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SMV extorted by Spanish Border Patrol!

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I think more law officers and even bureaucrats should expand the policy of collecting fines on the spot for all types of perceived offenses without oversight. What could go wrong?

While unpaid fines may be a problem, the solution here is horrible. To call it authoritarian is to be kind.
 
Someone was asking how traffic and road fines are handled in the United States.

It doesn't matter if your a US citizen or not. If your pulled over by the police in the United States in almost every jurisdiction your given a ticket for your offense. Not only are you not asked to pay on the spot you in all likelyhood can't pay on the spot. The police are not collections agents they are law enforcement. They issue you a ticket. You can pay the ticket by mail before the specified date or appear in court. If you don't pay then it is assumed that you wanted to appear in court.

When you don't show to court the judge issues a bench warrant requiring you to appear. This automatically puts you into the system and flagged so the next time your stopped you are arrested and taken to the local jail to await a hearing with a judge.

County clerks collect money. Not police.

If your a foreign national and leave the country then obviously you aren't going to be tracked down by US police to get the cash. You are however going to have a really fun time the next time you try to come back to the US via a border checkpoint.

I remember very vividly an incident 20 odd years ago when I was 17 and pulled over for speeding the first time. I asked the officer how much the ticket would cost me and tried to give him cash. He immediately stepped back from me and told me to put my money away or he might think I was trying to bribe him. They don't take cash. Period.

Basically the police make court documents. They don't handle the entire process.

-Rav

Excluding Wisconsin as stated is post #179.

With your post you have also described the protocol used in Europe. As an exception some countries (Spain for instance) have changed their protocol when it cames to giving tickets to foreigners, because it would be otherwise hard to collect the tickets afterwards from some person living in another country. This is due to the Schengen Area which includes most of the Europe.

"The Schengen Area is a group of twenty-five European countries which have abolished all border controls between each other. It originates from the eponymous agreement signed in the Luxembourgish town of Schengen in 1985, which has since been absorbed into the European Union. All EU members except Ireland and the United Kingdom are required to implement Schengen and, with the exceptions of Bulgaria, Cyprus and Romania, have done so. Three non-member states, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland, have also implemented the Schengen rules. As such, the Area currently covers a population of over 400 million people and an area of 4,312,099 square kilometres (1,664,911 sq mi).

Implementing the Schengen rules involves eliminating border controls with other Schengen members while simultaneously strengthening border controls with non-member states. The rules include provisions on common policy on the temporary entry of persons (including the Schengen visa), the harmonisation of external border controls, and cross-border police and judicial co-operation.

A passport or an EU approved national identity card should be brought anyway when travelling, since identity checks can be done at places like airports, hotels and by the police. This depends on national rules and varies between countries. Occasionally regular border controls are done between Schengen countries."


Because of the bolded part there isn't actually a similiar system like in the US that you mentioned. Somebody with a standing violation can travel back to the "crime scene" many times because the border and other identity checks are random when traveling by road.
 
I think more law officers and even bureaucrats should expand the policy of collecting fines on the spot for all types of perceived offenses without oversight. What could go wrong?

While unpaid fines may be a problem, the solution here is horrible. To call it authoritarian is to be kind.

It's only applied to people who aren't citizens of the country and are therefore subjectable to leaving the country with out paying. And I'd also like to point out that this isn't the standard procedure in every European country.
 
I think more law officers and even bureaucrats should expand the policy of collecting fines on the spot for all types of perceived offenses without oversight. What could go wrong?

While unpaid fines may be a problem, the solution here is horrible. To call it authoritarian is to be kind.

While wire taping for no reason or proof, right to check on your library records for no reason or proof, etc. is not authoritarian.

We start from the point that you have to trust the police. If you don't why even have one?
If the officer keeps the money for himself he has to delete the record, etc. this is made extremely difficult this days because of computers.
 
In the normal course of events that's what's supposed to happen, but I believe the reason the video exists and is on youtube, which also means everyone said, "yeah, cool, upload it!" is that they, meaning the occupants of the bus, unanimously believe something wasn't quite right and also note that the video didn't show up on the internet the day of the incident. Stanley is no stranger to european tours and a reasonable guy, so if he thinks things were shady I'm inclined to believe him until such time he retracts his assertions.


That's quite an assumption. You believe Vic cleared it with every occupant of the bus because that's what he should have done?
 
I can attest to fines being hard to collect across borders.

I was fined last year for not validating a ticket on the Berlin subway. I genuinely didn't realise that I had to.
The ticket inspector would have none of it, and issued an on the spot fine of 60 Euros. I didn't have that on me so I couldn't pay it, he took all my details including my passport number, and just gave me a ticket to take to an office to pay my fine.

I didn't pay the fine, and a week or two after I had a letter from the Berlin transport people, I just threw it in the bin.
 
I can attest to fines being hard to collect across borders.

I was fined last year for not validating a ticket on the Berlin subway. I genuinely didn't realise that I had to.
The ticket inspector would have none of it, and issued an on the spot fine of 60 Euros. I didn't have that on me so I couldn't pay it, he took all my details including my passport number, and just gave me a ticket to take to an office to pay my fine.

I didn't pay the fine, and a week or two after I had a letter from the Berlin transport people, I just threw it in the bin.

Ha!

So you are the lone non-fine-payer responsible for all pay-on-the-spot laws in the world! Don't let anyone find out! :D
 
I can attest to fines being hard to collect across borders.

I was fined last year for not validating a ticket on the Berlin subway. I genuinely didn't realise that I had to.
The ticket inspector would have none of it, and issued an on the spot fine of 60 Euros. I didn't have that on me so I couldn't pay it, he took all my details including my passport number, and just gave me a ticket to take to an office to pay my fine.

I didn't pay the fine, and a week or two after I had a letter from the Berlin transport people, I just threw it in the bin.
What would happen if you were stopped again in Berlin?

The U.S. system is designed to allow people (power to the people) to abuse the system rather than enforcement agents (limit government). However, arrest warrants could be issued to those who don't pay.
 
In the video they state that they had been warned about exactly what happened. The drivers also knew what was going on. It's about 90%+ certain that they are being shaken down rather than an actual fine. There are corrupt cops everywhere, but when cash fines are involved there are a lot more.
 
Nearly everything governments do they do with the implicit threat of force. Governments don't ask, they order. In the case of police power, this is surely the case, hence the "gunpoint" phrase.

So if the driver did in fact break the law, and was endangering the lives of others, he shouldn't be punished?

In the video they state that they had been warned about exactly what happened. The drivers also knew what was going on. It's about 90%+ certain that they are being shaken down rather than an actual fine. There are corrupt cops everywhere, but when cash fines are involved there are a lot more.

Did....did you read the thread? The Spanish TBers wrapped things up pretty neatly.

This is probably a flame comments, but I wish jaquo would come back and justify that this is a shakedown, in light of the legal comments made by our Spanish brethren.
 
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