Singer has pitch issues — fire the drummer?

[Bullitt5135]

Question: Have you worked with a singer with pitch issues, and did giving him/her time to sort it out through lessons or coaching actually help? How long did the process take, or was it just a waste of time?

Back story: I've been with a new cover band for the past few months. I like just about everything about this band, but the singer has issues with pitch control. Now that we have a few gigs under our belt, it's apparent that he's pretty good most of the time. But there's usually a part in just about every song that makes me cringe – it's typically a tendency to go for a high harmony note that he hears in his head instead of sticking to the melody...then coming in sharp to boot. I've called out a few things at rehearsal, but it just doesn't seem to register with him. I'm a lousy singer myself, so I can't demonstrate what I'm talking about. He has a powerful voice and good range. If I had to guess, he probably has never taken vocal lessons and does not know how to practice or warm up beyond just singing along to the original recordings.

We are at a bit of a crossroads. We have the nucleus of a good, fun band. Personality-wise, we have no issues. We started as a post-covid "let's just get together and jam and have some fun" band, but we're getting some traction and want to get out in front of people. There's nothing worse than hearing, "You guys sounded great, but I don't know about that singer." Honestly, he's not terrible. It's more like he's the reliable running back that goes 95 yards, then fumbles the ball at the goal line.

We are going to address the issue one way or the other. Either we're going to cut him loose and find a new singer, or tell him he's got pitch issues and he needs to come up with a plan for cleaning it up. There is no immediate sense of urgency, as we have no gigs on the calendar. We genuinely like the guy...he's always prepared and has good retention of the lyrics. Secondary issues are a lack of stage presence (he is aware of it and gets a little better with each gig), and a balky sense of timing (not feeling/when to come in after an extended intro or guitar solo). It's all just a lack of experience.

My inclination is to give this guy a chance to step up his game. Point out the issues and suggest he find a vocal coach to work with. This is a "just for fun" band, not a commercial enterprise. There's not much at stake other than our egos, but the issues are obvious and they are causing discontent in the ranks. I'm just not sure it's realistic to expect the guy to magically get better in the next few months. Maybe it's time to fire the drummer?

 

[LBS-bass]

Most singers do not practice enough or warm up before they sing. For someone whose intonation and ear is generally good, this can fix 90% of the problems you're hearing. Ask him if he ever sings at home to keep his voice in shape or if he does any exercises to support his core singing muscles. He should not need a bunch of lessons to fix this but if he can't do it otherwise, that would not hurt.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Most singers do not practice enough or warm up before they sing. For someone whose intonation and ear is generally good, this can fix 90% of the problems you're hearing. Ask him if he ever sings at home to keep his voice in shape or if he does any exercises to support his core singing muscles. He should not need a bunch of lessons to fix this but if he can't do it otherwise, that would not hurt.

I think this is the crux of it. I think a good coach could help him learn good fundamentals, how to train his ear, how to practice, and how to warm up properly.

Like I said, I am a lousy singer. But watching 10 minutes of YouTube videos about singing techniques has taught me that there are a number of fundamental concepts that are essential to being a good singer. Even with my rudimentary understanding of singing, I can tell this guy is not aware of those fundamental concepts.

 

[ArtechnikA]

Can he recognise the issue on a rehearsal recording playback? That's key, IME. Everyone I've worked with who had this issue always said everything was good. If they can't hear it, can't recognize it, can't acknowledge it as an issue, they have bigger problems than rehearsal and practice can fix - this requires professional coaching and may still never yield results.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

A good vocal coach would be a great idea, if such a thing can be found in your area. If not than be sure he's using a correct singing method, from the diaphragm.

Good monitors at practice and lots of work on vocals at practice so he can really hear the weak spots.

This will sound dumb, at least I thought so when I heard it, but our guitarist told the singer to concentrate on trying to smile when singing. Maybe it's a mental thing to concentrate on the enjoyment of singing. But it worked for the most part and as time went by and the comfort level set in more and more the weak spots became more and more rare. Just sharing, don't kill the messenger.

 

[Swipter]

Yes on pitch issues and the problem was never resolved and the singer was never fired. This was a church group so the only control I had were the notes i played and her sound in my IEM, which was off.

Thr drummer was a trained jazz drummer and clicked. We could look at each other and knew what the other was going to do.

 

[gln1955]

Anther thing to consider is if he can hear himself, the other singers and the instruments he is cueing from. Poor monitors or everyone playing to damned loud won't help his situation.

 

[AGCurry]

Can he recognise the issue on a rehearsal recording playback? That's key, IME. Everyone I've worked with who had this issue always said everything was good. If they can't hear it, can't recognize it, can't acknowledge it as an issue, they have bigger problems than rehearsal and practice can fix - this requires professional coaching and may still never yield results.

This. Improvement in anything requires a) recognition of one's own deficiencies, b) willingness to listen and learn, and c) work. If your singer doesn't have these two skills, it's time to show him the door.

 

[SoCal80s]

First make sure he's got a good monitor and good monitor mix. Given that, my experience has been that being able to sing on pitch is something you either have or you don't. Those that weren't born with it worked hard at it when they were young. A good coach and ear training would certainly help anyone, but don't expect immediate results. If it's holding you back, then it's time to find a new singer. If you aren't going any further than you are now, then it's worth sticking with a good guy. The singer is the thing the audience will notice the most about your band and off-pitch singing will drive people away, so you can't take a chance on it if you want to be doing more and better gigs.

 

[turf3]

Well, at least he's sharp. Better to be sharp than out of tune.

 

[kevindahl]

1)can he hear himself? maybe suck it up and buy IEM's. Singers have it easy when it comes to gear. He will never go back to floor wedges after IEM's.
2)Do you tape yourselves regularly? Is he able to identify where he is off key? If not then that's a whole new ballgame.
3)Suggesting lessons might be considered offensive depending on the ego of the person. Most older musicians don't accept this feedback with enthusiasm
4)Singers are hard to find. If he fits in personally and socially and sings parts mostly on key are you prepared to fire him? It might be awhile before you are gigging again.
5)He might have to purchase a device like voice live play where he can adjust the percentage of autotune.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

A singer I know went from Ok to pretty damn good with the switch to IEMs. They are now able to hear themselves without pushing things.

 

[LBS-bass]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounded to me as though he has good intonation most of the time, but is just stretching in spots and not hitting what he wants to hit in those instances. If he has good intonation most of the time, his ear is not the problem. If he doesn't, then yes, the others are right to suggest this isn't an easy fix.

 

[PaulS]

A good vocal coach would be a great idea, if such a thing can be found in your area. If not than be sure he's using a correct singing method, from the diaphragm.

Good monitors at practice and lots of work on vocals at practice so he can really hear the weak spots.

This will sound dumb, at least I thought so when I heard it, but our guitarist told the singer to concentrate on trying to smile when singing. Maybe it's a mental thing to concentrate on the enjoyment of singing. But it worked for the most part and as time went by and the comfort level set in more and more the weak spots became more and more rare. Just sharing, don't kill the messenger.

my wife has been a singer for 50 years, and “smile while you sing” is the exact advice she gave to our singer when he was getting a little out of tune when he tried to sing higher. It works.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Can he recognise the issue on a rehearsal recording playback? That's key, IME. Everyone I've worked with who had this issue always said everything was good. If they can't hear it, can't recognize it, can't acknowledge it as an issue, they have bigger problems than rehearsal and practice can fix - this requires professional coaching and may still never yield results.

I’m not sure he hears it. When i say something like “it sounds like you are jumping to the high harmony on the last word/note,” he’ll say something like “well, that’s how I’ve always sung it…I guess I can go back and listen to the original.” I think a lot of songs are ingrained in his mind, and doing it any other way confuses him…causing him to get more pitchy.

Yes, monitoring at rehearsal is an issue. I run the sound, and I work hard to get a good mix for him. We try to keep the instruments below the vocals, but the rehearsal space is a small and lively room. I’ve given him a good set of headphones to use at rehearsal, which has helped a little bit. Gigs are no problem, we have low stage volume, he has his own monitor and mix with as much headroom as he wants. I will provide IEMs if I thought it might help. I’ve also though about slipping a Mic Mechanic pedal into his signal path, but that’s just putting a bandaid on it.

 

[4SG]

You've got a singer you like, that shows up prepared, and who's got "a powerful voice and good range." I don't know how plentiful lead singers are in SE Michigan but I live in Los Angeles and they're not a dime a dozen in this city of 4 million people. Before you show him the door I'd make every possible effort to resolve the issue. Especially for a "just for fun band" that's not even gigging yet.

 

[ArtechnikA]

...there's usually a part in just about every song that makes me cringe – it's typically a tendency to go for a high harmony note that he hears in his head instead of sticking to the melody...

Might it be as easy as saying "Don't do that - stick to the melody.." ? What's the lead singer doing trying to create a harmony part with himself?
Harmonies are for backup singers and the other instruments.
Stick to your part...

 

[scott sinner]

As a singer, agree heartily about the monitoring. I absolutely have no pitch issues at rehearsal or recording, but a bad club monitoring scenario (and bandmates that have poor sense of necessary stage volume) and I've heard a couple off notes in live recordings especially when I'm improvising the line a little (which again, I have no issue with normally).

 

[Bullitt5135]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounded to me as though he has good intonation most of the time, but is just stretching in spots and not hitting what he wants to hit in those instances. If he has good intonation most of the time, his ear is not the problem. If he doesn't, then yes, the others are right to suggest this isn't an easy fix.

I think you nailed it on the head. Good much of the time, off when he stretches. And he likes to stretch.

 

[LBS-bass]

I’m not sure he hears it. When i say something like “it sounds like you are jumping to the high harmony on the last word/note,” he’ll say something like “well, that’s how I’ve always sung it…I guess I can go back and listen to the original.” I think a lot of songs are ingrained in his mind, and doing it any other way confuses him…causing him to get more pitchy.

Sometimes with covers we singers end up doing what I call "car harmonies" which is where we sing along in the car doing a part that isn't in the song, and we can do it so often that it becomes second nature to just go there.

This isn't a terrible thing to do, depending on how much the band is open to reinterpretation vs. note-for-note, and if it's a harmony that's sung well it isn't a matter of intonation, it's a matter of not singing what's expected. It's also a skill that can be used to good advantage if part of the melody is out of someone's range. It's kind of important to make the distinction between singing a harmony and singing off-pitch.

An old boyfriend of mine once asked me why I "don't sing in tune" when I'm in the car. What he was really trying to ask was why I don't sing the melody. Some people are true harmonists and will just go there for fun and then out of habit, so your singer might need to sit down with the original recording to be reminded what the melody really is.

This may or may not be what he's doing but I thought I'd point it out as a possibility.