• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

So it seems Warmoth has gotten the same price gouging as StewMac

#41
Guiseppe said:
I am talking about a soft plastic pad the size of the neck plate. I know that this part would take next to no storage space and would easily fit into a normal mailing envelope.
Click to expand...
A business cannot stick your part in an ordinary envelope and mail it to you with a 60¢ stamp.

Everything they send out has to be tracked and insured. They send out hundreds of packages per day, and obviously some percentage of that will get lost in transit. Can you imagine the reaction if they shipped parts without any tracking?

(And yes, there are definitely lots of Americans who would utterly lose their **** if their $2 part got lost in the mail, and didn't have a tracking number.)

That means they have to use Priority Mail, which starts at... wait for it... $7.64 per envelope/package for commercial pricing. On top of that, they have to take time and pay someone to process your order.

As to the distance? You will get the best price within your zone (~50 miles from where the package is sent). But the package still has to go to a distribution center, get sorted, then put on a truck that will drive to a thousand other buildings in your area, tracking and insuring the package en route. Meaning that it doesn't really cost the USPS all that much more to send a package 40 miles than it does 2 miles, hence the pricing.

So no, they aren't gouging you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ColdEye, /\/\3phist0, walterw and 4 others
#42
Guiseppe said:
I am talking about a soft plastic pad the size of the neck plate. I know that this part would take next to no storage space and would easily fit into a normal mailing envelope. After taking my order, the shipping address is in their system and the labor involved to address a shipping envelope would be limited to clicking 'Print', sticking said label on an envelope and affixing it to the envelope...so I don't personally feel there is that much labor necessary. Finally, shipping? I live 2 hours away. This is a piece of rubber. I don't live in Bangladesh.
np1p-a.jpg
Click to expand...

The next time you need a piece like this make friends with somebody with a 3D printer or hit up your local library. I could run off a piece like this in virtually no time and it would cost probably 20 or 40 cents in terms of material.

Just a suggestion anyhow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ColdEye
#44
brianrost said:
I’m a Prime member and not every low priced product that still ships free overnight is made in an Asian sweatshop. I’d be more worried about Amazon’s workers :meh:

Lip balm, $6

View attachment 5305114

Dental picks $7

View attachment 5305116

Ernie Ball slide $7

View attachment 5305118
Click to expand...
That would be reasonable if this thread were about lip balm, dental picks, or guitar slides.

Take a look at the inexpensive neck plates on Amazon and tell me where you think they are made. :)

EDIT, for the sake of accuracy I misunderstood what the OP meant, since I thought this thread was about neck plates, and not the pad that goes underneath.
 
Last edited:
#46
gln1955 said:
Do you think Warmoth makes all the little parts like this that they sell?
Click to expand...

I think I understand why you are asking, and my answer is "no," but there is a quality spectrum of Chinese goods, and I generally find that Amazon's are at the lowest-quality end.

Also, I would rather support Warmoth than Amazon -- partly for the above reason -- but perhaps that topic is best saved for a different conversation.
 
Last edited:
#49
TheArchitect said:
Shipping costs what it costs.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true if you’re talking about shipping costs charged to the customer.

More and more companies are viewing packing and shipping as potential profit centers these days. The advice they’re hearing from many business “coaches” and advisors is:

“Think FEE, not FREE.”
​
Inflating shipping charges is a favorite way of recouping money from items that were put on sale or advertised as “low prices.”
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Guiseppe
#50
Bruce Johnson said:
Do you guys understand the difference between the Shipping & Handling model vs the Free Shipping model?

For at least 100 years companies that do mail-order business have always used the Shipping & Handling model. From Sears Roebuck to McMasters to Stew-Mac, they've always traditionally used the Shipping & Handling model.

The Shipping & Handling charge is the entire cost of processing the order by mail. It includes logging in the order, printing the receipt and shipping label, the cost of the box and packing material, the labor to pack it, and...the shipping charge to USPS or UPS. It's the complete cost to them, of logging, packing and shipping your order.

The cost of the part, in their mail-order catalog, is the same as the cost of the same part over the counter in their brick & mortar store. And that's why they use the Shipping & Handling model. So the customer knows that the part is the same price in the store or by mail. But ordering by mail has the additional charge for the cost of packing and shipping it.

The important thing is that the Shipping & Handling charge is a single charge per order. It's not added per part or multiplied for multiple items. The charge only increases if the total weight or physical size of the box increases significantly.

So, yeah, if you order a single neck plate gasket for $5, the S & H charge may be $11. Which seems excessive, but that's what it actually costs them to process, pack and ship your order. But if you order 10 gaskets, the S & H charge will still be $11. If you order 100 it will probably still be $11. If you place an order for a bunch of different larger items, including the one gasket, the total S & H charge may be $13.

The Shipping & Handling charge is based on the size and weight of the box, not the number of items inside. Because that's how the shipping companies charge. For a small package, a S & H charge of $11 breaks down approximately as $4 for the shipping cost, $1 for the box & packing materials, and $6 for the labor to process the order, pick the stock, print the label & receipt, and pack the box. About 10 minutes labor. Which is what most small businesses will spend processing a mail order. That's fair and reasonable.

Then there's Free Shipping! I don't remember when it started, but Ebay went into it big back in the mid-'90's. Ebay started out as an auction site, basically doing the selling for tens of thousands of individuals and small businesses. Ebay was brokering the sale, but the individuals were doing their own shipping & handling of the stuff they sold. And, in the early days, most of the auctions listed the winning bid and the shipping & handling charge. And, yeah, you could win an auction for $5 and have to pay a $25 Shipping & Handling fee on it. The S & H fee depended on how big and heavy the item was and how far away it was. And it was understood that the S & H fee included the seller's cost to box it up, too.

Then Ebay suggested that the Sellers set their auction prices to include the Shipping & Handling. Then advertise the price as Free Shipping!!! And it worked. People tended to go for the auctions with Free Shipping!!! It wasn't really dishonest, but it was a marketing trick. You obviously were paying for the shipping in the auction price.

Then along came Amazon.....who took the idea several steps farther. Instead of brokering auctions of junk by individuals, they were listing and selling quantities of new products from tens of thousands of small businesses. Some of those businesses used the Shipping & Handling model, listing the Shipping cost separate from the product price. But Amazon convinced many of them to do Free Shipping!!!; that is, set their product price to include the Shipping & Handling cost. Because advertising Free Shipping!!! brought in more sales.

But this is where it starts getting shady. Because the S & H cost is built into the price of every single item, if you buy 10 things from one company, you are paying the S & H charge 10 times. Even if they ship them in one box.

The companies play around with their pricing, often barely making any profit on a single item sale, and betting on making big profits on bigger orders to a single customer. Because of that multiplication of the built-in S & H cost.

Amazon collects their money as a percentage of the selling price. That percentage varies by factors like quantity sold, price range, etc.

Amazon also offers their own Warehousing, Order Picking, and Shipping service. Companies can, if they choose, ship their pre-packaged products to Amazon, in bulk. Amazon then acts as the whole retail operation, storing the products, taking the orders, processing the money, packing the boxes, and shipping them in their own trucks. For providing this service, Amazon keeps a percentage of the money before sending it to the company.

It's a huge scale operation, so there's some efficiency in size. Their cost to Ship & Handle an order is lower than what a small business can do at home. But they are still applying that S & H fee to every single item. Even multiple of the same item in one box.

Is that more "fair" than the classic Shipping & Handling fee?

And then they introduced Prime with Free Shipping!!! You pay an annual fee for a license to be charged an averaged-out S & H fee on every item.

This all gets very confusing for a company like Stew-Mac. They sell their products over the counter in a store, online through their own web site, online through Amazon (with Stew-Mac doing the S & H) and also with some products stocked in Amazon's warehouse. All those have different pricing structures, but they try to line up their product prices to make sense. I don't see anything that Stew-Mac does as being outrageous or a rip-off. They are an old-fashioned company who sets their prices on what things cost and what they need to stay in business.

So many companies, particularly on Amazon, get into price wars trying to squeeze out market share. And then they go broke.

With all that said, I love Amazon, and I do about 70% of my annual purchasing on there. Mostly because it's just so convenient.
Click to expand...
Fantastic post. Part of me thinks this should be pinned, but at the very least saved for reference when ppl complain about things like this. Weel done..
 
  • Like
Reactions: /\/\3phist0 and 31HZ
#52
brianrost said:
We’ve all been spoiled by free shipping for so long.

Go to usps.com to see what it costs to ship something. They won’t give you a discount because what you're shipping is only worth $2.
Click to expand...

They also won’t give you a discount regardless of what you’re shipping because you’re a non commercial “retail” shipper who’s only shipping one or two items. Shipping is a volume driven industry. If Warmouth isn’t receiving significant discounts on shipping they either need a new shipping partner or a new CFO. ;)
 
#55
Bruce Johnson said:
Do you guys understand the difference between the Shipping & Handling model vs the Free Shipping model?

For at least 100 years companies that do mail-order business have always used the Shipping & Handling model. From Sears Roebuck to McMasters to Stew-Mac, they've always traditionally used the Shipping & Handling model.

The Shipping & Handling charge is the entire cost of processing the order by mail. It includes logging in the order, printing the receipt and shipping label, the cost of the box and packing material, the labor to pack it, and...the shipping charge to USPS or UPS. It's the complete cost to them, of logging, packing and shipping your order.

The cost of the part, in their mail-order catalog, is the same as the cost of the same part over the counter in their brick & mortar store. And that's why they use the Shipping & Handling model. So the customer knows that the part is the same price in the store or by mail. But ordering by mail has the additional charge for the cost of packing and shipping it.

The important thing is that the Shipping & Handling charge is a single charge per order. It's not added per part or multiplied for multiple items. The charge only increases if the total weight or physical size of the box increases significantly.

So, yeah, if you order a single neck plate gasket for $5, the S & H charge may be $11. Which seems excessive, but that's what it actually costs them to process, pack and ship your order. But if you order 10 gaskets, the S & H charge will still be $11. If you order 100 it will probably still be $11. If you place an order for a bunch of different larger items, including the one gasket, the total S & H charge may be $13.

The Shipping & Handling charge is based on the size and weight of the box, not the number of items inside. Because that's how the shipping companies charge. For a small package, a S & H charge of $11 breaks down approximately as $4 for the shipping cost, $1 for the box & packing materials, and $6 for the labor to process the order, pick the stock, print the label & receipt, and pack the box. About 10 minutes labor. Which is what most small businesses will spend processing a mail order. That's fair and reasonable.

Then there's Free Shipping! I don't remember when it started, but Ebay went into it big back in the mid-'90's. Ebay started out as an auction site, basically doing the selling for tens of thousands of individuals and small businesses. Ebay was brokering the sale, but the individuals were doing their own shipping & handling of the stuff they sold. And, in the early days, most of the auctions listed the winning bid and the shipping & handling charge. And, yeah, you could win an auction for $5 and have to pay a $25 Shipping & Handling fee on it. The S & H fee depended on how big and heavy the item was and how far away it was. And it was understood that the S & H fee included the seller's cost to box it up, too.

Then Ebay suggested that the Sellers set their auction prices to include the Shipping & Handling. Then advertise the price as Free Shipping!!! And it worked. People tended to go for the auctions with Free Shipping!!! It wasn't really dishonest, but it was a marketing trick. You obviously were paying for the shipping in the auction price.

Then along came Amazon.....who took the idea several steps farther. Instead of brokering auctions of junk by individuals, they were listing and selling quantities of new products from tens of thousands of small businesses. Some of those businesses used the Shipping & Handling model, listing the Shipping cost separate from the product price. But Amazon convinced many of them to do Free Shipping!!!; that is, set their product price to include the Shipping & Handling cost. Because advertising Free Shipping!!! brought in more sales.

But this is where it starts getting shady. Because the S & H cost is built into the price of every single item, if you buy 10 things from one company, you are paying the S & H charge 10 times. Even if they ship them in one box.

The companies play around with their pricing, often barely making any profit on a single item sale, and betting on making big profits on bigger orders to a single customer. Because of that multiplication of the built-in S & H cost.

Amazon collects their money as a percentage of the selling price. That percentage varies by factors like quantity sold, price range, etc.

Amazon also offers their own Warehousing, Order Picking, and Shipping service. Companies can, if they choose, ship their pre-packaged products to Amazon, in bulk. Amazon then acts as the whole retail operation, storing the products, taking the orders, processing the money, packing the boxes, and shipping them in their own trucks. For providing this service, Amazon keeps a percentage of the money before sending it to the company.

It's a huge scale operation, so there's some efficiency in size. Their cost to Ship & Handle an order is lower than what a small business can do at home. But they are still applying that S & H fee to every single item. Even multiple of the same item in one box.

Is that more "fair" than the classic Shipping & Handling fee?

And then they introduced Prime with Free Shipping!!! You pay an annual fee for a license to be charged an averaged-out S & H fee on every item.

This all gets very confusing for a company like Stew-Mac. They sell their products over the counter in a store, online through their own web site, online through Amazon (with Stew-Mac doing the S & H) and also with some products stocked in Amazon's warehouse. All those have different pricing structures, but they try to line up their product prices to make sense. I don't see anything that Stew-Mac does as being outrageous or a rip-off. They are an old-fashioned company who sets their prices on what things cost and what they need to stay in business.

So many companies, particularly on Amazon, get into price wars trying to squeeze out market share. And then they go broke.

With all that said, I love Amazon, and I do about 70% of my annual purchasing on there. Mostly because it's just so convenient.
Click to expand...
What a write up! Thanks for the explanatory breakdown.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joshua and /\/\3phist0
#56
Labor (and the "just drop it in an envelope and put some stamps on it!") idea:

Assume an employee making $20.00/hr. Payroll taxes and contributions by the employer will amount to another twenty to forty percent. If only twenty percent, that makes the cost to the company $24.00/hr. If it takes the employee five minutes to package, address, affix postage, and drop in the mail, the labor cost is $2.00.

That doesn't include the cost of the packaging. It doesn't include the cost of the postage.

It's easy to think that it takes no time at all to do these tasks. Try it and see if you can do it faster. Don't forget transporting the package to a mailbox.

Don't forget to include your "pay" for doing the task. Take your wages or salary including SSI, health care, 401K, etc. and figure out how much five minutes of your time is worth. Chances are it's more than two bucks.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Joshua and FRoss6788
#57
Another kudos to Bruce on his write up. This is why it's not easy to find cheap items in single quantities on Amzn with free shipping. You get fantastic prices, but for that neck plate, I'll bet you could get 5-10 for $20. That's how they work things now. Gotta have that quantity to satisfy the shipping/handling factor.
Screaming deals if you need the multiples. PITA if you only need one, 'cause you're going to get quantities by the dozen.

I couldn't resist checking, after typing the above, and
here it is - you could have gotten a 10 pack for $10:
https://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Plate-Gasket-Protective-Black/dp/B07TV2BNZ8/ref=sr_1_5?crid=WD1IYN8R5WMF&keywords=guitar+neck+plate+pad&qid=1704475672&sprefix=guitar+neck+plate+pad,aps,189&sr=8-5&th=1
 
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
#58
I know a guy who works for a locally owned small business - under 10 employees. Literally a homegrown mom and pop shop. He's in the shipping department. They're selling items of a particular niche to retail customers, but also municipalities and small governments, industrial clients, construction firms, etc.

Last time I talked with this guy, he told me that the business was making a killing - and particularly when it came to the shipping and handling aspects. If you're a retail customer - they're not doing you any favors. They're going to charge you an arbitrarily determined amount above their costs for packaging and shipping. (In addition to markup of the item of course.) If you're a big company, rest assured they are going to charge as much as they think they reasonably can for shipment. Many big companies and especially small governments won't bat an eye at outrageous shipping and handling.

This dude's job is literally to maximize the efficiency of their shipping process (reduce packing, qualify for cheaper rates) while charging the customer the same amount.

If you think some companies aren't making money off of shipping and handling - i would beg to differ. You may disagree with the business model...but the guy who owns this local firm just bought a nice new spread in a gated community up in the hills.

40Hz said:
Not necessarily true if you’re talking about shipping costs charged to the customer.

More and more companies are viewing packing and shipping as potential profit centers these days. The advice they’re hearing from many business “coaches” and advisors is:

“Think FEE, not FREE.”
​
Inflating shipping charges is a favorite way of recouping money from items that were put on sale or advertised as “low prices.”
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: ColdEye
#59
202dy said:
Labor (and the "just drop it in an envelope and put some stamps on it!") idea:

Assume an employee making $20.00/hr. Payroll taxes and contributions by the employer will amount to another twenty to forty percent. If only twenty percent, that makes the cost to the company $24.00/hr. If it takes the employee five minutes to package, address, affix postage, and drop in the mail, the labor cost is $2.00.

That doesn't include the cost of the packaging. It doesn't include the cost of the postage.

It's easy to think that it takes no time at all to do these tasks. Try it and see if you can do it faster. Don't forget transporting the package to a mailbox.

Don't forget to include your "pay" for doing the task. Take your wages or salary including SSI, health care, 401K, etc. and figure out how much five minutes of your time is worth. Chances are it's more than two bucks.
Click to expand...
EXACTLY this.

How entitled we are.

Just follow that little neck plate around on it's way to your doorstep for the minor cost of ten bucks.

A few key strokes from the comfort of your sofa, you didn't have to leave the house and drive around to find the thing.
Time and fuel.

I just don't get what the complaint is about here. At all.

Simple cost of convenience, you don't want to go get it, you pay to get it brought to you. Why should it be for free?
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back