SMV extorted by Spanish Border Patrol!

[IBWT]

Phil Smith, it seems that you haven't read any of my posts, you are falling into the same misunderstandings over and over again.

First of all, stop saying that those are border guards. THOSE ARE NOT BORDER GUARDS and that IS NOT A BORDER. Those are Ertzainas (Basque Police) and that is a checkpoint for commercial bus and truck drivers. There are lots of them all over Spain, not only at the borders. Why did they stop the bus? because they have to make random checks. Why the fine is so high? because its purpose is to dissuade commercial drivers to drive continuously for too much time.

The office is closed because 14:00 (as you can see in the first video) is office closing time for lunch in Spain.

I don't know how corrupt are policemen in the states, but in Spain we trust our Police, Ertzaintza, Guardia Civil and Mossos D'Esquadra, that is why a law enforcer can legally charge a fine in a vehicle. If your cops are corrupt it's not our problem. They got a receipt for the fine! how corrupt does that sound?

Maybe the guys on the bus think they're being robbed. Maybe if I go to the US and a policeman puts me in the jail for having a small amount of pot I would think he is a fascist, but whithout knowing the laws of a foreign coutry and its language i wouldn't put my assumptions on Youtube where everyone can think that Spain is a third-world country with corrupt police or the US is a fascist country.

 

[Phil Smith]

Oh I forgot to add that most likely recording that stop is illegal and if it happened in the US its a felony and results in you being put on several watch lists in addition to a large fine and jailtime.

You are wrong here. The recording in question wouldn't be subject to the wiretaping statute because the audio of what the officers are saying can at no time be heard since Vic is video recording them through the window of the bus. You don't hear any conversations between the officers and the tour manager or Stanley.

 

[Phil Smith]

Phil Smith, it seems that you haven't read any of my posts, you are falling into the same misunderstandings over and over again.

First of all, stop saying that those are border guards. THOSE ARE NOT BORDER GUARDS and that IS NOT A BORDER. Those are Ertzainas (Basque Police) and that is a checkpoint for commercial bus and truck drivers. There are lots of them all over Spain, not only at the borders. Why did they stop the bus? because they have to make random checks. Why the fine is so high? because its purpose is to dissuade commercial drivers to drive continuously for too much time.

The point of contention is that the officer(s) are making a bogus claim, that's the concept that you can't seem to wrap your head around.

The office is closed because 14:00 (as you can see in the first video) is office closing time for lunch in Spain.

I don't know how corrupt are policemen in the states, but in Spain we trust our Police, Ertzaintza, Guardia Civil and Mossos D'Esquadra, that is why a law enforcer can legally charge a fine in a vehicle. If your cops are corrupt it's not our problem. They got a receipt for the fine! how corrupt does that sound?

People trust the police here as well and there is corruption the two things are mutually exclusive. Are you asserting there's no corrupt police in Spain? I find that notion to be rediculous on it's face.

Maybe the guys on the bus think they're being robbed. Maybe if I go to the US and a policeman puts me in the jail for having a small amount of pot I would think he is a fascist, but whithout knowing the laws of a foreign coutry and its language i wouldn't put my assumptions on Youtube where everyone can think that Spain is a third-world country with corrupt police or the US is a fascist country.

Corrupt police do not only exist in 3rd world countries, this is flawed reasoning on your part. People all over the world are corrupt and some of those people are officials, be it police, politicians, judges.

You must be afraid that people might view Spain as a 3rd world country which is why you keep harping on this point.

http://towncriernewspaper.wordpress.com/2008/05/12/police-chief-jailed-in-corruption-scandal/

What has been described as the biggest case of police corruption in Spain’s history began to unravel in Coslada on the outskirts of Madrid last week, with the arrest of the chief of the Local Police and 25 agents on charges of blackmail, threatening behaviour, complicity with the Rumanian mafia and physical attacks on citizens. The arrests followed a three-month investigation of a prostitution network run from Rumania. When Madrid’s Judicial Police started questioning the Rumanian prostitutes they began to talk about the police in Coslada who, the women said, forced them to give free sex and also threatened to deport them if they did not give them a cut of their takings. The investigating police began to tap telephones and discovered that the Local Police were also visiting bars and restaurants in the area to demand money “if they wanted to stay open” or to put tables and chairs out on the pavement in the summer.

 

[IBWT]

What bogus claim?

The replacement driver says he is being fined because he drove too many hours 3 weeks ago. He claims that he cannot be fined because he is the replacement driver, so he cannot be checked by the police according to the european law.

THAT IS WRONG.

According to the spanish law (there is no such thing as "european law", only agreements between countries), the replacement driver can be checked by the police for every activity in the last 28 days. I have linked the law for anyone who can read spanish.

That is why the bus company assumes the responsability as Marcus says in its website, because it is one of their drivers, NOT SMV, who has been fined, NOT robbed, and finally NOT by the spanish border police.

Victor's video is a complete misunderstanding.

 

[jollygiantchris]

You are wrong here. The recording in question wouldn't be subject to the wiretaping statute because the audio of what the officers are saying can at no time be heard since Vic is video recording them through the window of the bus. You don't hear any conversations between the officers and the tour manager or Stanley.

Incorrect, I have personally called it in and seen people being detained for it at the airport. In the US it is illegal to record the feds security procedures which includes searches. It has nothing to do with any wiretapping laws whatsoever as it is a national security issue not a privacy one. I am unsure if this applies to local police however, I rather doubt it. I also want to state that I have not seen this video yet because I am at work just felt the need to comment.

I also don't see why European federal authorities would be any different. And I can honestly say that due to the more frequent terror attacks in Europe than the US that the regulations on this are more stringent.

 

[Implosion]

What bogus claim?

The replacement driver says he is being fined because he drove too many hours 3 weeks ago. He claims that he cannot be fined because he is the replacement driver, so he cannot be checked by the police according to the european law.

THAT IS WRONG.

According to the spanish law (there is no such thing as "european law", only agreements between countries), the replacement driver can be checked by the police for every activity in the last 28 days. I have linked the law for anyone who can read spanish.

That is why the bus company assumes the responsability as Marcus says in its website, because it is one of their drivers, NOT SMV, who has been fined, NOT robbed, and finally NOT by the spanish border police.

Victor's video is a complete misunderstanding.

+ 1000000 and with the exchange that's about 2800

 

[Marlat]

That is why the bus company assumes the responsability as Marcus says in its website, because it is one of their drivers, NOT SMV, who has been fined, NOT robbed, and finally NOT by the spanish border police.

Victor's video is a complete misunderstanding.

+1

The level of misplaced righteous indignation shown in this thread is off the chart. Its hillarious.

 

[GaryM]

In the US it is illegal to record the feds security procedures which includes searches I also don't see why European federal authorities would be any different. And I can honestly say that due to the more frequent terror attacks in Europe than the US that the regulations on this are more stringent.

I don't know about the law in Spain but in the UK:

Section 76 of the Counter Terrorism Act permits the arrest of anyone found "eliciting, publishing or communicating information" relating to members of the armed forces, intelligence services and police officers, which is "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism".

That means anyone taking a picture of one of those people could face a fine or a prison sentence of up to 10 years, if a link to terrorism is proved.

To me, this sounds less stringent than it being "illegal to record the feds security procedures" as a link to terrorism has to be proved.

 

[Toasted]

What central database are all of the traffic police in the EU member states using to check, whether or not some one has paid a fine for a past infraction i.e. 28 days ago? If there isn't any, this driver who is not even behind the wheel could logically be fined over and over again for the same thing.

Interpol?

 

[jollygiantchris]

I don't know about the law in Spain but in the UK:



To me, this sounds less stringent than it being "illegal to record the feds security procedures" as a link to terrorism has to be proved.

Thats interesting I figured it would be worse since there is more of a history of terrorism in Europe. But if you read that law you just quoted closely all they have to do is prove that what you recorded is "likely useful" to a terrorist, not that the person has a link to terrorists, to arrest you. Police vehicle search procedures certainly have a likely useful link to terrorism as a video may or may not help them hide contraband like IEDs. That law is a more wide ranging statement than you think.

Since my shift is nearing its end I need to actually finish my work so I'm unable to look up the pertinent US laws. If someone does I'd be curious what it actually says I read them when I got my job but all I took away from it was "its illegal call it in."

 

[IBWT]

Interpol?

In case that Interpol didn't care about this type of offense a simple receipt will do the work. Like the one the driver got from the ertzainas.

 

[IBWT]

For those new to this topic I have explained my point of view here:

http://tinyurl.com/mskeqb

 

[LilRay]

heres what Marcus had to say

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I'm positive that Marcus knows more about this incident than any of us Monday morning quarterbacks.Even though he was sleeping. Marcus' reply was that the bus company assumed the fine.

At this point the details are inconsequential. Although it appears SMV managers/promoters hired an errant tour company if infact the infraction is legit. SMV got any money they were out back, and that was the bottom line to me.

It's all good.

God Bless, Ray

 

[Phil Smith]

What bogus claim?

The replacement driver says he is being fined because he drove too many hours 3 weeks ago. He claims that he cannot be fined because he is the replacement driver, so he cannot be checked by the police according to the european law.

THAT IS WRONG.

Go back and listen to what he says. You've have misinterpreted. He makes a point of saying that they know without even checking.

According to the spanish law (there is no such thing as "european law", only agreements between countries), the replacement driver can be checked by the police for every activity in the last 28 days. I have linked the law for anyone who can read spanish.

Again, the driver said that they know without checking.

That is why the bus company assumes the responsability as Marcus says in its website, because it is one of their drivers, NOT SMV, who has been fined, NOT robbed, and finally NOT by the spanish border police.

Victor's video is a complete misunderstanding.

No, the bus company assumes responsibility because that's what they are supposed to do, this action was taken against the driver(s) of the bus. SMV says "WE" because of solidarity with the drivers that they have spent a lot of time with.

 

[zeb_bass]

Go back and listen to what he says. You've have misinterpreted. He makes a point of saying that they know without even checking.



Again, the driver said that they know without checking.



No, the bus company assumes responsibility because that's what they are supposed to do, this action was taken against the driver(s) of the bus. SMV says "WE" because of solidarity with the drivers that they have spent a lot of time with.

Well you not gettin it! He says they even didn´t have to check me.

What he wants to express that they checked him even though he was not the driver at this point.

Obviously there is a difference between german and spanish law.

Where in germany only the records of the driver can be checked, in spain also the records of the sub- driver get checked.

cheers

 

[kevteop]

In the US it is illegal to record the feds security procedures which includes searches. It has nothing to do with any wiretapping laws whatsoever as it is a national security issue not a privacy one. ...

I also don't see why European federal authorities would be any different.

It's now illegal to film or take photos of the police here in the UK without their consent. Apparently it's anti-terror legislation.

So whoever shot footage of the protestors being "kettled" at the G20 protests, and shot footage of the cop who killed Ian Tomlinson in cold blood, was breaking the law. Ridiculous.

 

[bajissta]

You guys have Gary Willis, who needs Victor Wooten?

Yeah!!!

 

[Uncle Vester]

I don't think it's not possible to check the records of the 2nd driver, even under German law. It has happened in the past that, when you had bigger groups of travellers and therefore 2 buses, the drivers would simply switch buses so it would appear as if they'd comply with the time regulations.

The 2000 Euros were probably a deposit for the penalty, since it is still a bit difficult to collect a fine from someone from another country, even within the European Union.
This is common practice in the EU - just think of the transit traffic from eastern europe.

 

[IBWT]

Well you not gettin it! He says they even didn´t have to check me.

What he wants to express that they checked him even though he was not the driver at this point.

Obviously there is a difference between german and spanish law.

Where in germany only the records of the driver can be checked, in spain also the records of the sub- driver get checked.

cheers

As far as I understand the conversation is:

D: "They say, I was over the time on my... I don't know, 3 weeks ago. They don't even have to check me, and they know it"

V: "the law says if you're not driving they don't check you, right? That's right, that's the european law"

What I and zeb_bass understand is that the driver says that police know they don't have to check him, but they check him. In his defense, Victor says that police can't check him because he is not driving, which is not correct because spanish law says that any driver in the bus can be checked, wether he/she is driving or not.

 

[Implosion]

And as a repetition: there is no such thing as the european law. Countries have their own laws.