To be fair, nobody should pretend to be Michael Bolton.
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Singer has pitch issues — fire the drummer?
- Thread starter Bullitt5135
- Start date
As a classically trained tenor, I can already guess what the problems may be with how he approach his notes (especially high notes). But you guys already nailed it. He needs to spend time honing his technique. If he doesn’t allow enough air before he sings, and other technical things like vowel first, he’s guaranteed to go flat (especially high notes).
Another thing to try is stop the song at that point, and then have him sing the part with no accompaniment. If he's off, there will be no hiding it.
How did you get from a lengthy rundown of a dodgy singer to firing the drummer?
Maybe telling the singer that you can't start gigging until he's learn to keep to the right notes will work. Maybe he's singing the right notes but not in the right order.
Maybe telling the singer that you can't start gigging until he's learn to keep to the right notes will work. Maybe he's singing the right notes but not in the right order.
From personal experience, on songs with high harmonies in the original but ( too often) nobody else in the band singing the high parts reliably, i gravitate toward trying to cover multiple parts single-handed (think chorus of MJ’s Last Dance). A recipe for trouble. Not only am I singing the known part from the original but I’m also freelancing part in a slightly different range. If that makes sense, at least. He is probably trying to improve the performance. Helping him find some guardrails while recognizing his good intent may be well received. At least it works for me when I’m the one doing it…
OP UPDATE – We had a band meeting last night without the singer, who was out of town. We spent a good hour considering all the pros and cons. In the end, we all agreed that to get to where we want to be, this is not the right singer for our band. One guy was adamant that the singer is killing us; another guy simply feels this phase of the band has run its course and he was ready to move on; I was the devil's advocate for giving him some more time; the last guy was Switzerland. In the end, we agreed that despite being a great guy, the singer didn't check enough boxes – we want a band, not a school of rock project. A large factor is that the singer's wheelhouse is pretty limited – 70's classic rock – and we don't want to be stuck in any one genre/era. Better to tear off the band-aid now than waste several months trying to make it work.
To answer a few comments that have come up in this thread...
– Yes, I have multitrack recordings from our last gig, as well as a number of videos from our first three gigs. If the singer listened to them, it's apparent he didn't learn much from them.
– Regarding volume levels...we rehearse in a small room, and we play as quietly as possible. The drummer uses hot rods and plays with a light touch and restraint. I'm using a 20W practice amp running at 50%. The guitars can get to be a little much, by we try to keep them in check. For the last 6 weeks, the singer has been using headphones and has said that he can hear himself fine. At gigs, we maintain a low stage volume, and everyone has their own monitor mix and wedge. At our last gig, the singer was loud and clear in the wedges. There's always room for improvement, and to that end, I am moving the band toward IEMs and controlling their own mix.
– Is the singer aware of his shortcomings? No, I don't think so. He knows he's inexperienced when it comes to stagecraft and stage presence, but I think he has an overinflated opinion of his singing ability.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I really appreciate all the helpful and enlightening insights.
To answer a few comments that have come up in this thread...
– Yes, I have multitrack recordings from our last gig, as well as a number of videos from our first three gigs. If the singer listened to them, it's apparent he didn't learn much from them.
– Regarding volume levels...we rehearse in a small room, and we play as quietly as possible. The drummer uses hot rods and plays with a light touch and restraint. I'm using a 20W practice amp running at 50%. The guitars can get to be a little much, by we try to keep them in check. For the last 6 weeks, the singer has been using headphones and has said that he can hear himself fine. At gigs, we maintain a low stage volume, and everyone has their own monitor mix and wedge. At our last gig, the singer was loud and clear in the wedges. There's always room for improvement, and to that end, I am moving the band toward IEMs and controlling their own mix.
– Is the singer aware of his shortcomings? No, I don't think so. He knows he's inexperienced when it comes to stagecraft and stage presence, but I think he has an overinflated opinion of his singing ability.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I really appreciate all the helpful and enlightening insights.
Record rehearsals. Then edit down the recordings for specific instances you are talking about. If you don't know how to do this, hand your phone to the nearest 12 year old and they'll do it for you.
(I'm not kidding about that. My 10 and 12 year old daughters make movies with soundtrack music and edit them all the time using my wife's iPhone. I have no idea where they learned to do it. But they do it just for kicks.)
Then let the singer hear those recordings. If he doesn't hear a problem, all hope is lost. If he hears the problem, then you can have a frank discussion about sticking to the regular vocal parts and not trying to hit "the big note" all the time.
Don't wind up like this.
Bobby Kimball - Africa - YouTube
Yep. You’re ‘that guy.’
And I politely have to disagree with you on nearly everything you’re saying. Pitch is extremely important. Singers (good singers at least) aren’t always flat. And when they are - NO - “we” don’t love it. So speak for yourself.
As far as the rest goes, I think you’re mistaking form for actual substance. And while stage flash and enthusiasm may sell well in some segments of the corporate music world, it still doesn’t make it good or desirable, any more than the popularity of fast food (i.e. hot, quick, and cheap) makes it healthy or gourmet.
how many posts here on TB say the opposite and people call to get rid of the singer. I'd say teach him to be a musician, and help him understand his instrument is his voice. everyone needs to practice and get better. If he learns that, it sounds like you have a better singer than most.
oh and fire the guitar player. (had to... lol)
Believe me, we gave this serious consideration. But at the end of the day, we all feel strongly we would be having this same discussion in four months – even if we gave the guy time and guidance to work on it. He's a good guy and a decent singer, but his lack of experience and inability to recognize his shortcomings means he's simply not the right singer for our band. We may have started out as a "just for fun basement band," but things change and evolve.
It sometimes sells to drunks in bars. I've heard some very poor singers who can whip up an audience in a dive bar, because no one's really there for the quality of the music. But if you want to go beyond that, you need a bit more finesse, and if you don't have the ability to intonate, you're going to be quickly shown the door at that level. So what's being said might appear correct to some folks, but it's not correct in my world.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
The vast majority of people listening care far more about vocals than anything else.
Yep. The casual listener won't notice of care about the guitarists tone, if the tempo drifts or if you don't play the bass line note-for-note, but they will notice and comment on a pitchy singer.
If a singer is pitchy and many many are, they either dont or cant hear, which is bad, or they dont know the extent of their range.
Both are deal breakers if not fixed by sorting out p.a or monitoring.
If someone cant hear what you hear, then it is unlikely fixable.
Live with it or move on.
Having said that, I'd say 80% of the singers around here have problems so finding a very good one is very hard.
Both are deal breakers if not fixed by sorting out p.a or monitoring.
If someone cant hear what you hear, then it is unlikely fixable.
Live with it or move on.
Having said that, I'd say 80% of the singers around here have problems so finding a very good one is very hard.
That makes me wonder... Was he drunk? Was he high? Did he use pitch-correction back in the day?
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