SMV extorted by Spanish Border Patrol!

[Buogon]

Ah, a war of rotten attitudes! Whose is smellier?

No, seriously. You sound now like a reasonable fellow, so let me try to explain what ticked me off about your comment more than the others. Prepare for long-windedness!

First of all, I agree that bad things happen everywhere.

I mean no personal attack, it's just that your post was the perfect example how much of a jerk move is all this generalizing and then acting like you know everything about foreign matters. And that I can't stand.

You said, and I quote:



Your wording lumped pretty much every country in the world as "overseas" only then to act as an some kind of superior expert on how "those people" (everyone not in the U.S., apparently) live. Very badly, it seems! A lot worse cases! Doesn't it sound like "overseas" is a crappy place? It sure sounded like that me.

You didn't name names, you just vaguely implied badness in every single country except your own. It read and felt close-minded and xenophobic. If that wasn't your intention, than I apologize.

Also, it appeared to me like your main complaint was that "star status" wasn't enough to make authorities give people special treatment in "overseas" countries. That also annoyed me, because no "star" should be able to break the laws just because they're famous. It sounded to me like you meant "in my country stars can do anything, and that's the way it should be". That annoyed me even more! More failures in communication?

The "Mexico and Canada" was an attempt of humor on the extreme meaningless of that condescending "overseas" crap. What the heck does that mean anyway? Is Mexico overseas? Canada?

I could walk, Forrest Gump-style, right out of my home in Curitiba all the way to yours in New Jersey if I wanted (and, of course, the border police let me). Am I overseas? Does the Panama canal count as a sea?

You used a very lazy-minded, annoying generalization with the unfortunate choice of wording "life overseas is this and that". That's all. And talking as if you know all about the lives of foreign people from all over just because you've visited some places rubs me the wrong way. You're not going to see me saying "americans are such and such" because I saw something on TV. It's just not right.

Hey, sorry if I singled you out. Maybe you're right, this thread gave me bad vibes and it was unfair of me to just focus on two lines of, perhaps, badly worded but honest opinions. Your stuff wasn't even the bashiest! Feel free to think I'm thin headed, or thick headed, or whatever makes you happier.

What countries were you talking about, anyway? What did you actually mean by "this is the life overseas"? Who are "those people"? Maybe if you stop implying generalities and start explaining specifics your words won't have such a negative effect on easily-annoyed, excessively wordy guys like me. I just like a good debate.

I'm genuinely curious now about what bad things you have seen, and where, to post such a telling little comment on how bad things are elsewhere.

I can see you are a debater, and im sorry you seen things in a different way. What i do is make music and that is what i'm about. The details of where i have been and what i have seen is not what this thread is about ,and i will leave it like that. I do not seek a war of words with any one on TB. Every ones words do not agree with all people as been posted by others.

Once again i'm about making music .and don't care much about debating issues. I will have to end this with a

 

[Buogon]

I'll take that as a "yes" then.

Actually when I got pulled over by a Newark cop it was at Newark airport. I asked him "Is this Terminal B?", he said "Yeah pull over, your inspection sticker's out of date". It wasn't even Terminal B! What an *******. Sure the sticker was a month (actually a week) out of date, but I could've demonstrated the truck was OK without having to fly back to Newark two weeks later to take the documents to court.

I also had a Belmar cop show up at my home at 7am one morning with my pet pig in his car, and because my pig crapped in his car he decided I wasn't allowed to have a pig in that town. I offered to show him the local ordnances (I'd looked them up at the local PD and they'd printed them off for me, for just such an occasion) but he wasn't interested, he arranged a date in court instead. Another ******* who had no intention of showing up.

I've also had a NJ state trooper threaten to cuff me and take me down town because I told him I thought making me walk a straight line along a lane marking of the NJ turnpike wasn't safe.

Honestly your cops are the worst I've ever come across.

Sorry for your mishaps , besides the cop issues, did you have a good time in New Jersey ?

 

[Jay Terrien]

These videos are EPIC! If Stanley had a Real Madrid jersey on, none of this would have happened. I blame his Eagles hat.........

 

[JansenW]

The Blues Brothers would never let this happen to them!

 

[LilRay]

The Blues Brothers would never let this happen to them!

Spanish Nazis

NOTE: The above is a Blues Brothers movie reference. It Is a joke hence the smilies, and is in no way disrespect to those who are spanish.

Back to your regularly scheduled Soap Opera.

God Bless, Ray

 

[Zureta]

I can see you are a debater, and im sorry you seen things in a different way. What i do is make music and that is what i'm about. The details of where i have been and what i have seen is not what this thread is about ,and i will leave it like that. I do not seek a war of words with any one on TB. Every ones words do not agree with all people as been posted by others.

Once again i'm about making music .and don't care much about debating issues. I will have to end this with a

Well, if you must. Your comment was rather ambiguous, so it got me curious about what your true opinions are! Can't blame me for asking.

It's no surprise that people are going to react to something you post in an online discussion forum if they don't like what you said or don't understand what you mean. Debate is a natural consequence, and not necessarely a bad thing. That's the whole point of a discussion forum, isn't it?

Besides my joking about "war", a friendly clash of opinions can be a healthy, enlightening thing. If we all didn't care at all about debate, we might as well shut down the whole of TalkBass and put up a single page saying "PlayBass" on its place. That would actually be a useful reminder to stop wasting time online and go practice some more.

Anyhow, no hard feelings. I guess I'll just remain curious about what those mystery foreigners actually did to you to give you such a bad impression of whatever-place-you-actually-meant. But that's my problem, not yours!

Here's supporting your ending with a

 

[JansenW]

Spanish Nazis

NOTE: The above is a Blues Brothers movie reference. It Is a joke hence the smilies, and is in no way disrespect to those who are spanish.

Back to your regularly scheduled Soap Opera.

God Bless, Ray

+1
Just trying to lighten up the thread.

This would have been a great movie (and soundtrack) if they decided to make a run for it and ended up somewhere like Uzbekistan.

 

[Zureta]

I just wanted to point out that in the great state of Wisconsin when the state police pull you over if you are from another state they make you pay the fine on the spot or they impound your car. They also have the ability to charge in their cars. Mostly because everyone driving from Chicago to Milwaukee from IL didn't pay any tickets for many years.

Another reason why WI sucks. Go Bears

Kinda surprised this kinda sounds like it doesn't happen anywhere else in the US judging by how shocked a lot of my fellow Americans sound.

That's an interesting though. For all the shock and awe the apparent absurdity of the "pay on the spot" laws seem to inspire on folks, I can't really think of a better system in this context.

Sure, it looks damn shady, and if it happened in Brazil I would be totally suspicious of the cop's story. But would pay anyway, as part of a cunning "not getting shot in the face" strategy.

But it actually looks like a decent system providing it's a place where 1) people generally take the laws seriously, and 2) the cops generally aren't criminals. I would guess that it actually works fine in Spain, since from my knowledge western europe is not exactly a wretched hive of scum and villainy. And what else can they do, considering a bus over there can be three countries away in the next day?

Quick question for our knowledgeable USAsian friends: What would happen if the same situation happened in the U.S.? I mean, suppose a foreign non-U.S. resident commits a fineable traffic infraction inside the country?

1. Pay on the spot?
   
2. Do the cops say "No U.S. address? Then I'm sorry for the inconvenience sir, we cannot fine you, have a nice day" and let you go?
   
3. Do they FedEx the fine to your international address and get the Interpol to arrest you if you don't pay?
   
4. Instant deportation and blacklisting so you'll never cause trouble in american soil again?
   
5. Guantanamo?

Seriously, what happens?

 

[LilRay]

+1
Just trying to lighten up the thread.

This would have been a great movie (and soundtrack) if they decided to make a run for it and ended up somewhere like Uzbekistan.

Make a run for it, and end up thwarting nuclear war from North Korea using the Fodera yin yang as mojo ala "Spies Like Us"

Obama awards Bassits SMV for an undercover classified mission.

Classic

God Bless, Ray

 

[julo]

Well, if you must. Your comment was rather ambiguous, so it got me curious about what your true opinions are! Can't blame me for asking.

It's no surprise that people are going to react to something you post in an online discussion forum if they don't like what you said or don't understand what you mean. Debate is a natural consequence, and not necessarely a bad thing. That's the whole point of a discussion forum, isn't it?

Besides my joking about "war", a friendly clash of opinions can be a healthy, enlightening thing. If we all didn't care at all about debate, we might as well shut down the whole of TalkBass and put up a single page saying "PlayBass" on its place. That would actually be a useful reminder to stop wasting time online and go practice some more.

Anyhow, no hard feelings. I guess I'll just remain curious about what those mystery foreigners actually did to you to give you such a bad impression of whatever-place-you-actually-meant. But that's my problem, not yours!

Here's supporting your ending with a

People in the US don't debate as much as Europeans do, I find. I think it's cultural. And if you ever raise your voice, just a little bit because well you know you take that discussion at heart, it's over. They tend to avoid conflict (a lot). I think it's unconsciously because they are afraid of you going mental and pulling a gun.
While in EU (and FR in particular) it's a national activity to the point where it becomes ridiculous and a handicap: too much talking not enough doing. But I like debate and I miss it.

You should see what a political "debate" is. The politicians don't even talk and answer to each other. Very different!!

 

[IBWT]

These videos are EPIC! If Stanley had a Real Madrid jersey on, none of this would have happened. I blame his Eagles hat.........

A Real Madrid jersey in the Basque Country is worse than an Eagles hat

 

[Zureta]

People in the US don't debate as much as Europeans do, I find. I think it's cultural. They tend to avoid conflict. I think it's unconsciously because they are afraid of you going mental and pulling a gun.
While in EU (and FR in particular) it's a national activity to the point where it becomes ridiculous and a handicap: too much talking not enough doing. But I like debate and I miss it.

Interesting point of view. I don't think I've heard about that before.

As for me, I'm neither in the US nor European. I do have a double Brazilian/Italian citizenship because of my mother's ancestry, and did live one awesome year in Germany, but I'm physically and culturally from Brazil.

I guess I just enjoy reading people's opinions on topics I'm interested about. Even when I don't agree with them. Sometimes particularly when I disagree, those can be the most educational and/or amusing reads.

Talkbass is filled with people that have interesting opinions on all sorts of things. That's why I like it so much! Thanks, everyone!

 

[Zureta]

Make a run for it, and end up thwarting nuclear war from North Korea using the Fodera yin yang as mojo ala "Spies Like Us"

Obama awards Bassits SMV for an undercover classified mission.

Classic

God Bless, Ray

I'd totally watch that. Throw in some Morgan Freeman narration, and you'll have an epic bass movie, kinda like that non-Britney-Spears Crossroads one is an epic "blues guitar" movie.

 

[Winterpegbass]

I'm a big fan of SMV and their music but really.

Do some people in the US really think that their legal system is better than the sytems in other countries?

Do they really have a poor or limited understanding that things are different in other countries?

Say it isn't so.

Marcus seems more realistic in that he accepts that it is a matter for the courts to decide.

 

[LilRay]

Marcus seems more realistic in that he accepts that it is a matter for the courts to decide.

Your taking the guys (Vic,Stanley etc) knee jerk reaction as it was happening, as their "concrete" opinion. If I saw something like that, I'd probably draw the same conclusion they did. Having never gone through that before, or not fully knowing that countries laws.

People are assuming that all SMV participants should have had the presence of mind to say "maybe this is legal, maybe their right" all the while as this is unfolding live. People speaking languages you don't understand and you're left to believe what someone tells you.

Bottom line is it could be either way. Corruption is everywhere and misunderstanding of foreign law is everywhere.

God Bless, Ray

 

[willgroove2]

I'm a big fan of SMV and their music but really.

Do some people in the US really think that their legal system is better than the systems in other countries?

Do they really have a poor or limited understanding that things are different in other countries?

Say it isn't so.

Marcus seems more realistic in that he accepts that it is a matter for the courts to decide.

Not necessarily better but different,legal systems in other country's are not studied by Americans unless your studying law and even then usually only if you going into international law. Laws about the same thing can vary from state to state in the US so most people understand that their different in other country's.

But one other thing is that there is a history of African American musicians having issues while traveling both in and out of the states,I personally have experienced this and was schooled by older, more experienced musicians as what to look out for when I started touring years ago.

 

[wateroftyne]

But one other thing is that there is a history of African American musicians having issues while traveling both in and out of the states,I personally have experienced this and was schooled by older, more experienced musicians as what to look out for when I started touring years ago.

Interesting. Can you elaborate on how you think this is relevant to the topic in hand?

 

[Zureta]

Your taking the guys (Vic,Stanley etc) knee jerk reaction as it was happening, as their "concrete" opinion. If I saw something like that, I'd probably draw the same conclusion they did. Having never gone through that before, or not fully knowing that countries laws.

People are assuming that all SMV participants should have had the presence of mind to say "maybe this is legal, maybe their right" all the while as this is unfolding live. People speaking languages you don't understand and you're left to believe what someone tells you.

Bottom line is it could be either way. Corruption is everywhere and misunderstanding of foreign law is everywhere.

God Bless, Ray

I agree with your conclusions.

But not everyone here is talking about their reactions at the time of the video, or even the decision to record a video or not. That's surely not what I am talking about.

It sure looked like an unpleasantly unexpected, understandably upsetting (how's that for alliteration? ) situation, and to me they had every right to feel and act even more annoyed and hot-headed, at the time, than they appeared to be. I saw a very professional attitude from the musicians, in the video at least.

What I personally think was a reckless decision was to later post the video to a worldwide public along with comments claiming they were victims of extorsion, a very serious accusation and that understandably drew a lot of knee-jerk reactions from their fans. Unfortunately it also seemed to help raise some pretty ugly "damn dirty foreigners" sentiments from the more exhalted, all for no good reason.

Did they "cry wolf" too soon, raising a big ruckus before fully understanding what happened, and ultimately without any real justification? After knowing more of the facts, it sure seems that way to me.

Extorsion is a very serious accusation to make unjustly, with potentially damaging repercussions to the people/places involved, even if the claims are later proven to be false.

No matter what your feelings at the time, to later go online and do this kind of thing lightly is not a very professional attitude. And being famous/american/black/nice people/ignorant of local laws/really really annoyed/whatever is no excuse for it.

In My Opinion, I Am Not A Lawyer, etc, etc.

I'm glad this ended well for the real people involved, and only lawyers and us bedroom theoreticians have to bother with it anymore.

 

[Phil Smith]

As far as I understand the conversation is:

D: "They say, I was over the time on my... I don't know, 3 weeks ago. They don't even have to check me, and they know it"

V: "the law says if you're not driving they don't check you, right? That's right, that's the european law"

What I and zeb_bass understand is that the driver says that police know they don't have to check him, but they check him. In his defense, Victor says that police can't check him because he is not driving, which is not correct because spanish law says that any driver in the bus can be checked, wether he/she is driving or not.

You left out the part where he says something to the effect; "They know this without checking me"

 

[Brad Johnson]

Ah, a typical TB thread, masses of knee jerking an over reaction followed by some facts that make the situation look completely different, a few retractions and a few posts that continue to espouses the earlier knee jerking from people who don't read the whole thread. Just another day in the office. You can't make this stuff up!

Basically. Just as the sun rises each day...



It's easier to just get angry than to look at things objectively. A friend of mine asked me if I'd heard that SMV got jacked in Europe, then explained it was a roadside stop and they had to pay a big fine. My blood pressure didn't exactly shoot up... that would require actual facts

So I watched the videos today and I'mn still as unaffected as before. I heard them talk about driver violations, I heard someone, maybe the tour manager, say they could not pay the fine and be delayed from getting to their show.

No offense but it would be nice if US posters acted like they'd been somewhere...even if they haven't. Just like the laws are different here from other countries, the converse is true. And maybe Vic does know Spanish law and the inability to fine a driver who isn't currently driving... anyone want to bet on that?



If there's an actual log violation and the other driver could be fined, what are people upset about? Do they know this to be untrue.

And the iphone video did look good.