Double Bass So, I disregarded all advice...

[eukatheude]

Euka - Spirocores are a great string for the reasons you mentioned in the first post. on the other hand, they are also a bit on the stiff side, and if you are having tendon problems for whatever reason they might not be the best string for you in light of this. Many people who love the sound of spiros but who don't care for the tension end up going with spirocore which gauge or even spiro solo strings as a good compromise. I start off all my jazz students by recommending spiro mites, and we usually start with them fairly low and gradually build un the string height to match their technique to make sure they don't get hurt. I wouldn't put spiros on a bass with no adjusters in general unless the bridge was perfectly set up by a luthier, and for a person with tendonitis to play such a bass seems like it could be risky. If you had a good setup with adjuster wheels, the spiros could still be fine because you could put them at a relatively "safe" height at first. As always, EEMMV.

Thanks. Tension is indeed a concern, especially since the bass doesn't exactly play like butter right now. I do need to educate myself on the properties of each kind of strings, but I guess the strings forum is right over the corner. In general, are nylon strings supposed to be low tension? It might just be that I like this bass' playability best only because of the strings.
An adjustable bridge is very likely a purchase I'll be making.

By the way, I've read that string height has a deep impact on volume, correct? So the compromise goes something like playability vs. volume?

 

[eukatheude]

Update!
Today I played the bass a bit, and noticed that the bridge feet were slightly tending towards the neck.
I read that the bridge tends to shift and basically just needs a karate chop every now and then... So I loosened the strings (a little, not enough to drop the soundpost) and gave a few light chops until I saw that the feet were more in line.
I noticed the bass gives a weird buzz when playing the open G string. It happened before, but now it was more prominent. I then noticed that the tailpiece is slightly inclined towards the treble side, and that the tailgut is also "slipping" down on that side. So I tried keeping the TP still with my foot... The buzz is gone. And if I play a G on the E string, now it booms as it should. So I'd say I've found the culprit.
I tried loosening the strings again and pushing the tailgut towards the center of the saddle. It seemed to take more force than I was comfortable using, so I left it there. I then noticed that the treble side of the bridge had gotten off the mark on the F-hole... So I gently pushed it into place.
As a temporary solution I'm thinking of using some foam/rubber/something to shove between the TP and the top, would you advise it?

 

[bassfacer22]

Please tell me you know how to set the bridge correctly? you just chopped your bridge down into position huh? haha.. too good.. I wonder if your bridge is even straight or bending towards the scroll etc..

I can't wait to hear what this luthier says.. I just can't wait..

And for the tailpiece, just put tape or something that stops the rattle.. a cloth wrapped around etc..

I'll be flying on a plane to London unfortunately when you post it but I have to see what he tells you.. ha.

 

[drurb]

Congratulations on the bass.

I suggest before you stress with all these upgrades and stuff just play the thing, and see what sounds you can get.

You could get years of learning out of this bass. You're over thinking the whole process.
There is that old saying that Ray Brown sounds like Ray Brown no matter what bass he plays.

Oh, no, no no. The "learning" will be frustrated and progress will be impeded. This is akin to learning to walk with a 25 lb weight on one leg and a 30 lb weight on the other. Consummate musicians are in the best position to make the most of any instrument. Those who are least able to do that are noobs. The problem is that it's usually the noobs who end up with the instruments that are most difficult to play. So, as I see it, the Ray Brown anecdote is quite inappropriate here.

...I read that the bridge tends to shift and basically just needs a karate chop every now and then... So I loosened the strings (a little, not enough to drop the soundpost) and gave a few light chops until I saw that the feet were more in line.

Go here.

 

[eukatheude]

The bridge was bending towards the scroll, and I could see that from the fact that the feet were slightly lifted on the tail side.
The readjusting method shown in the video makes a lot more sense, since I guess my karate chop also moved the feet. Which is why I then readjusted them - as in, between the inner notches on the F-holes and at the center. I got all this from the Gollihur FAQs, including the karate chop. So if you guys don't think that is good advice, I don't know why that's stickied since I got that site from the newbie links thread.

Newbie Links: SETUP | TalkBass.com


By the way, most links here just redirect me to the TB homepage: Newbie Links: SETUP | TalkBass.com

 

[Eric Hochberg]

The bridge was bending towards the scroll, and I could see that from the fact that the feet were slightly lifted on the tail side.
The readjusting method shown in the video makes a lot more sense, since I guess my karate chop also moved the feet. Which is why I then readjusted them - as in, between the inner notches on the F-holes and at the center. I got all this from the Gollihur FAQs, including the karate chop. So if you guys don't think that is good advice, I don't know why that's stickied since I got that site from the newbie links thread.

Newbie Links: SETUP | TalkBass.com


By the way, most links here just redirect me to the TB homepage: Newbie Links: SETUP | TalkBass.com

Instead of the chop, just press down on both sides of the bridge with two hands after loosening the strings a bit. It will give you more control than a random hit.

 

[jasonrp]

Please tell me you know how to set the bridge correctly? you just chopped your bridge down into position huh? haha.. too good.. I wonder if your bridge is even straight or bending towards the scroll etc..

I can't wait to hear what this luthier says.. I just can't wait..

And for the tailpiece, just put tape or something that stops the rattle.. a cloth wrapped around etc..

I'll be flying on a plane to London unfortunately when you post it but I have to see what he tells you.. ha.

Wow. You're an asset to this community

 

[drurb]

Instead of the chop, just press down on both sides of the bridge with two hands after loosening the strings a bit. It will give you more control than a random hit.

Eric, I think the technique shown in the video is safer because it prevents a potential lever action that could topple the bridge.

 

[bassfacer22]

Wow. You're an asset to this community

I don't know what you mean?

But if you read through all the pages till now - especially on the 1st page on the bottom, you will see I've explained as much as possible and even took the time to give him pictures to show him how the bridge should look..

So I don't know if that's what you mean but we are way past the point of giving this OP the answers he wanted and his next step is waiting on this luthier to look at his bass.

So I don't know if that's why you said that especially referring to me but you may want to read the 1st page of this if you have not already.

 

[jasonrp]

Yeah, I thought about deleting the post since I hate getting sucked in but it's better for me to leave it and get egged.

I read the whole thread and by the time I got to pg 4, I forgot about your pg 1 post. The one I quoted struck me as douchey but you are right and you did try to help earlier. My bad, man

 

[drurb]

The bridge was bending towards the scroll, and I could see that from the fact that the feet were slightly lifted on the tail side.
The readjusting method shown in the video makes a lot more sense, since I guess my karate chop also moved the feet. Which is why I then readjusted them - as in, between the inner notches on the F-holes and at the center. I got all this from the Gollihur FAQs, including the karate chop. So if you guys don't think that is good advice, I don't know why that's stickied since I got that site from the newbie links thread.

Newbie Links: SETUP | TalkBass.com


By the way, most links here just redirect me to the TB homepage: Newbie Links: SETUP | TalkBass.com

There is a great deal of useful information on the Gollihur site and that's why it's linked. The links are intended to be helpful and I believe they are. That doesn't mean that every bit of content posted on a third-party site is endorsed by the community in general. If you want to know how to reposition a bridge, then you're better off following the advice of luthiers/DB builders. That's the kind of advice the video provides. My advice is that you try as best you can to get out of your own way. That's intended in a friendly spirit.

 

[eukatheude]

There is a great deal of useful information on the Gollihur site and that's why it's linked. The links are intended to be helpful and I believe they are. That doesn't mean that every bit of content posted on a third-party site is endorsed by the community in general. If you want to know how to reposition a bridge, then you're better off following the advice of luthiers/DB builders. That's the kind of advice the video provides. My advice is that you try as best you can to get out of your own way. That's intended in a friendly spirit.

My post was more directed towards bassfacer22, who made fun of me for doing something that was linked on this very forum. And while I understand that there are different methods and that some information may or may not be detailed enough, I really don't understand why someone would fault me for following that advice.
That said, the video was very helpful.

The buzz happens anytime I play a G anywhere - it's just much more prominent on the lowest one. Of course, it gets worse the more I dig in. The TP is sort of twisted towards the treble side. If I apply some pressure on the bass side the problem is solved... Will try putting a piece of cloth there, but I think I need something that pushes it down. Or move that tailgut to where it should be maybe.
I'm thinking of trying using some cords to keep pressure on the top (so the soundpost doesn't move), really slacking the strings and putting the tailgut in its place... In theory, worst case scenario is that the luthier still has to fit the bridge, right?

 

[drurb]

Well, to be frank, this is a case-study in why the advice you disregarded has, is, and will continue to be the advice that's offered. You'll be fixing one thing only to have another go wrong. Sort of like whack-a-mole.

Does anyone else appreciate the irony of these posts originating in Brescia?!

From: The History of the Double-Bass:
The first Italian workshops to make these instruments were in Brescia and Cremona.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Just as an aside, the strings on cheap chinese basses are usually pretty terrible. I wouldn't start worrying about doing much to the bass until there's a decent set of strings on there. If a string isn't true, it can make some pretty scary sounds!

 

[bassfacer22]

My post was more directed towards bassfacer22, who made fun of me for doing something that was linked on this very forum. And while I understand that there are different methods and that some information may or may not be detailed enough, I really don't understand why someone would fault me for following that advice.

Amazing.. I am laughing at this called "chopping" the bridge and you think I'm making fun of you.

Look buddy, I already went through everything you are going through and probably about to go through. This community as you can see now with over 4 pages, has given you all kinds of secrets and things (like the picture on the 1st page!!) that yes, most of us have learned by talking with and being with the Luthier while he works.. which by the way, is where you will finally learn the ultimate setup secrets direct from you luthier, who if he/she is in a Good mood, will actually show you the things and do it in front of you.


So, to think I'm making fun of you because I typed "haha" and asked you if you know how to setup a bridge, is a little too sensitive and especially with all the time I spent to type (and pictures) and am still typing to tell you things..

I've been through this buddy.. The luthier will tell you some things we can not because we can't see your bass in person and of course he has years of experiencing things with upright basses..

I urge you to not do this by the way!.. but the title of your post says it all again..
If you for some god knows reason why you can't wait till you see your luthier, then find something very heavy like a ton of big thick books or something that is 15-20lbs weight and put it very near where the sound post is on top of the bass right under the bridge feet.. **make sure to put a towel to not damage the top of the bass. and then loosen the strings enough only and try to fix the tail piece.. but this is pointless I feel and just wait for the luthier to look at it..


oh and here

(in-case anybody thinks i'm yelling or making fun of anything.)

I am enjoying your experience of getting a cheaper bass and having to go through and fix it.. so leave it at that please.. and like I said I want to hear all the luthier tells you when you go. That's ok right?

 

[bassfacer22]

And now just in case you think I'm crazy and such a jerk or whatever ridiculous idea.. here is why I can laugh about what your going through..

There are 4 upright basses here.. i've done everything with all of them..

I've been setting up and trying all kinds of things for awhile now.. So here is my credibility..

And this isn't even showing my other basses..

 

[eukatheude]

Well, to be frank, this is a case-study in why the advice you disregarded has, is, and will continue to be the advice that's offered. You'll be fixing one thing only to have another go wrong. Sort of like whack-a-mole.

Does anyone else appreciate the irony of these posts originating in Brescia?!

From: The History of the Double-Bass:
The first Italian workshops to make these instruments were in Brescia and Cremona.

I don't agree. The one advice I disregarded was about only buying costlier basses. I am following the others.
I moved back from Brescia last month BTW, haven't updated my profile yet... Not that it matters a lot in a mostly US based forum.

Just as an aside, the strings on cheap chinese basses are usually pretty terrible. I wouldn't start worrying about doing much to the bass until there's a decent set of strings on there. If a string isn't true, it can make some pretty scary sounds!

The strings were replaced by the previous owner. I tried using this site to identify them, but the only matches I get are Thomastik spirocores and Super Sensitive red labels.

Amazing.. I am laughing at this called "chopping" the bridge and you think I'm making fun of you.

Look buddy, I already went through everything you are going through and probably about to go through. This community as you can see now with over 4 pages, has given you all kinds of secrets and things (like the picture on the 1st page!!) that yes, most of us have learned by talking with and being with the Luthier while he works.. which by the way, is where you will finally learn the ultimate setup secrets direct from you luthier, who if he/she is in a Good mood, will actually show you the things and do it in front of you.


So, to think I'm making fun of you because I typed "haha" and asked you if you know how to setup a bridge, is a little too sensitive and especially with all the time I spent to type (and pictures) and am still typing to tell you things..

I've been through this buddy.. The luthier will tell you some things we can not because we can't see your bass in person and of course he has years of experiencing things with upright basses..

I urge you to not do this by the way!.. but the title of your post says it all again..
If you for some god knows reason why you can't wait till you see your luthier, then find something very heavy like a ton of big thick books or something that is 15-20lbs weight and put it very near where the sound post is on top of the bass right under the bridge feet.. **make sure to put a towel to not damage the top of the bass. and then loosen the strings enough only and try to fix the tail piece.. but this is pointless I feel and just wait for the luthier to look at it..


oh and here

(in-case anybody thinks i'm yelling or making fun of anything.)

I am enjoying your experience of getting a cheaper bass and having to go through and fix it.. so leave it at that please.. and like I said I want to hear all the luthier tells you when you go. That's ok right?

Ok, that's cool. Just remember that it's very easy sounding like a complete ass over the internet.
In any case, screwing up is always the best way to learn, ain't it?

That said yeah, I'm probably better off waiting till tuesday.

 

[drurb]

I don't agree. The one advice I disregarded was about only buying costlier basses. I am following the others.

The title of this thread-- which you created-- states that you disregarded the advice not to buy a cheapo bass. That's the only advice to which I referred. I don't see any logical basis for your disagreement. You said you disregarded the advice, I acknowledged that you disregarded it and you disagreed. Uh... no. As I said, you provide a case study in why one should not ignore the advice to steer clear of cheapo basses.

Now, as to the other advice, I see it as KUNGfu sees it:

You have serious professional players and luthiers responding to your post, trying to help you make the best of the bad situation you admit you got yourself into by ignoring the conventional wisdom, and you're arguing with them. Because you clearly know better, having bought a piece of crap that sounds and plays like poop...

It's no surprise that the previous owner gave up on it. Perhaps he/she didn't have access to the good advice that you ignored. In any case, he/she passed the problems on to you and got some cash for doing it. All while you were aware of the advice.

Yup, water under the bridge. You are where you are. What to do? I suggest that you not throw good money after bad.

 

[eukatheude]

The title of this thread-- which you created-- states that you disregarded the advice not to buy a cheapo bass. That's the only advice to which I referred. I don't see any logical basis for your disagreement. You said you disregarded the advice, I acknowledged that you disregarded it and you disagreed. Uh... no. As I said, you provide a case study in why one should not ignore the advice to steer clear of cheapo basses.

Now, as to the other advice, I see it as KUNGfu sees it:


It's no surprise that the previous owner gave up on it. Perhaps he/she didn't have access to the good advice that you ignored. In any case, he/she passed the problems on to you and got some cash for doing it. All while you were aware of the advice.

Yup, water under the bridge. You are where you are. What to do? I suggest that you not throw good money after bad.

Then there was a misunderstanding I assume.
As for what you quoted, there are also a few "serious professional players and luthiers" who responded to this thread who had a different opinion. And true, while you may know a lot better than me about anything about the DB, you have not seen this bass in person.
Considering the prices of renting a DB around here (and the ones I tried weren't much better than this one) if it lasts at least one year without exploding, I'd say I've had my money's worth.

 

[drurb]

Then there was a misunderstanding I assume.
As for what you quoted, there are also a few "serious professional players and luthiers" who responded to this thread who had a different opinion. And true, while you may know a lot better than me about anything about the DB, you have not seen this bass in person.
Considering the prices of renting a DB around here (and the ones I tried weren't much better than this one) if it lasts at least one year without exploding, I'd say I've had my money's worth.

Ah, the old internet argument, "but you haven't seen this one." I don't need to put my hand on the stove burner to know it'll get toasted. You are the one who determines if and when you've gotten your money's worth. It's also true that you don't miss what you don't know. I can only offer advice. Mine is that if you pour money into what you have, it'll be poor economy. If you don't, then I'm confident that you'll never really enjoy the essence of playing the DB with that instrument. Even the entry-level instruments often recommended here can deliver that. That's why we recommend them.

That's my advice. Take it or leave it. Whatever you decide, I hope it makes you happy and I wish you well.