Double Bass So Gerold’s cooking up something new...

[Malten]

Is the wait time still very long for Tempera strings? I recall years ago that they wanted it to be a similar production pattern to Velvet but it seems like it is still very bespoke.

I have been waiting for a set of Basso since around mid August. When I e-mailed them a month or two ago Jan-Ole apologized for the long waiting time, he said that they had problems with producing strings during covid and they were not quite back to full speed yet. He told me to remind him about my order if I didn't hear from him again during December so I just sent him an e-mail last night to hear what the status is. Hopefully they will be ready soon.

If you are interested in the strings I'd say just place an order now. It will take a while and you are not paying for anything now or committing to buying when they are ready.

 

[garrett2]

I got on the waiting list in July and I heard that the set was ready yesterday.

 

[elmer]

can you elaborate on how they compare? how were the orchestras for jazz? tonal differences arco?

It´s hard to describe but on my 109cm mensur the orhestras (Basso) sound warmer both arco and pizz (maybe more mids...?) I like the colour of the tone better. For jazz I get a more gut like attack with more of that punch and snap in the beginning of the note. Hybrids give me a more Spiro like attack. Hybrids are a bit louder both arco and pizz.
The other difference for me is the feel. Hybrids felt stiffer. You said it well - they feel like a mix of Spiro weich and EP. The orhestras have a unique and very comfortable touch. Solid, flexible but not floppy. The strings resonate (you can really see it) with a little effort and have also great sustain.
This is of course very subjective and depends on the bass, but the orchestras are the hybrid strings for me

 

[LaFaro01]

Hi Pete! Sounds great! Are these the "regulars" or the hybrids? How would you compare them to your Helix set?
Thanks!

Yes that would be very interesting... for me too... I had the possibility to check out the Helix on another bass and.... I like my Temperas a lot, but the pizz sound made me thinking about... and my instrument is also a very dark sounding bass..

 

[hervejeanne]

It´s hard to describe but on my 109cm mensur the orhestras (Basso) sound warmer both arco and pizz (maybe more mids...?) I like the colour of the tone better. For jazz I get a more gut like attack with more of that punch and snap in the beginning of the note. Hybrids give me a more Spiro like attack. Hybrids are a bit louder both arco and pizz.
The other difference for me is the feel. Hybrids felt stiffer. You said it well - they feel like a mix of Spiro weich and EP. The orhestras have a unique and very comfortable touch. Solid, flexible but not floppy. The strings resonate (you can really see it) with a little effort and have also great sustain.
This is of course very subjective and depends on the bass, but the orchestras are the hybrid strings for me

Hi Elmer,
thanks for this information. So the orchestra Temperas are more punchy and "old school" than the hybrids? I wonder how they compare to the Sonores AP. I am looking for something punchy/thumpy, flatwound with metal.

 

[elmer]

Hi Elmer,
thanks for this information. So the orchestra Temperas are more punchy and "old school" than the hybrids? I wonder how they compare to the Sonores AP. I am looking for something punchy/thumpy, flatwound with metal.

Hi Herve and thanks for your great String matrix -pages which have helped me a lot!
Yes I had this experience but it was only on my bass which is very dark. Jan-Ole, the other Tempera founder answered me like this:
"Every instrument has certain frequencies that are highlighted more than others. It might be that your instrument happens to match the frequencies that the BASSO presents as well. On average the HYBRID tends to be a bit warmer and softer compared to the BASSO. But as you said, it depends on the bass."
I haven´t played the AP´s but Temperas are much thinner , more steel string vibe but still very warm and they have lots of sustain, not thumpy at all. So maybe they aren´t what you´re looking for...
Maybe the AP or Helix would be a better match.

 

[groooooove]

Hi Herve and thanks for your great String matrix -pages which have helped me a lot!
Yes I had this experience but it was only on my bass which is very dark. Jan-Ole, the other Tempera founder answered me like this:
"Every instrument has certain frequencies that are highlighted more than others. It might be that your instrument happens to match the frequencies that the BASSO presents as well. On average the HYBRID tends to be a bit warmer and softer compared to the BASSO. But as you said, it depends on the bass."
I haven´t played the AP´s but Temperas are much thinner , more steel string vibe but still very warm and they have lots of sustain, not thumpy at all. So maybe they aren´t what you´re looking for...
Maybe the AP or Helix would be a better match.

i would even suggest that tempera, or any low-tension string, more than others is going to accentuate the voice of your bass.

my impression is that these strings (largely due to low tension) allow the bass to speak. the more tension we add the more we are choking the bass.

 

[AGCurry]

... the more tension we add the more we are choking the bass.

And yet ...

String tension affects sound because it determines the force applied by the bridge to the bass's top plate.

I have demonstrated to myself that my acoustic guitar speaks much better with medium-gauge strings than with light-gauge strings. To take that experiment to the extreme, imagine putting classical-guitar strings on a Martin D28 ... it would sound ... wimpy.

The conclusion I draw from that test is that each instrument has its own ideal "number" for force on its top. The force that chokes one instrument may be required to make another instrument sing nicely.

I have Tempera Basso strings on my Krutz 650, and they work better than anything else I've tried. They don't work so well on my Quenoil-style bass, which recently received Pirastro Original Flat Chrome D&G (Spiro weich E&A). The OFCs really make that bass roar.

 

[garrett2]

Does anyone know the rationale behind the preference for heavy tailpieces with Tempera strings?

 

[groooooove]

And yet ...

String tension affects sound because it determines the force applied by the bridge to the bass's top plate.

I have demonstrated to myself that my acoustic guitar speaks much better with medium-gauge strings than with light-gauge strings. To take that experiment to the extreme, imagine putting classical-guitar strings on a Martin D28 ... it would sound ... wimpy.

The conclusion I draw from that test is that each instrument has its own ideal "number" for force on its top. The force that chokes one instrument may be required to make another instrument sing nicely.

I have Tempera Basso strings on my Krutz 650, and they work better than anything else I've tried. They don't work so well on my Quenoil-style bass, which recently received Pirastro Original Flat Chrome D&G (Spiro weich E&A). The OFCs really make that bass roar.

all that being said, i think gut strings (or tempera/gut-like tension) for the vast majority of basses will be closer to the ideal.

i may be totally off. it's possible these strings just suit my bass and my needs very well.

but, it's the same reason dragonetti and bottesini played 3 strings - and that was even in the day of gut strings all together.

hard to say anything definitive, with countless variables at play. but bozo paradzik's stance on this really did convince me. i'm not so sure i'd like to go tell edgar he's choking his bass with this spirocores just yet, but if i had to choose one i would (as of now) choose low tension every time.

 

[WynstonMinckler]

Does anyone know the rationale behind the preference for heavy tailpieces with Tempera strings?

My understanding is that it's to match with the lower tension strings. Modern setups have higher tension strings that benefit from light tailpieces. The tempera/sonores concept seems to be going for lighter string tension closer to an old school gut string setup, where a heavy tailpiece is better for volume, projection, etc. I've read somewhere Gerold mentioning that lower tension strings was what the instrument was originally designed for and it was a mistake for modern string manufacturing to make the switch.

I'm just a player so don't really know all the ins and outs but my instrument is early 20th century and responds really well to guts and Gerold's strings. When I made the switch and got one of his tailpieces it was shocking how much more resonant and beefy of a sound I could get on my bass.

 

[garrett2]

my instrument is early 20th century and responds really well to guts and Gerold's strings. When I made the switch and got one of his tailpieces it was shocking how much more resonant and beefy of a sound I could get on my bass.

My instrument is also early 20th c. and loves the Tempera strings. I'm having a bass made and have been discussing the tailpiece with the luthier so I wanted to get a better understanding of why.

 

[foilracer]

Does anyone know the rationale behind the preference for heavy tailpieces with Tempera strings?

Could someone comment (in grams) the weight range of a "heavy" tailpiece. Thanks!

 

[crd]

Is it just a heavy ebony tailpiece? Also what on earth is the extra special SUPREMUM tailpiece wire... I'm enjoying my helix strings but I also enjoy any string I play for more than a week on.

 

[crd]

Could someone comment (in grams) the weight range of a "heavy" tailpiece. Thanks!

This pdf from his site makes it look like it is 400 grams.

 

[afroblue]

Could you in theory add weight to your existing tailpiece then to better the sound?

 

[crd]

Could you in theory add weight to your existing tailpiece then to better the sound?

I imagine the density of the material is important. This type of thing is so hard to a/b. I don't know who has the time to trade out various tailpieces, give there instrument a month to adjust to the change and then trade it out for another material...

My very simple (and I am sure many feel differently) understanding is that heavy = more dampened sound, often better for the bow and lighter = better for pizz, more "open." I think of it as a very instrument specific thing.

 

[AGCurry]

My understanding is that it's to match with the lower tension strings. Modern setups have higher tension strings that benefit from light tailpieces. The tempera/sonores concept seems to be going for lighter string tension closer to an old school gut string setup, where a heavy tailpiece is better for volume, projection, etc. I've read somewhere Gerold mentioning that lower tension strings was what the instrument was originally designed for and it was a mistake for modern string manufacturing to make the switch.

I'm just a player so don't really know all the ins and outs but my instrument is early 20th century and responds really well to guts and Gerold's strings. When I made the switch and got one of his tailpieces it was shocking how much more resonant and beefy of a sound I could get on my bass.

Wynston, did you try the strings with your old tailpiece before switching to a new tailpiece?

 

[WynstonMinckler]

Wynston, did you try the strings with your old tailpiece before switching to a new tailpiece?

Ha, that's a good point and I realized it might be a misleading that I didn't specify. I switched from one of those Marvin tailpieces that's basically Kevlar fabric and wires so it was a very extreme switch.

Gerold said the Marvin wouldn't work well with his strings but when I went to get my old ebony tailpiece off a high shelf I dropped it and it cracked so eventually figured I might as well get one of his. It's a heavy tailpiece made of some proprietary mystery composite material. The tailpiece wire is the same, some sort of fabric but I've got no idea and imagine it's top secret.

 

[Decomposer]

Hi Elmer,
thanks for this information. So the orchestra Temperas are more punchy and "old school" than the hybrids? I wonder how they compare to the Sonores AP. I am looking for something punchy/thumpy, flatwound with metal.

Hervejeanne, I have tried a few different Genssler strings. For the sound you describe, Gerolds J-Roque strings could be perfect. Punchy and Thumpy with clarity. They are quite thick and you arco takes a bit of adjustment. Previously I used Oliv DG with various EAs, Pro, Evah, etc. This is my favorite for this Czech bass.
On another bass I have Genssler Rain Worms. Better Arco, more sustain, still an old school and loud Pizz sound. I would start with the JRs.