Double Bass Simandl Etude #1 (from 30 Etudes)

[Dogfightgiggle]

I’ve seen two theories on the use of open strings:

My teacher suggested the first, which is try to not to play them on down beats.

The other, from the Henry Portnoi book if I’m not mistaken, says that you need to consider the note after the open string. If it descends then you should play it closed, if it ascends the you may choose to play it open. So G to F would be a closed, but G to A could be open.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

I’ve seen two theories on the use of open strings:

My teacher suggested the first, which is try to not to play them on down beats.

The other, from the Henry Portnoi book if I’m not mistaken, says that you need to consider the note after the open string. If it descends then you should play it closed, if it ascends the you may choose to play it open. So G to F would be a closed, but G to A could be open.

You see that written by Zimmerman in the first bar of etude 17. You don’t want to use the open G in any of the other bars similar to the first bar, to avoid unnecessary string crossings. You string cross to get up to B anyway so an open G is noted.

This copy of Simandl is from my high school days 50 years ago. I still use it lol.

 

[elberon]

Sounds generally very good. Tone, rhythm also good. You have a very good ear and it's reflected in your good intonation. Marking some dynamics will help you to think in terms of phrases rather than just playing from one note to another to another. Your wrist and fingers look fairly stiff and inflexible which causes your bow changes to be a little rough. I'd like to see the first and second fingers of your bow hand more curved and less straight.

Biggest issue I see is your rather "free" approach to bow changes. You get "turned around" a lot bowing wise and that will prevent you from giving consistent performances unless that's what you planned. I'd recommend using the hooked bowings that Zimmerman indicates. This will help keep your down bows on strong beats where they usually should be. Using the hooks will also prevent you from getting stuck too far out to the tip of the bow. You'll have to be more flexible with your wrist and fingers to get the right articulation with the hooks. Notice I didn't mention anything about your left hand.

Looks and sounds good to me open strings or not. One other thing, look up "maestoso" to see what it means. You do look a little tortured as you play it, so relax a little and think about what emotion you're trying to express, sad, happy, whatever so you can hopefully convey that to the listener (even your teacher). He/she will appreciate it. Good luck and nice work!

 

[elberon]

You see that written by Zimmerman in the first bar of etude 17. You don’t want to use the open G in any of the other bars similar to the first bar, to avoid unnecessary string crossings. You string cross to get up to B anyway so an open G is noted.

This copy of Simandl is from my high school days 50 years ago. I still use it lol.

View attachment 3980984

This etude is used as a high school audition piece in my state. Always interesting to hear the "creative" takes on the syncopated rhythms that occur in measures 2, 4, and 8 etc. The judges tap their feet lightly under the table to check these. It can be pretty challenging for some students.

 

[Andy Mopley]

Yep, many variations on the Tube for this piece, inclusive of playing on one strings or crossing, use of open strings, harmonic on G...lots to pick (pluck?) from..;-)

 

[Alexis Duntov]

Sounds generally very good. Tone, rhythm also good. You have a very good ear and it's reflected in your good intonation. Marking some dynamics will help you to think in terms of phrases rather than just playing from one note to another to another. Your wrist and fingers look fairly stiff and inflexible which causes your bow changes to be a little rough. I'd like to see the first and second fingers of your bow hand more curved and less straight.

Biggest issue I see is your rather "free" approach to bow changes. You get "turned around" a lot bowing wise and that will prevent you from giving consistent performances unless that's what you planned. I'd recommend using the hooked bowings that Zimmerman indicates. This will help keep your down bows on strong beats where they usually should be. Using the hooks will also prevent you from getting stuck too far out to the tip of the bow. You'll have to be more flexible with your wrist and fingers to get the right articulation with the hooks. Notice I didn't mention anything about your left hand.

Looks and sounds good to me open strings or not. One other thing, look up "maestoso" to see what it means. You do look a little tortured as you play it, so relax a little and think about what emotion you're trying to express, sad, happy, whatever so you can hopefully convey that to the listener (even your teacher). He/she will appreciate it. Good luck and nice work!

Very helpful and generous feedback. Many thanks!

 

[Mark_T]

I've just added the Simandl Etudes to my practice - somehow I never got to them earlier (I've been playing for 25+ years, I'm sort of an advanced amateur). My plan with them has been to read 1 etude per day and to try and play it as well and as musically as possible. I'm not worrying too much about fingering or even playing perfectly - once I get through the book, I'm going to start right back through and try to do better the second time.

Watching the OP's video, I think he's doing a nice job overall. I can definitely see some stress creeping in. Here are a few suggestions:

Check out Dennis Whittaker's video on centering, and try to find places in the piece where you can take those breaths and relax your body and your mind.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoJASVDqsj8

The bass moving around sympathetically as you play, like with shifts, string crossings and bow changes. Moving isn't a problem per se, but I'm getting the sense that you're not completely comfortable with your posture and setup. You may want to try making some small adjustments and see if you can find a position where the bass is braced by your body but you can still reach around for things. I'd suggest taking a small step back and having the instrument slightly less vertical. You may need to adjust the endpin.

As other people have mentioned, you probably don't need to avoid all open strings, but approach them musically. Also, for your first pass, I would definitely emphasize other aspects of the etude than that.

For tuning, I play with a drone on the dominant (V) or sometimes the tonic (I). It's okay to check some notes with a tuner, but try to rely on your ear first and foremost.

Great work. I think you have a lot of nice stuff in there.

 

[Mark_T]

Ugh, of course my response was full of bad word choice and typos. I meant to observe that the bass was moving around sympathetically. Unless you're very big, you'll have to move the bass to reach things, and that's okay. But if you start an up bow and the bass moves away from you, you're losing some of the power. If the bass is more cradled in your stance, the bow will drive the strings rather than tugging the bass around.

Similarly, when shifting, if the bass is moving and your hand is moving, you have a much harder target to hit - it's a much more complex dynamic problem. Sometimes it's a necessity, as you go from lower positions to the upper positions, but to the extent that you can focus on one moving thing at a time, that seems like a simpler problem to solve. Again, finding a posture where your shifts don't need the bass to move so much could help relax.

Lastly, I think if you're actively balancing the bass, that's a lot to think about. Again, cradling the instrument a bit more might help to eliminate some of those considerations.

I've had the best luck standing with an angled endpin (Rabbath style) or to sit on a low stool with the bass kicked out a bit and slightly off to my left. These days I'm standing exclusively, but getting your bass drilled is a big commitment (I suggest a RobPin if you're interested in trying it, but having a teacher help you is probably important).

If I've said anything that contradicts what your teacher says, listen to them not me... I don't want to make life more difficult for you, just give some thoughts to consider. What is it Dennis Whittaker says at the end of the videos, something like, "...I don't want to say this is the only way of practicing..."

 

[Alexis Duntov]

I've just added the Simandl Etudes to my practice - somehow I never got to them earlier (I've been playing for 25+ years, I'm sort of an advanced amateur). My plan with them has been to read 1 etude per day and to try and play it as well and as musically as possible. I'm not worrying too much about fingering or even playing perfectly - once I get through the book, I'm going to start right back through and try to do better the second time.

Watching the OP's video, I think he's doing a nice job overall. I can definitely see some stress creeping in. Here are a few suggestions:

Check out Dennis Whittaker's video on centering, and try to find places in the piece where you can take those breaths and relax your body and your mind.

The bass moving around sympathetically as you play, like with shifts, string crossings and bow changes. Moving isn't a problem per se, but I'm getting the sense that you're not completely comfortable with your posture and setup. You may want to try making some small adjustments and see if you can find a position where the bass is braced by your body but you can still reach around for things. I'd suggest taking a small step back and having the instrument slightly less vertical. You may need to adjust the endpin.

As other people have mentioned, you probably don't need to avoid all open strings, but approach them musically. Also, for your first pass, I would definitely emphasize other aspects of the etude than that.

For tuning, I play with a drone on the dominant (V) or sometimes the tonic (I). It's okay to check some notes with a tuner, but try to rely on your ear first and foremost.

Great work. I think you have a lot of nice stuff in there.

I've just added the Simandl Etudes to my practice - somehow I never got to them earlier (I've been playing for 25+ years, I'm sort of an advanced amateur). My plan with them has been to read 1 etude per day and to try and play it as well and as musically as possible. I'm not worrying too much about fingering or even playing perfectly - once I get through the book, I'm going to start right back through and try to do better the second time.

Watching the OP's video, I think he's doing a nice job overall. I can definitely see some stress creeping in. Here are a few suggestions:

Check out Dennis Whittaker's video on centering, and try to find places in the piece where you can take those breaths and relax your body and your mind.

The bass moving around sympathetically as you play, like with shifts, string crossings and bow changes. Moving isn't a problem per se, but I'm getting the sense that you're not completely comfortable with your posture and setup. You may want to try making some small adjustments and see if you can find a position where the bass is braced by your body but you can still reach around for things. I'd suggest taking a small step back and having the instrument slightly less vertical. You may need to adjust the endpin.

As other people have mentioned, you probably don't need to avoid all open strings, but approach them musically. Also, for your first pass, I would definitely emphasize other aspects of the etude than that.

For tuning, I play with a drone on the dominant (V) or sometimes the tonic (I). It's okay to check some notes with a tuner, but try to rely on your ear first and foremost.

Great work. I think you have a lot of nice stuff in there.

I've just added the Simandl Etudes to my practice - somehow I never got to them earlier (I've been playing for 25+ years, I'm sort of an advanced amateur). My plan with them has been to read 1 etude per day and to try and play it as well and as musically as possible. I'm not worrying too much about fingering or even playing perfectly - once I get through the book, I'm going to start right back through and try to do better the second time.

Watching the OP's video, I think he's doing a nice job overall. I can definitely see some stress creeping in. Here are a few suggestions:

Check out Dennis Whittaker's video on centering, and try to find places in the piece where you can take those breaths and relax your body and your mind.

The bass moving around sympathetically as you play, like with shifts, string crossings and bow changes. Moving isn't a problem per se, but I'm getting the sense that you're not completely comfortable with your posture and setup. You may want to try making some small adjustments and see if you can find a position where the bass is braced by your body but you can still reach around for things. I'd suggest taking a small step back and having the instrument slightly less vertical. You may need to adjust the endpin.

As other people have mentioned, you probably don't need to avoid all open strings, but approach them musically. Also, for your first pass, I would definitely emphasize other aspects of the etude than that.

For tuning, I play with a drone on the dominant (V) or sometimes the tonic (I). It's okay to check some notes with a tuner, but try to rely on your ear first and foremost.

Great work. I think you have a lot of nice stuff in there.

Ugh, of course my response was full of bad word choice and typos. I meant to observe that the bass was moving around sympathetically. Unless you're very big, you'll have to move the bass to reach things, and that's okay. But if you start an up bow and the bass moves away from you, you're losing some of the power. If the bass is more cradled in your stance, the bow will drive the strings rather than tugging the bass around.

Similarly, when shifting, if the bass is moving and your hand is moving, you have a much harder target to hit - it's a much more complex dynamic problem. Sometimes it's a necessity, as you go from lower positions to the upper positions, but to the extent that you can focus on one moving thing at a time, that seems like a simpler problem to solve. Again, finding a posture where your shifts don't need the bass to move so much could help relax.

Lastly, I think if you're actively balancing the bass, that's a lot to think about. Again, cradling the instrument a bit more might help to eliminate some of those considerations.

I've had the best luck standing with an angled endpin (Rabbath style) or to sit on a low stool with the bass kicked out a bit and slightly off to my left. These days I'm standing exclusively, but getting your bass drilled is a big commitment (I suggest a RobPin if you're interested in trying it, but having a teacher help you is probably important).

If I've said anything that contradicts what your teacher says, listen to them not me... I don't want to make life more difficult for you, just give some thoughts to consider. What is it Dennis Whittaker says at the end of the videos, something like, "...I don't want to say this is the only way of practicing..."

Very useful feedback! Many thanks.

 

[elberon]

Very helpful and generous feedback. Many thanks!

I looked at the edition of this I have at school and it's edited differently than the Zimmerman edition I have at home. Check this one out, it has some bowings that may not be included in your version.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

I looked at the edition of this I have at school and it's edited differently than the Zimmerman edition I have at home. Check this one out, it has some bowings that may not be included in your version.

I have a copy I downloaded from imslp. Same bowings I believe, but it has piano accompaniment staves. Thanks! Where do you teach?

 

[elberon]

I have a copy I downloaded from imslp. Same bowings I believe, but it has piano accompaniment staves. Thanks! Where do you teach?

I teach at a high school arts academy in NC. I run the strings program and teach AP Music Theory. It’s worth it to get the Simandl 30 Studies for Bass. It’s published by international and edited by Fred Zimmerman. You have a private teacher yet? Sounds like you’re working with someone.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

I teach at a high school arts academy in NC. I run the strings program and teach AP Music Theory. It’s worth it to get the Simandl 30 Studies for Bass. It’s published by international and edited by Fred Zimmerman. You have a private teacher yet? Sounds like you’re working with someone.

Yes, I’m enrolled at New School Jazz and have a solid instructor. Thanks!

 

[elberon]

Yes, I’m enrolled at New School Jazz and have a solid instructor. Thanks!

That's an awesome school. Hope you didn't think I was angling to give you lessons. I have enough to do already. My son went to NYU in the jazz program early to mid 2000's and lived in Brooklyn close to the the Ebbetts field site. He played around town a lot with a pianist named Elan Mehler. Check him out if you can, he now operates a "boutique" record label.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

That's an awesome school. Hope you didn't think I was angling to give you lessons. I have enough to do already. My son went to NYU in the jazz program early to mid 2000's and lived in Brooklyn close to the the Ebbetts field site. He played around town a lot with a pianist named Elan Mehler. Check him out if you can, he now operates a "boutique" record label.

You sound like a great teacher.