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Double Bass So, I disregarded all advice...
- Thread starter eukatheude
- Start date
Especially since most of us go to a veritable luthier and basically are retelling stuff they told us!
- Aug 1, 2005
- 3,546
- 1,421
- Disclosures
- Private Inventor - Bass Capos
I don't see the "get your money back" angle before consulting a luthier. We know that the bass isn't set up, but we don't know that the bass is junk (do we?). I bet a used set of Spiros would alone make a world of difference. If so, the OP can work from there. Next would be fitting the bridge feet and a bit of soundpost tweaking. All that together should come in at less than the price he paid, and he might be already off and running. Don't be so hard on the guy everyone. How many of you appreciated the value of a top notch setup when you first started?
Also, I don't see the shims as the planetary emergency that most here seem to. No one is going to die if the top of this bass gets a little damage from bad foot contact, and the improvement in sound from fixing it isn't going to be all that drastic on a bass of this level. I've seen street musicians with bits of corrugated cardboard under the feet who got a huge sound. Maybe he should go with cork shims. Problem solved!
Yeah, well, whatever...
Also, I don't see the shims as the planetary emergency that most here seem to. No one is going to die if the top of this bass gets a little damage from bad foot contact, and the improvement in sound from fixing it isn't going to be all that drastic on a bass of this level. I've seen street musicians with bits of corrugated cardboard under the feet who got a huge sound. Maybe he should go with cork shims. Problem solved!
Yeah, well, whatever...
Just a note to remind everyone that our forum rules still apply no matter how we feel about an instrument that someone owns or has purchased. Being honest in a helpful way is fine. Posting demeaning comments in a mean spirited way is not.
Well, I had this done on my CCBSO; bridge, topnut and soundpost got done* and a new set of strings were slapped on there. The setup cost me 65 €, the set of strings were secondhand Zyex ones.
In the end it is still not a very good instrument, but it works and it achieved its purpose; seeing if I could get back into playing DB after short of 20 years and re-enjoying the instrument, and on top of that, it funded the purchase of another (better) bass.
* the fingerboard has not been plained; my luthier just told me to live with it as it is, as plaining the fingerboard would cost me more than the worth of the bass.
In Vienna they know what they are doing.. Like Germans with cars etc.. I'll leave it at this and go no further..
Thomastik-Infeld is an Austrian company founded in 1919, located in Vienna developing and producing strings and ↑ for bowed and fretted string instruments.
The company still makes "Dominant" strings, one of the earliest brands of perlon string, now considered a standard for comparison to other synthetic string sets.
In 1919, Dr. Franz Thomastik, a violin maker, and Otto Infeld, a civil engineer, decided to found a company. They started manufacturing steel strings.
In those years, the conventional gut string was challenged by another kind of string type; Thomastik-Infeld offered this type of string with the highest quality of tone, precision and reliability. It was received enthusiastically by virtuosi across the world.
You do realize you're speaking with great authority to a German about traits of German things? Robobass' point was simply that string choice is a personal thing. What are you hoping to accomplish by cutting and pasting text from a wiki article?
This is amazing.
I am complimenting the Germans. They are amazing at so many things - like all kinds of products and automobiles.. I'm saying that just like Germans make really well-made and quality products, like Thomastik Infield company..
and we didn't even get into German Food! ha.
???
I am complimenting the Germans. They are amazing at so many things - like all kinds of products and automobiles.. I'm saying that just like Germans make really well-made and quality products, like Thomastik Infield company..
and we didn't even get into German Food! ha.
???
With all due respect, and as a dedicated TI Dominant user, I very much doubt that your compliments are coming across as you intend them. Yes, they are great strings, but the point was that strings are a personal choice, not an objective qualitative decision. More on point with the original topic of the thread, basses are the same way. Yes, some basses are "better" than others in terms of construction and playability, and others are generally not recommended as a public service in the hope of saving a stranger the pain and trouble of dealing with the likely issues that those instruments will have; this is all well and good, but beyond that, armed with all the information, what to buy is still a personal choice.
The luthier gave me an appointment for next tuesday, will report back with his findings.
As for technique, I was in fact incorrectly collapsing my fingers. Using my fingertips the sound is more focused, though still weaker than the other strings.
Unfortunately my tendonitis is also back, so the little playing I'm able to do, I'm doing on the electric.
Two nights ago I went to a jam and had the chance to try the house bassist's DB. While I can't speak of tone and response since it was amplified with a little combo, I can say playability was much better as I expected. Yet, it wasn't something so drastic that compelled to throw my DB away, frankly.
That said, I did play it terribly, but that's another story.
As for technique, I was in fact incorrectly collapsing my fingers. Using my fingertips the sound is more focused, though still weaker than the other strings.
Unfortunately my tendonitis is also back, so the little playing I'm able to do, I'm doing on the electric.
Two nights ago I went to a jam and had the chance to try the house bassist's DB. While I can't speak of tone and response since it was amplified with a little combo, I can say playability was much better as I expected. Yet, it wasn't something so drastic that compelled to throw my DB away, frankly.
That said, I did play it terribly, but that's another story.
I know a couple of guys locally who struggle with tendonitis, and they either have compression sleeves, or tendon straps. Might be worth looking into. I know when I injured my right knee, the compression sleeve was a godsend.
@robobass
Also, I don't see the shims as the planetary emergency that most here seem to. No one is going to die if the top of this bass gets a little damage from bad foot contact, and the improvement in sound from fixing it isn't going to be all that drastic on a bass of this level. I've seen street musicians with bits of corrugated cardboard under the feet who got a huge sound. Maybe he should go with cork shims. Problem solved!
+1000000000000000000000
An instrument that is set up properly makes a world of difference, I originally bought a Palatino as my first bass, and I still have it, mainly for sentimental value. However first thing I did was bring it to Gage and let them work their magic. They set up the bass beautifully fixed what needed to be fixed, even reset the neck for a really inexpensive price. They installed shims on the bridge (under the adjusters to give the bridge more height, so they could reshape the bridge without having to get a whole new one) and amazingly the bass is still happy... That bass has seen some rough days (once I was pushed over in a rehearsal by an ill-meaning kid and both the bass and I fell, no major injuries to either one, both cosmetic). Nonetheless the bass served me well for what I needed.
However as soon as I could afford it, I went and upgraded, and I did that again which is why I have the bass I do now.
You are looking for mainly pizz playing, and I would choose my palatino for jazz over my current bass. I like that plywoody sound for jazz.(I dont play jazz often...rarely if that)
Chris, couldn't have said it better if someone was feeding me the words on a prompter
I would have to disagree
Please understand, not everyone has money for brand new strings, specially a beginner or a BG guy who is used to spending $40 max every 6 months. Buying used string specially lightly used is a great opportunity for new players or players who are looking to try strings. No one is telling the OP to go buy 10 year old spiros... a solid set of 6 month old (insert trusted string here) would probably serve him well until he gets the fundamentals down. Like you said it is a "practice bass". Not knocking D'Addario, but you do have other options like Corelli, and other affordable strings made by the large string companies. Explore the options, don't make any decisions just yet
Also I have a whole thread on Spirocore's as does @TroyK ... I think I can safely say that we both feel that Spiro's are not for everyone, and they do not give everyone the sound they ultimately are looking for, and we (Troy and I) come from two different sides of the playing spectrum. Results may vary with every string, take a look at how people love any string and how there are people who do not like those strings... Every bass is different, every person is different, and every kind of string is different. All we can do is try our bests to find the right combination of the three (and a bow for those who play arco) to find their perfect sound. Honestly I dont think very many of us have, but I am sure there are more than a few who are close...
@OP >For the record, my Palatino has Kaplan's on it and it sounds just fine, the bass is naturally bright and small so a darker string was the right way to go. Helicores were actually too bright on the bass, and the Kaplans push it! I can't even imagine putting spiros on that bass, maybe it negates the brightness... Buy strings that suit your instrument not what other people tell you to buy, after a good setup you should ask that luthier what they recommend, you may be able to find a gently used set of that string on the classifieds, and have strings on your bass that don't need breaking in... As a beginner I remember how frustrating it was for strings to break in, I felt like everything I learned was going out the window because I didnt understand what was happening.
>Also for the record, for the first 3 months of my playing I tried to bow on D'Addario Pizz's because the clerk at the store told me they were Orchs and I had no clue... That's when I started becoming a true string nerd and can identify strings on sight by silks.
>As for returning the bass, I would just crunch the numbers and add up how much a new bridge will cost, and any setup work, the strings (new or old) and anything else the bass may need in the near future after meeting with the luthier. I would say if it adds up to over 1500 with the price of the bass, consider taking the bass back (you can get a really nice shen for less that comes set up). If not then it might be worth hanging on to, but when people tell you to return it, its because there are too many incidents with these basses, I must be lucky that nothings happened to mine.
Finally, when all is said and done we're happy you took the leap into DB and we all hope you're happy. This is a big purchase and a big step for any musician, while I can only speak for myself: I hope and wish that you have an exciting, fun, educational, and musical journey on the double bass. And I hope you and everyone here can share their growth and experiences with one another (in a civil/scholarly way) to contribute to part of this global community you have joined!
Welcome!
Also, I don't see the shims as the planetary emergency that most here seem to. No one is going to die if the top of this bass gets a little damage from bad foot contact, and the improvement in sound from fixing it isn't going to be all that drastic on a bass of this level. I've seen street musicians with bits of corrugated cardboard under the feet who got a huge sound. Maybe he should go with cork shims. Problem solved!
+1000000000000000000000
An instrument that is set up properly makes a world of difference, I originally bought a Palatino as my first bass, and I still have it, mainly for sentimental value. However first thing I did was bring it to Gage and let them work their magic. They set up the bass beautifully fixed what needed to be fixed, even reset the neck for a really inexpensive price. They installed shims on the bridge (under the adjusters to give the bridge more height, so they could reshape the bridge without having to get a whole new one) and amazingly the bass is still happy... That bass has seen some rough days (once I was pushed over in a rehearsal by an ill-meaning kid and both the bass and I fell, no major injuries to either one, both cosmetic). Nonetheless the bass served me well for what I needed.
However as soon as I could afford it, I went and upgraded, and I did that again which is why I have the bass I do now.
You are looking for mainly pizz playing, and I would choose my palatino for jazz over my current bass. I like that plywoody sound for jazz.(I dont play jazz often...rarely if that)
Chris, couldn't have said it better if someone was feeding me the words on a prompter
I would have to disagree
Please understand, not everyone has money for brand new strings, specially a beginner or a BG guy who is used to spending $40 max every 6 months. Buying used string specially lightly used is a great opportunity for new players or players who are looking to try strings. No one is telling the OP to go buy 10 year old spiros... a solid set of 6 month old (insert trusted string here) would probably serve him well until he gets the fundamentals down. Like you said it is a "practice bass". Not knocking D'Addario, but you do have other options like Corelli, and other affordable strings made by the large string companies. Explore the options, don't make any decisions just yet
Also I have a whole thread on Spirocore's as does @TroyK ... I think I can safely say that we both feel that Spiro's are not for everyone, and they do not give everyone the sound they ultimately are looking for, and we (Troy and I) come from two different sides of the playing spectrum. Results may vary with every string, take a look at how people love any string and how there are people who do not like those strings... Every bass is different, every person is different, and every kind of string is different. All we can do is try our bests to find the right combination of the three (and a bow for those who play arco) to find their perfect sound. Honestly I dont think very many of us have, but I am sure there are more than a few who are close...
@OP >For the record, my Palatino has Kaplan's on it and it sounds just fine, the bass is naturally bright and small so a darker string was the right way to go. Helicores were actually too bright on the bass, and the Kaplans push it! I can't even imagine putting spiros on that bass, maybe it negates the brightness... Buy strings that suit your instrument not what other people tell you to buy, after a good setup you should ask that luthier what they recommend, you may be able to find a gently used set of that string on the classifieds, and have strings on your bass that don't need breaking in... As a beginner I remember how frustrating it was for strings to break in, I felt like everything I learned was going out the window because I didnt understand what was happening.
>Also for the record, for the first 3 months of my playing I tried to bow on D'Addario Pizz's because the clerk at the store told me they were Orchs and I had no clue... That's when I started becoming a true string nerd and can identify strings on sight by silks.
>As for returning the bass, I would just crunch the numbers and add up how much a new bridge will cost, and any setup work, the strings (new or old) and anything else the bass may need in the near future after meeting with the luthier. I would say if it adds up to over 1500 with the price of the bass, consider taking the bass back (you can get a really nice shen for less that comes set up). If not then it might be worth hanging on to, but when people tell you to return it, its because there are too many incidents with these basses, I must be lucky that nothings happened to mine.
Finally, when all is said and done we're happy you took the leap into DB and we all hope you're happy. This is a big purchase and a big step for any musician, while I can only speak for myself: I hope and wish that you have an exciting, fun, educational, and musical journey on the double bass. And I hope you and everyone here can share their growth and experiences with one another (in a civil/scholarly way) to contribute to part of this global community you have joined!
Welcome!
I did try a cheap compression sleeve some time ago, but it didn't seem to work very well for me. Should maybe try a decent one (don't know if you have those kind of shops in the US, but I bought that one for 0.50€ in a Chinese general store...) Also tried some kind of strap with a hole to put your thumb in, in order to keep the hand in a relaxed position, but after a few days it seemed to me it was doing more harm than good. I definitely need to see a physician which is familiar with musician's injuries, but they are hard to find. This thing has been going on for months now and I'm starting to worry.
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I think the good advice we gave in the beginning was because the OP wanted to improve the bass himself without a real clue how to do it correctly and how he could easily harm the bass permanently.
Now we come to the point that it is not worth all these improvements, because they might cost a lot of money if he wants them all.
We all know it will become a beginners instrument, that could be played until he either drops the instrument or he waits until he can afford a better instrument.
That whole discussion wasn't needed if the OP had a more realistic view and didn't disregarded the previous advice.
Why should we further discuss until the OP told us what his luthier said?
Now we come to the point that it is not worth all these improvements, because they might cost a lot of money if he wants them all.
We all know it will become a beginners instrument, that could be played until he either drops the instrument or he waits until he can afford a better instrument.
That whole discussion wasn't needed if the OP had a more realistic view and didn't disregarded the previous advice.
Why should we further discuss until the OP told us what his luthier said?
- So After We read again the first Post, You can see where I am coming from with my objective/subjective forcing opinions etc.. I am only trying to help him based on what he wanted..
- Don't pretend thomastik strings aren't what everybody compares strings to.. And there is a reason why they are so expensive as well..
Of course strings are a "personal choice" - and so is the car you own too.. Now is it a Chevy Neon or a Luxury car.. like with strings, is it the cheaper string or a quality hand-made or machine made precision string?
And while apparently it's not some objective qualified decision, are you going to want to drive the Chevy or the Luxury car and which one will be a smoother ride?
it's ok to buy used strings but it's so difficult to find them gently used and I'm too pessimistic to think people aren't selling there "used" strings to get rid of them cause something's wrong with them.. But that's just me.. I'm sure there is some good hearted souls out there selling good things.. Now this is me telling you this is solely my opinion.
This all circles back to this fact to help the OP in what he said and why I answered what I answered.
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Euka - Spirocores are a great string for the reasons you mentioned in the first post. on the other hand, they are also a bit on the stiff side, and if you are having tendon problems for whatever reason they might not be the best string for you in light of this. Many people who love the sound of spiros but who don't care for the tension end up going with spirocore which gauge or even spiro solo strings as a good compromise. I start off all my jazz students by recommending spiro mites, and we usually start with them fairly low and gradually build un the string height to match their technique to make sure they don't get hurt. I wouldn't put spiros on a bass with no adjusters in general unless the bridge was perfectly set up by a luthier, and for a person with tendonitis to play such a bass seems like it could be risky. If you had a good setup with adjuster wheels, the spiros could still be fine because you could put them at a relatively "safe" height at first. As always, EEMMV.
