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SMV extorted by Spanish Border Patrol!

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#221
Marcus said:
No matter whose side you take, just put yourself into the SMV crew's position. You were stopped, held, and fined for a large amount of money for a law that you may or may not understand. No matter how you slice it, there will be some resentment there! I know for a fact that even if I had the money to burn, if I were stopped and fined on the spot for that much money, I would be pretty upset!
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If someone who was hired to drive for me was fined, I wouldn't necessarily be upset at the people who fined him. And the fine would come out of his pay if I had to pay it.
 
#223
IBWT said:
As far as I understand the conversation is:

D: "They say, I was over the time on my... I don't know, 3 weeks ago. They don't even have to check me, and they know it"

V: "the law says if you're not driving they don't check you, right? That's right, that's the european law"

What I and zeb_bass understand is that the driver says that police know they don't have to check him, but they check him. In his defense, Victor says that police can't check him because he is not driving, which is not correct because spanish law says that any driver in the bus can be checked, wether he/she is driving or not.
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So the indignation is fueled by Vic's understanding of Spanish law?

Sweet. This just gets better and better.
 
#224
Zureta said:
That's an interesting though. For all the shock and awe the apparent absurdity of the "pay on the spot" laws seem to inspire on folks, I can't really think of a better system in this context.

Sure, it looks damn shady, and if it happened in Brazil I would be totally suspicious of the cop's story. But would pay anyway, as part of a cunning "not getting shot in the face" strategy. :D

But it actually looks like a decent system providing it's a place where 1) people generally take the laws seriously, and 2) the cops generally aren't criminals. I would guess that it actually works fine in Spain, since from my knowledge western europe is not exactly a wretched hive of scum and villainy. And what else can they do, considering a bus over there can be three countries away in the next day?

Quick question for our knowledgeable USAsian friends: What would happen if the same situation happened in the U.S.? I mean, suppose a foreign non-U.S. resident commits a fineable traffic infraction inside the country?

  1. Pay on the spot? :eek:
  2. Do the cops say "No U.S. address? Then I'm sorry for the inconvenience sir, we cannot fine you, have a nice day" and let you go?
  3. Do they FedEx the fine to your international address and get the Interpol to arrest you if you don't pay?
  4. Instant deportation and blacklisting so you'll never cause trouble in american soil again?
  5. Guantanamo? :p

Seriously, what happens?
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While my first thought was "Let's ask SMV", I honestly don't know what happens.
 
#225
There is a part in the video were Stanley Clarke is in the back ground talking about playing a Spanish piece that didn't go over that great.......misunderstandings all-around.;)
 
#227
Brad Johnson said:
If someone who was hired to drive for me was fined, I wouldn't necessarily be upset at the people who fined him. And the fine would come out of his pay if I had to pay it.
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In the normal course of events that's what's supposed to happen, but I believe the reason the video exists and is on youtube, which also means everyone said, "yeah, cool, upload it!" is that they, meaning the occupants of the bus, unanimously believe something wasn't quite right and also note that the video didn't show up on the internet the day of the incident. Stanley is no stranger to european tours and a reasonable guy, so if he thinks things were shady I'm inclined to believe him until such time he retracts his assertions.
 
#232
welcome in europe guys, I know some of the things that are happening in france, spain and some other countries in europe, My job allows me to see all the stupid things and corruption that is around.
that's why I'm going to quit my job in 2012 and leave my country (France) the same year to go to UK, because I can tell you that something in these countries that everyone love is smellin' real bad.
 
#233
DWBass said:
In Victor and Stanley's defense, did they or did they not say the 'police' did not 'speak' english?? Okay, then how are they supposed to know 'exactly' why they are being stopped and fined?? In their view, without a 'clear' explanation, it seemed like 'extortion'! At the end of the day, I'm quite sure there will be further updates to these raw, on the spot, videos!
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Alright, as an American who has lived in Europe for over 17 years, let me start with this somewhat useful tidbit of information. Not every European speaks English. The English speaking community (Americans are especially notorious for this attitude,) seems to believe that just because English is possibly the most spoken language on the planet, that everyone does indead speak it. Alot of people I've come across have a working knowledge, but it is not a requirement.(Believe me, I have quite a few friends who speak no English at all, but they are still good people.) Maybe these police did not speak English, but when my family and I go home to Joliet, Illinois, the aren't alot of police who can speak German (or French, Chinese,etc.) The attitude that "whereever you go someone can alway speak English" is quite arrogant and does not help our reputations in other countries.
And as for people who think €2000 is alot for a traffic violation of this nature, remember that tired drivers cause just as many deaths on European highway if not more than drunken drivers. Sorry about the rant. Now back to the thread.
 
#234
wateroftyne said:
Interesting. Can you elaborate on how you think this is relevant to the topic in hand?
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Ok,
I have read the term "knee jerk reaction" several times in the discussion and that phrase implies that there is no real basis for them feeling that they were being exploited. What I meant was as a group of African American musicians there is a historical precedent of harassment and exploitation while traveling,as some reading for research please look up
Dizzy Gillespie autobiography, Miles Davis bio,Sammy Davis jr's (titled "yes I can" a great book) and for a more recent example one of Wynton Marsalises books "Sweet baby blues on the road".

Now of course the police or none-boarder patrol or who ever they were, didn't know that there were African American musicians on that bus from the outside but I'm talking about how they felt on that bus knowing what they know and having the even momentary feeling of "why is this happening?"
As far as the relevancy to this topic? just another perspective,take it or leave it.
 
#235
Rico_2212 said:
Alright, as an American who has lived in Europe for over 17 years, let me start with this somewhat useful tidbit of information. Not every European speaks English. The English speaking community (Americans are especially notorious for this attitude,) seems to believe that just because English is possibly the most spoken language on the planet, that everyone does indead speak it. Alot of people I've come across have a working knowledge, but it is not a requirement.(Believe me, I have quite a few friends who speak no English at all, but they are still good people.) Maybe these police did not speak English, but when my family and I go home to Joliet, Illinois, the aren't alot of police who can speak German (or French, Chinese,etc.) The attitude that "whereever you go someone can alway speak English" is quite arrogant and does not help our reputations in other countries.
And as for people who think €2000 is alot for a traffic violation of this nature, remember that tired drivers cause just as many deaths on European highway if not more than drunken drivers. Sorry about the rant. Now back to the thread.
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The most naturally spoken langauge in the world is Chinese, followed by Spanish and then English.
 
#237
Someone was asking how traffic and road fines are handled in the United States.

It doesn't matter if your a US citizen or not. If your pulled over by the police in the United States in almost every jurisdiction your given a ticket for your offense. Not only are you not asked to pay on the spot you in all likelyhood can't pay on the spot. The police are not collections agents they are law enforcement. They issue you a ticket. You can pay the ticket by mail before the specified date or appear in court. If you don't pay then it is assumed that you wanted to appear in court.

When you don't show to court the judge issues a bench warrant requiring you to appear. This automatically puts you into the system and flagged so the next time your stopped you are arrested and taken to the local jail to await a hearing with a judge.

County clerks collect money. Not police.

If your a foreign national and leave the country then obviously you aren't going to be tracked down by US police to get the cash. You are however going to have a really fun time the next time you try to come back to the US via a border checkpoint.

I remember very vividly an incident 20 odd years ago when I was 17 and pulled over for speeding the first time. I asked the officer how much the ticket would cost me and tried to give him cash. He immediately stepped back from me and told me to put my money away or he might think I was trying to bribe him. They don't take cash. Period.

Basically the police make court documents. They don't handle the entire process.

-Rav
 
#239
IBWT said:
The most naturally spoken langauge in the world is Chinese, followed by Spanish and then English.
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Language Stats:
http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html
http://frankherles.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/the-100-most-spoken-languages-on-the-world/
Invalid Link Removed

I like how you use naturally to skew your point. Since "natrual speaker" doesn't cover the 100 million people who speak some local tribal dialect with their own family and village but speak English for everything else in their lives.

Even then your only partly right. You got beat by Hindu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers

-Rav
 
#240
Buogon said:
I can see you are a debater, and im sorry you seen things in a different way. What i do is make music and that is what i'm about. The details of where i have been and what i have seen is not what this thread is about ,and i will leave it like that. I do not seek a war of words with any one on TB. Every ones words do not agree with all people as been posted by others.

Once again i'm about making music .and don't care much about debating issues. I will have to end this with a :)
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Lol. "I got caught making false statements and I am going going to run away from it by pretending I am taking the high road."

Well, you did put a :) on my face.
 
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