Sid Vicious could play the bass

[10cc]

Some might say “The result of it”

 

[10cc]

No playing MF. Is this a joke?

Come on man, jump in the boat

 

[Michedelic]

No you aren't. Rather you are trying to romanticize the idea of Sid Vicious, then use that as a basis for legitimizing the idea of his musicianship. You are mistaken or in denial, as follows:



Apparently this thread is about likes and dislikes after all. What does your listening habits as a teenager have to do with the question of whether Sid Vicious could play bass? For that matter, since (as someone mentioned in a reply here) Vicious played appreciably no bass on the tracks that became "Never Mind The Bollocks...", what musical or technical importance would he have had for you then?



If something here legitimately is in question, then that is whether Sid Vicious deserves to be considered a bass player. Citing his "very tragic story" first of all smacks of euphamism or simply being apologist. But most importantly, it is irrelevant to what is in question.

There is every indication that Vicious was a right jackass. But whether or not he was is not germane to whether he should be considered to be "a fellow bass player" or any kind of bass player worth remembering.


Upon its original release, I started listening to "Never Mind the Bollocks...", and I own a copy of it to this day. A musician of a different sort in years prior, in 1979 I pickup up a bass guitar for the first time.

Way back then, among many other musics, I listened to various strains of punk or punk-like music. The ones I was influenced by most then were The Ramones, and also The Deadbeats and The Dickies. I never then or in years after counted The Sex Pistols as an influence on my bass guitar playing. But even if I did, in hindsight I would have had to admit that Sid Vicious was not the reason why.

What you said; the Pistols, as a BAND impacted my life, and he had precious little to do with that; Sid’s only legacy was as a personality/myth, which had more to do with him not being the sharpest tool in the shed, being brought up by a trainwreck mother, and repeating the cycle(hello, Sigmund)by being manipulated by a junkie whore parasite. It’s all fun and games until someone gets their arm poked in.

 

[Lowbrow]

I love the Sex Pistols - An appreciation that started at the actual time it was happening.
That said, Sid is a hopeless bass player, a fact evident on the ‘Belsen Was a Gas’ live track that appeared on the RnR Swindle LP, which I eagerly bought as an import as soon as it showed up in the States.
The guy stunk. Period. Good singer, tho.

 

[Chrisk-K]

Not every bass player has to be Entwistle, Squire or Geddy. Sid was perfect for SP's music. On a similar note, I find it ridiculous for some people to criticize Roger Waters's bass playing. His bass playing was perfect for PF.

 

[ultra60]

No, it's stereo. The sound is very dense and compressed. Steve Jones' guitar sounds like a Panzer tank! Perfect!

I can't hear any stereo separation at all. Which cut would you say would be the most "Stereo", lol. Now I have to go back and listen again.

 

[Tubehed]

I can't hear any stereo separation at all. Which cut would you say would be the most "Stereo", lol. Now I have to go back and listen again.

Pretty Vacant.

 

[BurningSkies]

What you said; the Pistols, as a BAND impacted my life, and he had precious little to do with that; Sid’s only legacy was as a personality/myth, which had more to do with him not being the sharpest tool in the shed, being brought up by a trainwreck mother, and repeating the cycle(hello, Sigmund)by being manipulated by a junkie whore parasite. It’s all fun and games until someone gets their arm poked in.

I loved the implicit threat in 'real' punk rock. I loved that it tore down the somewhat bloated framework of what rock had become by the late 70's with rock operas and theme albums and layers upon layers upon layers of tracks. Punk returned rock to its roots and in a way mainlines the emotion and connectivity that had been lost over the preceding decades. I really 'found it' about four years after its prime...I was born a few years too late.

But also, to me an interesting and important connection is an American band of a few years later. Social Distortion. They (following on the heels of bands like X) had figured out the formula of 50's rock/roots + punk rock ethic and attitude in a way that made so much sense in its connections to me. Beyond that, as a young player they really convinced me that you don't have to be a virtuoso player to say something, say it effectively and connect...and be successful in the music world. To this day I'd much rather listen to someone with earnest emotion who knows how to connect than expansive chops + extensive arrangements.

That said, while I have a serious spot in my life for the Pistols, I'd rather listen to Stiff Little Fingers if I'm listening to 77 era punk.

 

[Michedelic]

Well, he was better than Jaco, anyway.

(ducking)

Sid only needed four notes.

 

[Son of Wobble]

I can't hear any stereo separation at all. Which cut would you say would be the most "Stereo", lol. Now I have to go back and listen again.

Listen to Submission. Much use of the stereo field. The drums at the end roll right across the stereo field.

Listen to Pretty Vacant. There is stereo delay all over the drums.

 

[JimmyM]

So at best, he could pound root notes in a sloppy manner, which is ok since that's the one essence of punk.

You got it!

 

[JimmyM]

The demos were actually released on vinyl on the black market to compete with the official "NMTB," and in his tome "Bootleg," alt-recording history expert Clayton Heylin contends that it was Pistols manager Malcom McClaren himself who covertly distributed the contraband "demo" version.

The NMTB version is SOOOO much better! "But when your business dies, it'll not return"? What the hell is that? Much better with "But when your mommy dies..."

 

[Son of Wobble]

So at best, he could pound root notes in a sloppy manner, which is ok since that's the one essence of punk.

Punk is obviously a fairly simple musical affair, but sloppy is not necessarily its defining characteristic. The Alley Cats are an example of an early L.A. punk band that strove to be tight.

 

[Panek]

No you aren't. Rather you are trying to romanticize the idea of Sid Vicious, then use that as a basis for legitimizing the idea of his musicianship. You are mistaken or in denial, as follows:



Apparently this thread is about likes and dislikes after all. What does your listening habits as a teenager have to do with the question of whether Sid Vicious could play bass? For that matter, since (as someone mentioned in a reply here) Vicious played appreciably no bass on the tracks that became "Never Mind The Bollocks...", what musical or technical importance would he have had for you then?



If something here legitimately is in question, then that is whether Sid Vicious deserves to be considered a bass player. Citing his "very tragic story" first of all smacks of euphamism or simply being apologist. But most importantly, it is irrelevant to what is in question.

There is every indication that Vicious was a right jackass. But whether or not he was is not germane to whether he should be considered to be "a fellow bass player" or any kind of bass player worth remembering.


Upon its original release, I started listening to "Never Mind the Bollocks...", and I own a copy of it to this day. A musician of a different sort in years prior, in 1979 I pickup up a bass guitar for the first time.

Way back then, among many other musics, I listened to various strains of punk or punk-like music. The ones I was influenced by most then were The Ramones, and also The Deadbeats and The Dickies. I never then or in years after counted The Sex Pistols as an influence on my bass guitar playing. But even if I did, in hindsight I would have had to admit that Sid Vicious was not the reason why.

I have no idea why you replied as if you were personally attacked, but I'm not even gonna touch that. The second part of my post was just a bit of personal flavor, and yes, the Pistols influenced me to play bass attitude-wise, too.

Conspiracy time: In the situations OP describes as Sid successfully playing bass, Sid's bass is muted and there's a person actually playing bass behind the curtain somewhere.

Heard that one a long time ago, too

Ok, as a fan of the Pistols and punk for 30 years, I will agree with Panek on this topic. Sid could play basic root notes and they did have him turned up on the songs he could play. Look at No Fun, it's two notes and he could play it. Of course he's no Glenn or Klaus Flouride but he had an image and attitude that fit the band to an extent.

Exactly my point. When it comes to other bass players who were - as somebody in the thread earlier might say - "adequate" rather than competent, we don't have these sorts of debates. Meanwhile people see "Sid Vicious" and suddenly drop everything and go out of their way to let everyone know the dude sucked and couldn't play.

Oh, and by the way - another bass player who hammered out straight root notes? Dee Dee Ramone.
The left channel in the first Ramones album is basically full of that kind of playing and it's awesome!

Here's a version of "Belsen Was a Gas" that I haven't heard before. Apparently it was unearthed only a few years ago. It's Sid's song written for his earlier band Flowers of Romance, and it's a demo take where you can hear him well. Simple, but it works.

 

[Son of Wobble]

The NMTB version is SOOOO much better! "But when your business dies, it'll not return"? What the hell is that? Much better with "But when your mommy dies..."

I, too, prefer the beefier Chris Thomas recordings/mixes. But I also appreciate hearing songs in different stages of gestation.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

For all doubting talent in punk. Check out Nomeansno

 

[Kilgore777]

He was definitely on the first single, “Anarchy”/“I Wanna Be Me” as well as the follow up of “God Save The Queen”(basic tracks recorded Oct, ‘76); B-sides are anyone’s guess, but he was on the “Pretty Vacant” B, a cover of the Stooges’ “No Fun” which came from an earlier Dave Goodman session. Matlock contends that he walked away from the band because of the increasing BS manufactured by McLaren, but agreed to come back as a session player until late Feb ‘77, when he finally had enough in the wake of the story floated that he’d been kicked out for liking The Beatles. As far as who wrote what, it’s all he said/he said...
Glen Matlock - Wikipedia
As Jones learned guitar from playing along with Stooges and NY Dolls albums, any song with Thunders, Asheton, and Williamson moves, like “No Feelings”, I’d have to grant that Jonesy had a hand in; Matlock was a big Small Faces fan; something like “Pretty Vacant” is definitely his. Speaking of The Faces, Glen got his fanboy fantasy come true a few years back...


Since Rod was too cool for school at the time, Simply Red’s Mick Hucknall did a decent job filling in.

Thanks for the post... very informative. I was just referring to NMTB, but thanks for setting me straight.

 

[Panek]

For all doubting talent in punk. Check out Nomeansno

Also Klaus Flouride, Mike Watt, Jean-Jacques Burnel, Matt Freeman... the list goes on and on.

I saw NoMeansNo live in Warsaw in 2012. It was the loudest show that I have ever been too (my ears are still ringing) and the bridge on Rob's Precision Bass was literally rusting away. Amazing gig!

 

[Son of Wobble]

I was dubious that that was really Sid, but here's the band's sound man, Boogie, confirming that it is indeed Sid on the track (which Boogie seems to imply is self-evident, an assertion open to interpretation):

Long-lost Sex Pistols demo 'Belsen Was A Gas' emerges online | NME

 

[Kilgore777]

Also, I thought Lydon's book Rotten did a really good job of presenting the band from his perspective, his motives, behavior, etc. Generally speaking he's been a great iconoclast figurehead for long time. I don't necessarily always agree with him, but he was definitely the right guy for the job and carried contempt, spite, threat and general outsider attitude perfectly.

Don’t forget about his sense of humor. I think a lot of the lyrics in SP songs are absolutely hilarious!