in harmonic nodes affect phase relations. Unless it's strictly an open string and the pickup is in, say, the 24th fret position, a partial from the string's vibration won't be completely nullified - but even so, the harmonics will be diminished depending on the position of each pickup. And then we come to the fact pickups are connected in parallel, which imposes its own frequency spectrum change on the note, and some pickups in parallel may augment some partials of some notes and diminish cancel out the other.

The point being, using harmonic nodes is by no means the only way - but it's awfully convenient and it's been used to great effect before.

Me, I mount pickups on over-string rails and slide them over till I get a tone I like, but I have time to *bleep* around with positions.

If you originally wanted to place a pickup exactly in the middle of your existing two pickups, and you allow yourself to be talked out of it, you're going to look at that bass for the rest of your life (well, as long as you own it) and wonder if it was really worth it, if there is really any advantage at all to moving it off center. And you'll wonder what sounds you might be missing.

What if the mid position loses out on some useful sounds the "by-the-bridge-pickup" position would provide?
Again, this can easily be avoided by trying before routing. Measure twice, cut once.

 

[Flux Jetson]

Final comment.

Music is a very math oriented form of art. Nearly every aspect of music revolves around math. Some people are attracted to that very aspect of music and all things musical. Musical instruments are designed on mathematical concepts, by and large. To some people, putting pickups in locations that adhere to the mathematical nature of music makes sense.

If, in fact, it doesn't really make any difference where pickups are placed (whether they be arranged to "look" good, or whether they be arranged to conform to some mathemtacal concept such as harmonic centers) then what harm does it do to place them on the harmonic divisions?

I mean, if it makes someone happy to put them on the bass so they look good, fine. But to some of us, placing them on harmonic divisions DOES make them look good!

So it comes down to ... once again .... opinion. Fine and good. But I see no need to place one's self above others just because they may have a different opinion about something so inert. It's not like we're talking about Nuclear Weapons policies or reenstating the friggin military draft or banning the manufacture of assualt rifles or whatever. We're just talking about building a friggin bass. To some, "symetrical" positioning looks good, to others, harmonic divisions positioning looks good.

It's like arguing about what the best color is.

Shutting up in 3 ... 2 .. 1.

 

[BlueTalon]

Blue ... relax will ya? Some people take enjoyment out of calculating things, working out math problems, planning out constructions, and generally working thorugh problems in their own ways. (To take your own attitude on the statement ...) "Did you EVER think about that?" That some people actually LIKE doing stuff like working out harmonics and "nodes" and such? I mean just because you did it one way does not mean it is the ONLY way to do something. In my own experience being a fabricator since 1972 I've learned that there are usually a number of ways to get things done .. or as I have said before "there's about 100 right ways to do just about anything".

So if *fourstringbliss wants to work through pickup placement by dividing up his scale ... LET HIM! Why is this such a trigger issue for you?

And as I have said to you in the past, everyone has a different playing style. In my own case I actually DO hit open notes in between fretted notes .... kinda like Entwistle did .... quite a bit to be honest ... so to use your own words .... "Have you ever had any thoughts like that...?"

My god man ... no one is ruining their bass by placing their pickups on harmonic centers ... if they want to work through those ideas and use that method of design, chill and let them. If you want to position your pickups "symetrically" ... GREAT! More power to ya man. But who is to say that placing them on harmonic centers DOESN'T sound better? If it gives someone peace at night when they go to sleep .... let them do it already!

Just put the torch down already. You've ranted about that issue at least 4 times in the last few months. Ok ... we get it .... you don't agree with the harmonic center pickup placement. It's written in granite by now. As for me, I've said over and over that the harmonic center is not "the only way" or "the best way" ... it's just the method of my chosing. And it's pretty obvious by now that others feel the same way.

We all have our own opinions about how to place pickups. But I see no reason to belittle others or be dismissive to others about it. You talk down to people, imply they are stupid or less intelligent that you are. "Have you ever had any thoughts like that while playing any bass at all?" .... no, he's FAR to stupid to ever have thought of that (that is sarcasm, btw .. no offense intended fourstringbliss).

Not cool. Not cool at all. Just live with it already. It is just an opinion on how to do things, the world won't stop turning, the bass will not be ruined or sound bad, nothing will be forever destroyed. It's fine to have your own opinion, and to tell others about how you think, but I see no need to be a jackass about it. You're a real piece of work dude.

To (again) use your own words ~kinda~ ... "take it from me, a guy who has built eleven guitar and basses and used the harmonic placement of the pickups (as well as other small timers like Rickenbacker), harmonic placement works fine".

Touche!

(NOTE: I will agree that a little here or a little there when positioning the pickups won't really make much of an audible difference).

Oh, like you've never been a jackass? or used sarcasm? Or ranted about the same thing over the course of several months?

I think you are missing part of the big picture here. If you and bruce bennett want to calculate nodes 'til the cows come home, knock yourselves out. But it wasn't fourstringbliss's idea "to work through pickup placement by dividing up his scale", you freaked him into it. "and my thought was to put the third pup exactly between the other two. Reading your post I'm rethinking that."

Which I suppose would be fine if there was something more than opinion and theorizing to back it up, but there isn't. It's just your opinion. Which makes it no better than my opinion.* Which makes it both ironic and hypocritical that you would get upset with me for sharing my opinion after two pages of sharing your opinion.

Interesting that you "agree that a little here or a little there when positioning the pickups won't really make much of an audible difference". That's been my whole point all along.


*The corollary to the idea that placing a pickup at an open-string harmonic is advantageous, is that placing a pickup anywhere else is disadvantageous. So as much as you are miffed at my argument that says you are incorrect, realize you are saying the same thing about me.

Unless... If you think it is somehow advantageous to put a pickup at a harmonic, but that it's not disadvantageous to place it somewhere else, I'd really like to know your reasoning.

And I'd still like to know what advantage the harmonic placement has when a person is playing something besides an open string. I need something more than "people like Entwhistle often play open strings between the fretted notes."

If you don't think that's a legitimate question, say so. Then say why.

You want me to relax? put the torch down? live with it? Just chill, yourself. And while you're telling me how I'm talking down to people, be careful not to fall off your horse.



Oh yeah.