Slightly different........

[friendlybass]

Nah, I'm in a small-ish college town. It's possible to get a paying gig around here for about 150 to 200 bucks to split between the band. (Covers or originals, but original gigs are harder of course) but honestly, bar owners are happy to run the jukebox for nothing or pay a D.J. 50 bucks. That's their standard line.

Yeah that can be really tough, a good friend of mine just moved to a teeny tiny mountain town with just 2 bars, both on the same street, and when he threw a little old man jam band together and offered to play if they got paid the laughed him out the door.
There's places where music pays well and places it doesn't I guess

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Years from now we all thank you for starting this and making it the new standard. I hope it catches on!!!

Yes, because bands have been getting ~$200 a night SINCE THE FRIGGIN' '80s and still are thanks to folks like the OP.

 

[fhm555]

...Playing for free is for worthy benefits and church...

Why church? They make money off the crowd you are playing to. I understand they have expenses, so does every other venue featuring live music.

Please know i'm not trying to take pot shots at religion, i'm not churched but i've got faith, i just don't see how any enterprise that makes money expects musicians to perform for free, or why musicians who refuse to play in other venues that make money off their patrons will make an exception for church.

Worthy causes, i'm there no questions asked, as far as that goes i play about as much for nothing as i do for money, but i don't play for money making venues for nothing. My giving back is music with my family and friends, rehearsals, and such, but if you want me to saddle up, arrive at the appointed time and be part of a staged production in a venue collecting money from the audience, it only seems fair the band should share in that revenue.

 

[Matt O]

Girlfriends and wives never put prostitutes out of business. Bar bands, even full-on KISS tributes with pyro, never put KISS out of business. Free legal aid never put lawyers out of business. Local restaurants are still busy when the local car dealership gives away free hot dogs.

I'm not saying playing for free is smart but I am saying the idea that he's undermining the rest of us is pure BS.

People will always be willing to pay, and pay a premium, for quality hassle-free professional services.

If there's any harm in what the OP is doing, it's to the reputation of live music in bars and bar bands in general. Far too many are too loud, unprofessional and generally crap musically. Reflects poorly on bar bands and on establishments that hire them.

Hopefully the OP's band is better and smarter than that. Good luck and have fun!

I totally hear this and I agree in most cases. But in my last post, I brought up photography which has a landscape quite different now than just ten years ago. It's due in large part to anybody with $200 worth of digital gear agreeing to shoot sessions, weddings, print, etc for free or next to nothing. Most of this is solicited with the you'll get "great exposure" tag line. In essence what it does is drive down the quality of work people are expected to provide while simultaneously drive down the fees a decent photographer who has put time, effort, and money can expect to charge. Can you tell I'm also a Photog? I was taken as a date to wedding where the couple knew of my skills and actually asked if I would bring my camera, and "you know, be the photographer". What?

I'm also a custom furniture designer/maker and had a meeting with a potential client not long ago where she actually whipped out an ikea catalog to show me why my quote was out of line. I walked.

But we are talking music here and one band playing a bar for free is not the slippery slope some are making it out to be, like you said. Playing music for free has been happening for ever and ever. Just not something I'm down with.

 

[Nev375]

I can respect this point but then we have another issue. If I'm taking someone elses opportunities by having a job and playing, what am I supposed to do? Stop playing live?

Well, there's the church gigs, there's charity benefits, there's open mics, there's busking for tips.

Other than that, i would learn to negotiate some fees. You've already given the freebie demo.

Its actually harder to convince someone to start paying you when you've already demonstrated that you are willing to work for nothing. ...just my opinion, of course.

 

[Nev375]

Girlfriends and wives never put prostitutes out of business.

Ouch. Don't let your girlfriend or wife see that's how you feel about their relationship or you'll be needing a lot more paying gigs to help keep the prostitutes in business.

 

[Nev375]

Why church? They make money off the crowd you are playing to. I understand they have expenses, so does every other venue featuring live music.

Please know i'm not trying to take pot shots at religion, i'm not churched but i've got faith, i just don't see how any enterprise that makes money expects musicians to perform for free, or why musicians who refuse to play in other venues that make money off their patrons will make an exception for church.

Worthy causes, i'm there no questions asked, as far as that goes i play about as much for nothing as i do for money, but i don't play for money making venues for nothing. My giving back is music with my family and friends, rehearsals, and such, but if you want me to saddle up, arrive at the appointed time and be a part if a staged production in a venue collecting money from the audience, it only seems fair the band should share in that revenue.

Well, ideally (IMO) churches are not supposed to be a for-profit entity. Every dime they make is supposed to be for helping and healing the needy and educating the masses about their vision of morality.

You know... like what Jesus did, but in using the power of money. Redistribution of wealth but on a voluntary basis.

But, like people, churches have different interpretations of their role. Many DO indeed pay their musicians as they feel they are purchasing a service which has value to support their purpose.

But from my personal point of view as a musician the value of my service IS a contribution to their ministry. My hope is that my contributions are not wasted in vain.

 

[StayLow]

Ouch. Don't let your girlfriend or wife see that's how you feel about their relationship or you'll be needing a lot more paying gigs to help keep the prostitutes in business.

Prostitutes cost a LOT less time, money and emotional capital than relationships or even most single dates.

That said, I am not at all a fan of hookers but I sure don't just accept whomever is willing to give it away for "free". I paid my dues and I have a brand to maintain, and demand great value added for the time, money and effort I also put in. If more men looked at it this way and towed that line, there'd be a lot less gold-digging whores making out like bandits. Funny thing - this post could just as easily apply to the music biz, the photography biz, etc. etc.

 

[Nev375]

Prostitutes cost a LOT less time, money and emotional capital than relationships or even most single dates.

That said, I am not at all a fan of hookers but I sure don't just accept whomever is willing to give it away for "free". I paid my dues and I have a brand to maintain, and demand great value added for the time, money and effort I also put in. If more men looked at it this way and towed that line, there'd be a lot less gold-digging whores making out like bandits. Funny thing - this post could just as easily apply to the music biz, the photography biz, etc. etc.

I'm fascinated that this is your response. I have so many questions about your past relationships, but that would be a big derail.

 

[Helix]

Prostitutes cost a LOT less time, money and emotional capital than relationships or even most single dates.

That said, I am not at all a fan of hookers but I sure don't just accept whomever is willing to give it away for "free". I paid my dues and I have a brand to maintain, and demand great value added for the time, money and effort I also put in. If more men looked at it this way and towed that line, there'd be a lot less gold-digging whores making out like bandits. Funny thing - this post could just as easily apply to the music biz, the photography biz, etc. etc.

That is the worst respone Ive ever seen on this forum

 

[LT131]

Cover band = pay
Originals band = wings + beer

I personally LOVE wings and beer, so I'd be content with that.

Me too! And you can even keep the wings!

And to Mr Lowness..I am assuming you are in America and are American. Do what you and your bandmates want to do, live the way you want to live. Put on a good show and enjoy the moment I hope yall get paid someday IF that is your goal.

 

[Volunteerk9]

Thanks for being one more person making it harder for bands to get paid for working.

Ok, I'll bite....

Since when its it the OP's responsibility to insure that you can pay your bills? If anyone chooses to pursue a career in music then that is their choice. If anyone chooses to play for beer and fries - thats their choice. Go for it OP! I highly doubt a group of gang banging jazz musicians are going to do a drive by on your house due to the pay arrangement.

 

[JimmyM]

Ok, I'll bite....

Since when its it the OP's responsibility to insure that you can pay your bills? If anyone chooses to pursue a career in music then that is their choice. If anyone chooses to play for beer and fries - thats their choice. Go for it OP! I highly doubt a group of gang banging jazz musicians are going to do a drive by on your house due to the pay arrangement.

You get what you pay for.

 

[mwbassace]

I'm curious to know how many people can name the exact dollar amount they bring into a venue when they play a paid gig. I get why people are sticklers for being paid for their time, but the whole premise of being paid is that you are bringing the venue significantly more money than they are giving you. If a band can't guarantee that then they have no value and deserve no pay. Right?

I agree w/this in part but a contractor isn't expected to bring in business per se, but help create an ambience that, yes attracts, but more so keeps patrons there (especially considering how DUI laws have effected the business) which translates into sales. A plumber isn't expected to bring people in, but if the the toilets don't work they ain't stickin around.

 

[Kevan Campbell]

Well OP, you can certainly do this to start playing in a bar but I'm betting that this bar will never pay your band since you've just shown the manager/owner that you don't value your time and have zero confidence in your business (your band). I'd further say that since we know that bar owners talk to each other you're going to have a tough time from here on out booking any paying gigs with this band (and potentially any other band that you're involved in booking shows for) and once other musicians in your scene find out about this tactic it will be nigh impossible to find bands that will share shows with you.

To say nothing of the overall damage this does to your music scene in your town...

 

[hsech]

All the BBQ you can eat and beer you can drink..................... what could go wrong?

 

[StayLow]

That is the worst respone Ive ever seen on this forum

And yours is one of the most perplexing responses I've received in my life. I can only surmise you're reading what I wrote through a very distorted lens, because to me it's self-evidently true and empowering.

Off topic, so have the last word if you wish but since I may have offended some people including perhaps Joe Nerve who I'm a huge fan of and respect very much (and he's who I originally quoted and riffed off of), and since one person asked, let me say this in the spirt of clarification and apology for my own role in any misunderstanding.

My parents were together 60 years, happily and respectfully, went from literal rags to nearly riches, travelled the world, asked for no favors and took no #### from anyone. A fine example I always strive to live up to, so I more than earn my way in any relationship - musical, business or personal it's all the same. That takes exponentially far more effort, time and expense than simply cracking open your wallet and lying back with a sense of entitlement!

In turn I expect as good as I give so I have a rich history of long-term relationships with successful, educated, attractive, fit and happy women, and I remain very close with every single one of my exes. You probably couldn't pay one enough to talk #### about our relationship past or present. Same goes for my colleagues in business and music. This is of paramount importance to me, and not something I risk or allow others to risk.

I've never heard of anyone, in any facet of life, be happy or successful with any other approach or attitude.

So, guys who bend over backwards and sell themselves short for women looking for an easy or free ride don't cost me a single date. Similarly, and back on topic, no novice band willing to play for free on a weeknight in an establishment that aspires to provide their customers what they can get for free costs me one single gig nor one single dime.

All good. Plenty of fish in the sea. And paying gigs. Live and let die.

And as far as playing for free goes, if you factor all the lessons, strings, basses, amps, cabs, pedals, loss and theft of same, batteries, parking fees, parking tickets, vehicle wear & tear, gas, insurance, cables, rehearsal rooms, etc. etc. you've gotta be gigging nightly at a good rate of pay or publishing songs that regularly crack the top-10 to not effectively be playing for free or more likely at a loss.

Then there's opportunity cost. Most people could easily get ahead in their job if they weren't on FB or TB all day at their computer, or could get a law degree with the time wasted online or learning songs. It's a choice.

 

[marmadaddy]

OP and those who think like him are free to play for a beer and a burger and they're under no obligation to anyone to maintain prices in the market for our services.

I have to get paid to play but I don't worry about competition from them. First, they don't last, because they tend to find out that the hours suck, there are a million PITA details to deal with and gigging costs money. Second, it's been my experience that they don't feel any obligation to deliver a professional act so they don't. That weeds them out real quick. Third, people that aren't worth paying aren't worth going to see.

The way to deal with them is to not worry about them and focus on being worth the money you're asking.

 

[JimmyM]

OP and those who think like him are free to play for a beer and a burger and they're under no obligation to anyone to maintain prices in the market for our services.

I have to get paid to play but I don't worry about competition from them. First, they don't last, because they tend to find out that the hours suck, there are a million PITA details to deal with and gigging costs money. Second, it's been my experience that they don't feel any obligation to deliver a professional act so they don't. That weeds them out real quick. Third, people that aren't worth paying aren't worth going to see.

The way to deal with them is to not worry about them and focus on being worth the money you're asking.

I totally agree. Musicians are way too focused on comparing themselves to others. I never compare myself to a band that plays for free because of exactly this. They do zero to affect my bottom line, and like I said before, you get what you pay for.

 

[TonyP-]

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