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Showing Off. Why Can't Bassists Do It??

#41
The trick is to show off and hold the groove at the same time.

Are you up for that?

Victor Wooten can do it.

I cannot. So I'll hold my tastiest groove and let the guitarist do the wanking since he doesn't have to maintain anything except his tuning.
 
#42
Playing fast, excessive slapping, shredding, etc. have never impressed me. To me, it's nothing more than self indulgent crap. What really impresses me is a guitarist who can play a solo that has feeling and melody and a bass player that can stay tight in the pocket and when necessary, take the lead without stepping on everyone else.
 
#43
I find it quite sad to see so many musician worship the less is more ... no more solo in songs no more complex rythm no more anything. a bunch of uneducated musician that want to be rock star ...

At least during the jazz periode, the music was really a challenge to play.

And there is also a difference between rythm complex/active and melodic playing in my book. I also find it sad to see too many bass player and other musician try to avoid bass solo ...

Listen to classical music, string bass is as interesting as any other instrument, it isn't just there to fill the low end, it can solo, it can play everything a violin player would and when they do they are superhero. In the bass world bass player would bitch that he play too much and should only "groove" .... no wonder bass player are very bad at soloing, they only know how to groove and have obviously no knowledge of the overall harmony ... their knowledge isn't complete at all or they don't have any creativity ...

Creativity ! This is also a problem in music in general. Most of the time in classical music, a violin player won't write music , it is someone else who wrote something for this instrument and I have the feeling it made more creative music which won,t fall into cliché which is the bread and butter of the bass community.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MkJtI3FvU
bass solo at 4:17
 
#44
"Im guessing that youre an ass. simple music can be awesome, complex music can be awesome. just because you have lots of technical ability doesnt mean when you use it that it make the song better .. or even worse.

faulknersj said:
I'm guessing you are a rock player. A lot of rock players I know justify their lack of musical knowledge and mediocrity as a noble pursuit of humble humility. I think this ethos is part of why 'rock' 'indie' whatever, is dying. People are bored with it. I hope rock culture buys into the importance of developing skills again someday like Hendrix and other cats in that era did. It's funny that if Hendrix rips a solo...it's cool to rock kids, but if a bass player rips a dope solo...he is a show off ego maniac!
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#47
sizzle said:
really!?!?!

not every one wants to show off, not everyone needs to show off..including most guitar players..especially bass players. yes there is a supportive nature to the instrument/role that we play that should be served. you wanna wank? go home and wank in your bedroom to your content. dont do it on stage...it doesnt serve the songs the vast majority of the time, it only serves your ego

...that being said, playing only roots is lame and if your band doesnt support cool/tasty and even flashy/complicated parts that fit the song then you should ditch the band or educate them on your choices and the reasons behind them..youll find out soon enough if its an ego thing (usually with an insecure singer and/or guitar player)

playing a bunch of stuff just to try and look impressive = lame
playing a cool part that fits = cool
paying a cool part that fits and you dont make a big deal about it trying to look cool = awesome

ok, my rant is done..that is all
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Guys who take their craft seriously don't 'play a bunch of stuff to look cool' bro. They study music and are disciplined in their approach. They hunger for more knowledge and always know that there is so much more to know. They are fluent in a language, and get off on speaking that language with others who are fluent as well. They master many genres and techniques. It's no more ego driven than anyone else who strives to maximize their potential and reach the zenith of their abilities. When a great Chef uses a complex technique, is it simply to show off..or is it because the favors and textures can be exhilarating? When Joe Montana went out and picked apart defenses...was he just showing off...or did he strive to be the best player on the field equipped to handle any situation. . Hey man, I come from rock. That is how I know that this 'wanking' 'show off' ideology is a rock thing. There is great rock music out there, but I don't think the best in this genre strived for mediocrity under the guise of humility. A lot of cats dont even realize that they are so immersed in 'rock' that they think it is the only perspective. They assume the OP must have been talking only about rock n roll. Imagine going to see a Miles Davis show in 1959 with no solos. There is a whole musical world out there that cats who have never set sail and traveled beyond rock styles know nothing of first hand. I think it's like listening to someone who has never been to Europe, or Asia, talk about Europe or Asia vs. listening to those who have actually traveled there talk about it from first hand experience. Having taken the journey to places other than rock styles, I can assure u there are plenty of places where, knowledge, chops, taste, the ability to listen to others, technique, virtuosity, and the ability to hold your own when you are called on to solo and entertain a packed house reign supreme. We don't all exclusively play rock, and some of us are called upon to do bass solo's sometimes...and i think you would be hard pressed to say it was lame after a dude just blew your mind with a killer bass solo and the place erupted in smiles and appreciative applause.

Ever noticed how cats with the ability to really solo when called on also sound better and more interesting holding it down in the pocket?
 
#48
Here's the thing. When a guitar player is "showing off" usually it is DURING the song. What I mean is, there's still a beat, still a foundation, still rhythm parts (rhythm guitar, keys, etc.). There's still a SONG going on. The GROOVE is actually MAINTAINED by (wait for it) the BASS player (OK maybe with a little help) WHILE the guitar guy is going off. I would argue that if the guitar player were just going off by himself everyone would get bored to tears within seconds without that groove behind him. (Anyone who has ever attended a VanHalen concert and had to endure the ridiculousness that is an Eddie VanHalen unaccompanied solo knows exactly what I mean. Oy. What a dreadful mess.)

However, simply due to the frequency range of the bass, it....
1) doesn't "cut" like a higher instrument, thus you have to "break everything down" to hear it quite often. And that can destroy the groove.
2) requires that there is no real BASS LINE being played while the showing off is occurring in 99% of band that don't have two or more bassists. And that too can destroy the groove.

So, sure, you can show off all you want. Most "regular" people simply aren't all that impressed by it. And most aren't ENTERTAINED by it (and, after all, we aren't in the "pouring our souls out to the masses in the interest of art" business, we are in the ENTERTAINMENT business).

All that being said, there aren't really any rules here. Go for it. Show off all you like. Just don't be offended if the masses don't "get you" and your showoffy playing style. Nobody said you can't show off. But nobody said ANYONE HAS TO LIKE WHAT YOU DO either. So you may find yourself "showing off" in your bedroom rather than on stage.

Look, I've done it. I have played two hand tapping songs playing the melody and rhythm at the same time. I have slappity tapped and soloed until I am blue in the face. But it usually got me nowhere. Maybe a few claps from my friends. I still pull out some of that stuff (usually by request) these days. But it is rare and short. The sad fact is that it just isn't entertaining in most cases.
 
#49
two fingers said:
Here's the thing. When a guitar player is "showing off" usually it is DURING the song. What I mean is, there's still a beat, still a foundation, still rhythm parts (rhythm guitar, keys, etc.). There's still a SONG going on. The GROOVE is actually MAINTAINED by (wait for it) the BASS player (OK maybe with a little help) WHILE the guitar guy is going off. I would argue that if the guitar player were just going off by himself everyone would get bored to tears within seconds without that groove behind him. (Anyone who has ever attended a VanHalen concert and had to endure the ridiculousness that is an Eddie VanHalen unaccompanied solo knows exactly what I mean. Oy. What a dreadful mess.)

However, simply due to the frequency range of the bass, it....
1) doesn't "cut" like a higher instrument, thus you have to "break everything down" to hear it quite often. And that can destroy the groove.
2) requires that there is no real BASS LINE being played while the showing off is occurring in 99% of band that don't have two or more bassists. And that too can destroy the groove.

So, sure, you can show off all you want. Most "regular" people simply aren't all that impressed by it. And most aren't ENTERTAINED by it (and, after all, we aren't in the "pouring our souls out to the masses in the interest of art" business, we are in the ENTERTAINMENT business).

All that being said, there aren't really any rules here. Go for it. Show off all you like. Just don't be offended if the masses don't "get you" and your showoffy playing style. Nobody said you can't show off. But nobody said ANYONE HAS TO LIKE WHAT YOU DO either. So you may find yourself "showing off" in your bedroom rather than on stage.

Look, I've done it. I have played two hand tapping songs playing the melody and rhythm at the same time. I have slappity tapped and soloed until I am blue in the face. But it usually got me nowhere. Maybe a few claps from my friends. I still pull out some of that stuff (usually by request) these days. But it is rare and short. The sad fact is that it just isn't entertaining in most cases.
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In all the bands I know, the keys, horns, and guitar do stabs or loop something while the bass player has his way over the drums. I don't know why this isn't standard issue. Also, not all solo's are created equal and it takes one hell of a bass player to bring down the house with a bass solo, but I have seen it done so many times. I think like anything, the more u have to solo, the more u work on it and the better u get at making them tasty.
 
#50
two fingers said:
Here's the thing. When a guitar player is "showing off" usually it is DURING the song. What I mean is, there's still a beat, still a foundation, still rhythm parts (rhythm guitar, keys, etc.). There's still a SONG going on. The GROOVE is actually MAINTAINED by (wait for it) the BASS player (OK maybe with a little help) WHILE the guitar guy is going off. I would argue that if the guitar player were just going off by himself everyone would get bored to tears within seconds without that groove behind him. (Anyone who has ever attended a VanHalen concert and had to endure the ridiculousness that is an Eddie VanHalen unaccompanied solo knows exactly what I mean. Oy. What a dreadful mess.)

However, simply due to the frequency range of the bass, it....
1) doesn't "cut" like a higher instrument, thus you have to "break everything down" to hear it quite often. And that can destroy the groove.
2) requires that there is no real BASS LINE being played while the showing off is occurring in 99% of band that don't have two or more bassists. And that too can destroy the groove.

So, sure, you can show off all you want. Most "regular" people simply aren't all that impressed by it. And most aren't ENTERTAINED by it (and, after all, we aren't in the "pouring our souls out to the masses in the interest of art" business, we are in the ENTERTAINMENT business).

All that being said, there aren't really any rules here. Go for it. Show off all you like. Just don't be offended if the masses don't "get you" and your showoffy playing style. Nobody said you can't show off. But nobody said ANYONE HAS TO LIKE WHAT YOU DO either. So you may find yourself "showing off" in your bedroom rather than on stage.

Look, I've done it. I have played two hand tapping songs playing the melody and rhythm at the same time. I have slappity tapped and soloed until I am blue in the face. But it usually got me nowhere. Maybe a few claps from my friends. I still pull out some of that stuff (usually by request) these days. But it is rare and short. The sad fact is that it just isn't entertaining in most cases.
Click to expand...

When there is a bass solo in jazz, everything still continue ( well unless we talk about standart where they drop everything because the DB player only played pizzicato and well we can't hear him ... why wouldn,t they use a bow ? always eluded me ). A guitar player or piano player should be able to comp something behind your bass solo. You ( the bass player ) shouldn't be a necessity, everything should be working without you. If the castle crumble because you remove one of the card, it wasn't stable to beging with.
 
#51
bkbirge said:
Sure there are people who only think of the bass (if they think of it at all) as a support instrument.

But then again there are lots of ways to show off.
1. playing fast notes
2. playing one supremely awesome note
3. shaking the floor with the low end
4. grooving so hard that people have to dance
5. transcribing coltrane or bach pieces for solo bass
6. slapping like you are a tin can trapped in a giant clock
7. standing very still while wearing a Bret Michaels hat, long leather coat with fringe, and playing a P bass with tort guard, bonus points for growing a chin beard and/or having rockstar style tats
8. sing lead vocals

and last but not least, pretty much the best way for a bass player to get noticed...

9. don't play at all
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Oh man......I love that, especially no.9 ;)

I guess we are also the less ego'ed in the band and the most mature one LOL
 
#52
My Friends,

http://vimeo.com/62549014

This.

I have discovered that I tend to turn more heads and get more attention as a bassist by eschewing more conventional soloing and instead relying on the occasional little lick within the context of the song. The groove continues, everyone keeps dancing, everyone in the band stays happy, and I still get to rip every once in a while. It's actually more satisfying for me - I don't really want to show off everything I can do at once. We have all seen those guys - by the end of one solo, you pretty much have a handle on everything they're capable of. I prefer to give up what I do in little glimpses - yeah, the tasty little lick in that last song might have been really cool, but wait until you hear what's coming up next set. :D

And all without disturbing the groove. :bassist:

----
Kurt
 
#53
I think the problem you are having is that you think "showing off" means going off on some crazy tangent. Slapping wild where it doesent fit or playing some ridiculous riff where it doesn't fit. I show off by playing something so tasteful and cool that people nod or raise an eyebrow. Or I groove so hard that people go into a trance. Or I slap or play some ridiculous riff where it DOES fit.
 
#55
Why can't bassists show off?

Well, no one (not even the guitarist) should be showing off unless the song calls for a difficult passage/solo. The only person in the band who can always get away with showing off is the drummer when he solos.
If every guitarist you know always shows off, then they're not very mature musicians.
 
#56
I don't get into showing off, myownself. That's just me. But I play good bass and have a great reputation for it, and get the calls. Actually, when I was sick playing a gig one time, and just stood there motionless playing the first set, a guy came up at the break to tell me I was cool just standing there playing like that. LOL, I told him it was because I was sick. "Oh, well, it was still cool." "Thanks, pal."

Some bassists do like to show off, though. Fine with me. Do your thang.
 
#58
Good points through the whole thread but I just wanted to comment on the very first post:

zeppfan90 said:
I have even heard stories of a bassists just getting the bad eye or even getting yelled at for showing off or slapping at jams. What the hell??
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Just a thought, but maybe those bassists are not good enough to get a solo spot in the first place? A bass solo can be "bloody boring", to paraphrase Steve Harris.

zeppfan90 said:
How come guitarists can get all the attention and show off all they want...
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That kind of guitarist won't get any call from me nor from too many bandleaders. He(she) needs to be able to play solid rhythm first. I want to hear great solos in the context of songs, not the other way around!
 
#59
Also bass players are working hard when they play. Keeping time, groove, support everybody, take care of dynamics and song structure etc... There is no time to loose in our supportative role. The music depends on us, no wonder why guitar players have so much time to pose LOL
 
#60
Then there's Niacin where arguably everyone shows off all the time, and within the context of the songs which are mainly lick and jazz based runs in the vein of 70's style fusion.



I bought the record not because I'm a huge Billy Sheehan fan but because I like fusion and Sheehan was so uber cool on the "Win a lesson with Sheehan" thread that I couldn't but help support. Turns out it's a good record if you like prog or jazz fusion on the rockier energetic side. It even has a couple tunes that might be classed as almost melodic in places (blasphemy!).

Sheehan manages to play incredibly fast but clear using a rounds based tone that I couldn't imagine myself playing nearly so busy or smooth on (and still be able to be heard). It's pretty impressive.

So... showing off. Know your audience. Particle physicists give talks in one style when trying to inspire high schoolers and another style when giving results to an audience of other particle physicists. What is showing off to one person is a deep and interesting lecture on how the universe is put together to another.
 

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