I did this for the first time yesterday and hit every note perfectly. It was amazing. I didn’t try to sing yet.
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Singing over complicated basslines
- Thread starter David Sutkin
- Start date
I find it interesting that Esperanza recommends Bach Inventions. I started out on classical piano, and playing Bach's Two-Part Inventions certainly helps develop hand independence. Maybe that's why I can sing and play bass at the same time, though I certainly would not put myself in the same league as the inimitable Ms. Spalding.
Forget it, not human. THAT good on bass, THAT good on vocals, and that beautiful?? No way she's from this planet.
Well.. my method is
1) know both parts by heart (bass and singing)
2) be very accurate on the rythm you want in your groove,
3) be absolutely aware of where each note on each instrument lands in each measure (subdevide)
4) combine überslowly like.. 30 bpm to get the feeling of where the odd rythms (if any) land and to get the feeling of the sound of bass vs voice
5) speed up until satisfied
Problem with playing bass and singing though is that the audience will more likely notice if you skip a beat than if you were a guitar or a piano player
1) know both parts by heart (bass and singing)
2) be very accurate on the rythm you want in your groove,
3) be absolutely aware of where each note on each instrument lands in each measure (subdevide)
4) combine überslowly like.. 30 bpm to get the feeling of where the odd rythms (if any) land and to get the feeling of the sound of bass vs voice
5) speed up until satisfied
Problem with playing bass and singing though is that the audience will more likely notice if you skip a beat than if you were a guitar or a piano player
I really hope this doesn't oversimplify things but the way I do it is to make the vocal line and the bass line one. I match every word, note and rhythm between the bass part and vocal line in time until it flows.
I figure out what notes on the bass and what words I can sing at the same time, even if it's one note and part of a word and just do it over and over and then piece it together. You'd be surprised how fast you develop the ability to do longer and more complex parts doing it this way.
Another thing I do is talk the vocal line while playing the bass line.That way you get the rhythm matched first and your brain doesn't stress on working out pitches, then once you have the foundation of the rhythm, add the pitches.
I figure out what notes on the bass and what words I can sing at the same time, even if it's one note and part of a word and just do it over and over and then piece it together. You'd be surprised how fast you develop the ability to do longer and more complex parts doing it this way.
Another thing I do is talk the vocal line while playing the bass line.That way you get the rhythm matched first and your brain doesn't stress on working out pitches, then once you have the foundation of the rhythm, add the pitches.
I haven't read all 12 pages.
Most singing bass players make either the vocal or (more commonly) the bass part more mechanical or simple in live performances. Peter Cetera, Sting, Sir Paul, etc. Jack Bruce, and Ms. Spalding seem to have a highly improvisational approach to both, as if they have two brains-one wholly devoted to singing and one to playing the bass. Jack's live performances of things like "Politician", "Letter Of Thanks", etc. are superb examples.
All the singing bassists interviews I've seen that address this have the same advice as playig fretless in tune- there is simply no alternative to putting in focused consistent practice work.
Most singing bass players make either the vocal or (more commonly) the bass part more mechanical or simple in live performances. Peter Cetera, Sting, Sir Paul, etc. Jack Bruce, and Ms. Spalding seem to have a highly improvisational approach to both, as if they have two brains-one wholly devoted to singing and one to playing the bass. Jack's live performances of things like "Politician", "Letter Of Thanks", etc. are superb examples.
All the singing bassists interviews I've seen that address this have the same advice as playig fretless in tune- there is simply no alternative to putting in focused consistent practice work.
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Yeah, for me at least, this works, always start with interleaving the rhythms until they're one thing.
it does become second nature but it takes a lot of thinking, feeling. I'm very average on bass, but I can play Stevie Wonder's I Wish and sing it - you find where the notes line up with syllables or where the space is for your note. As far as rock goes, the vocals and bass lines of McCartney, Zeppelin, Geddy (old Rush) line up pretty nicely. Practice those.
Practice. Slow it way down and do it again and again.....I know this works. When you finally get it you wonder why it was so hard at first. There is no substitute for practice!
I am a hobbyist who has been playing bass & singing for years. At first, it was difficult, but with time (years) & practice, I got better at it (and I will never stop practicing). On bass you have to focus on locking the rhythm section down with both emotion, and accuracy. On vocals, you need to focus on singing on key, and with emotion (and remembering the words - Trick : Write out difficult lyrics BIG on a big sheet of paper and stick it on the stage in front of you ).
I emulate my heroes Paul Mc Cartney, Chris Squire, Sting, Peter Cetera, John Wetton, Greg Lake, Jason Scheff, and Mark King. In doing so, I have a goal, or a target to reach for in my playing & singing.
I think you have to practice the two things separately, and also together, as a separate thing. Vocal training is a big help, and pre-gig vocal exercises can help your voice really shine through. Bass training is a plus, and some finger exercises before gigs can also warm you up. Also, placing the amp' in such a way that you can hear what you are playing easily helps, as does ensuring you hear the key elements of the drums (especially the kick, hi-hats, and snare).
To me, some time with a metronome is a big help in helping to discern, and address timing fluctuations during a song/gig.
The best compliment is if people credit you as both a good bassist, and a good vocalist. Funny, but, at best, I think you should be able to perform as only a bassist, or only a vocalist, and do a good job. Also, I think nobody can truly call him/herself a singer if he/she cannot sing backup/harmonies. Singing harmonies should also be a goal.
The bottom line is that nothing can be achieved without dedicated practice, and that should NEVER stop.
I emulate my heroes Paul Mc Cartney, Chris Squire, Sting, Peter Cetera, John Wetton, Greg Lake, Jason Scheff, and Mark King. In doing so, I have a goal, or a target to reach for in my playing & singing.
I think you have to practice the two things separately, and also together, as a separate thing. Vocal training is a big help, and pre-gig vocal exercises can help your voice really shine through. Bass training is a plus, and some finger exercises before gigs can also warm you up. Also, placing the amp' in such a way that you can hear what you are playing easily helps, as does ensuring you hear the key elements of the drums (especially the kick, hi-hats, and snare).
To me, some time with a metronome is a big help in helping to discern, and address timing fluctuations during a song/gig.
The best compliment is if people credit you as both a good bassist, and a good vocalist. Funny, but, at best, I think you should be able to perform as only a bassist, or only a vocalist, and do a good job. Also, I think nobody can truly call him/herself a singer if he/she cannot sing backup/harmonies. Singing harmonies should also be a goal.
The bottom line is that nothing can be achieved without dedicated practice, and that should NEVER stop.
I could practice for about 5 lifetimes and still not approach anywhere near that good.
Here's your proof that playing guitar is easier than playing bass
Yes - Suite: Judy Blue Eyes and Hotel CA were a challenge - but they turned-out to be so much damn fun to perform - maybe BECAUSE they didn't come easy. It's just a great feeling to play some interesting grooves and sing over it all - that's why we do it ...... best job in the world.
Oh, two more things - (1) SEEMING TO JAM WHILE PLAYING A BASS PART & SINGING, and (2) ACTUALLY JAMMING WHILE PLAYING A BASS PART & SINGING : Here is what I do that works for me.
1) To SEEM TO JAM while playing a bass part : I CREATE the jam part so that it fits with the drums, chords, and vocal melody, and then I rehearse it AS IF IT WAS the part in the song. If you do this WELL, it should get you compliments from bandmates AND the audience.
2) To ACTUALLY JAM A BASS PART SPONTANEOUSLY WHILE SINGING & PLAYING THE BASS : I take a song in which there is space between the vocal lines, and after I play the real bassline part WHILE SINGING, I take a jam/improvise while connecting to the other vocal line. For example, a cover I do is The Police, "Spirits In The Material World". After doing the first verse & chorus as is "on record", I sing the lines of the second verse over the real bassline, and throw in some jams BEFORE the second vocal line - EXAMPLE : Line 1 of verse 2 - "Our so-called leaders speak"... jam/improv' connecting to Line 2 of verse 2 - "With words they try to jail you" ... jam/improv' connecting to Line 3, and so on.
MOST things other humans do are NOT impossible if you take the time & effort to learn how to do it. Of course, you MUST know the (popular & maybe unpopular) scales, and have some idea of applying them, so that your improvised runs make sense (locking with the rhythm, chords & melody of the song). Sting does this, and also the great Eric Clapton does this in the later movements of some songs he sings & plays (guitar) on. Oh, and if you think it's difficult, it's not really. It's just that you HAVE to put in the time training on both vocals, AND the bass. In other words, you have to take the narrow, pot-holed, & muddy backroads on your way to the open highway
1) To SEEM TO JAM while playing a bass part : I CREATE the jam part so that it fits with the drums, chords, and vocal melody, and then I rehearse it AS IF IT WAS the part in the song. If you do this WELL, it should get you compliments from bandmates AND the audience.
2) To ACTUALLY JAM A BASS PART SPONTANEOUSLY WHILE SINGING & PLAYING THE BASS : I take a song in which there is space between the vocal lines, and after I play the real bassline part WHILE SINGING, I take a jam/improvise while connecting to the other vocal line. For example, a cover I do is The Police, "Spirits In The Material World". After doing the first verse & chorus as is "on record", I sing the lines of the second verse over the real bassline, and throw in some jams BEFORE the second vocal line - EXAMPLE : Line 1 of verse 2 - "Our so-called leaders speak"... jam/improv' connecting to Line 2 of verse 2 - "With words they try to jail you" ... jam/improv' connecting to Line 3, and so on.
MOST things other humans do are NOT impossible if you take the time & effort to learn how to do it. Of course, you MUST know the (popular & maybe unpopular) scales, and have some idea of applying them, so that your improvised runs make sense (locking with the rhythm, chords & melody of the song). Sting does this, and also the great Eric Clapton does this in the later movements of some songs he sings & plays (guitar) on. Oh, and if you think it's difficult, it's not really. It's just that you HAVE to put in the time training on both vocals, AND the bass. In other words, you have to take the narrow, pot-holed, & muddy backroads on your way to the open highway
You read my mind.
Was the first song I immediately thought about. That live version shows it even better.
I think he simplified the verses slightly live vs. studio. I can understand why.
I'm still of the opinion that there are two types of bassist: those that can (even eventually) sing while they play; and ... me.
Like BK I'm fine with a guitar though.
Like BK I'm fine with a guitar though.
