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So the "soundman" say to me.....

#21
There is often an implicit assumption around here that the player is a moron and this his or her needs are always secondary to those of the sound guy/girl. Now, I will say, I have almost never had an attitude issue with a soundperson, but I tend to get along with pretty much everybody, and I don't make demands on people who I'm not paying. I have indeed had issues where the FOH sound was terrible, but it's not because they cut me out of the mix, more like they boosted the club-sounding lows. I wish the audience could always hear what I hear in my head, but at the end of the day I'm happy if I can hear myself.

I carry a micro amp and a 410 (soon to be a fEARful 15/6/1), so it's not a visually intimidating setup. Maybe that's part of it, an 810 is quite a statement to make. You would hope the sound person hears with their ears only, but... If it's for visual impact only, maybe put the 810 out there but play through something small. Lots of very successful bands have been doing that for years.
 
#22
TraceOnBass said:
We planned on using our studio recording along with some studio video and cut in and out of just the live video. Thus the use of full stacks for looks and such. The audio off the board was nothing more then to know where to que the the video when editing.
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Bad plan, IMO. There's no way in hell that that would ever synch up in anything close to a convincing manner unless the video is all long shots where the viewer can't see any detail.

But if that's what you were doing, why do you care what the live audio sounded like?
 
#23
ggunn said:
Bad plan, IMO. There's no way in hell that that would ever synch up in anything close to a convincing manner unless the video is all long shots where the viewer can't see any detail.

But if that's what you were doing, why do you care what the live audio sounded like?
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Ummm I still cared because we put on a show for people to come see us..... lol.
 
#25
ggunn said:
Bad plan, IMO. There's no way in hell that that would ever synch up in anything close to a convincing manner unless the video is all long shots where the viewer can't see any detail.
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not true... it can be done.

check out the video in my signature. It was done by syncing living room recorded multi track sound over video that was taken in the last 3 years. there's a couple spots where it gets just a little off, but in general I think its good.
 
#28
Kenner said:
Maybe next time you wanna try this. Get the FOH sound checked with ZERO stage volume from the bass and guitars, if possible. Then dial in your stage volumes to not supercede what is coming out of the house PA. I don't even bring an amp to probably half of my shows. Just my pedal board.
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I would advise doing the exact opposite of this.

Set up and get a stage mix where everything is comfortable and well mixed on stage. You want things sounding as close as possible to how things sound every time you play together as a band, at practice or whatever. So it sounds 'normal', whatever that is for you guys. Bring up the monitors so they are getting you what you need to hear at this level.

After everybody can hear themselves and the sound is good on stage, bring up the sound reinforcement to fill the hall.

If your soundguy can't pull a mix together using this procedure either: 1. he sucks, 2. you suck, or 3. both.
 
#29
projectMalamute said:
I would advise doing the exact opposite of this.

Set up and get a stage mix where everything is comfortable and well mixed on stage. You want things sounding as close as possible to how things sound every time you play together as a band, at practice or whatever. So it sounds 'normal', whatever that is for you guys. Bring up the monitors so they are getting you what you need to hear at this level.

After everybody can hear themselves and the sound is good on stage, bring up the sound reinforcement to fill the hall.

If your soundguy can't pull a mix together using this procedure either: 1. he sucks, 2. you suck, or 3. both.
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This.
 
#30
You shoulda threw the sound guy a $50.00 bill and you would have what you want..... my band always pulls the soundguy to side and give him anywhere from $20.00 to $50.00... we usually have the best mix of the night..... trust me, you don't want to make enemies with the sound guys.....
 
#31
tdub0199 said:
You shoulda threw the sound guy a $50.00 bill and you would have what you want..... my band always pulls the soundguy to side and give him anywhere from $20.00 to $50.00... we usually have the best mix of the night..... trust me, you don't want to make enemies with the sound guys.....
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Yup...We always try to take care of the sound guys. After getting to know them, you can just hook them up with a bottle of their favorite drink, and they will remember you. I've always found it good practice to take care of the people who take care of you. Same goes for bartenders/servers.
 
#32
KingRazor said:
People do that all the time in the entertainment business...
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Even if you try really hard to play the song at the same tempo, if you let a shot go for more than a few seconds, it's going to be way out of synch. Plus very few singers replicate their timing exactly. I've seen stuff done this way, usually on access television, and it looks terrible.

What you can do is play the studio version over the monitors really loud and play along with it so that the video will somewhat synch with the audio, but you really don't want to do that at a gig.

To do it where it looks and sounds professional isn't easy or cheap.
 
#33
ggunn said:
You are much better off using a stereo pair of mics in that situation. Better yet, record multichannel audio so you can synch up and mix it later.
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I'd say do both of these, unless you have a dedicated guy to set the levels for the multichannel tracked recording, and he has the proper kind of headphones (or a truck outside the venue) to defeat leakage from the stage/FOH.

The stereo condensers will get a good sound if the FOH engineer isn't one of those "mix with his eyes" kinds of idiots. Ugh.

You should have told the guy the stacks were just for the video, and that your rig has numerous volume knobs with which to get a great sound balance. You shouldn't have had to tell him that, but you could have tried to reassure him.
 
#35
ggunn said:
Even if you try really hard to play the song at the same tempo, if you let a shot go for more than a few seconds, it's going to be way out of synch. Plus very few singers replicate their timing exactly. I've seen stuff done this way, usually on access television, and it looks terrible.

What you can do is play the studio version over the monitors really loud and play along with it so that the video will somewhat synch with the audio, but you really don't want to do that at a gig.

To do it where it looks and sounds professional isn't easy or cheap.
Click to expand...

It can be both easy and cheap if your band is very well-rehearsed and plays to a click. Have done this plenty of times without issue. If you're doing multi-angle video right (*any* kind of video), you're not staying on any one shot longer than about 5 seconds anyway, so sync issues can fade away pretty quickly in that case. But again, start with a well-rehearsed band that plays to a click and played to one in the studio.
 
#36
For an audio track on video, this is the perfect place for a Zoom H4 on a mic stand in the house. Record the camera internal mic & the shotgun on separate channels to augment the mid & hi frequencies in post production. Bash a cymbal hard once to create an audio sync event. 8-)

FWIW, the house audio is for the house, not your promo material. It's like paying the bank's lawyer at a real estate closing & believing the lawyer also represents your interests. That is only so when the best interest of the bank & yourself are the same. On stage, you cannot know what the audience is hearing. You can be sure the house owner will now if the house sound is bad. It isn't reasonable to expect the house to engineer your sound recording. Best to bring your own audio gear. As I said up front, the H4 or similar DAR, really shines in this situation.
 
#37
As much as I detest most soundmen, the bottom line is that he can make you sound bad and there is NOTHING you can do to him, except fire him if you hired him, and by then it's too late.

So, your best shot at sounding good is to swallow your pride, pray that he's a professional, kiss his a$$, and hope for the best. :D

Anything else is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Just an opinion from some guy on the internet, your experience may vary.
 
#39
How do you know what the FOH sounded like??

You were on the stage, so you were hearing stage + monitor. Anything you heard on a recording from the board is only 1/2 the story because none of the stage volume (that makes up quite a bit of the FOH sound) was included in that recording.

Mic the room if you want a recording.
 
#40
Yeah I would recommend 2 mixers for this application. One for the house the other for the record feed using an xlr splitter.

Since I been on both sides of the coin (being a sound guy and musician), I have seen sound guys and musicians be ass-hats. I truly believe that this is a hospitality business for both the musician and sound guy which you deal with people all the time doing either or both. I think being polite and respectful goes a long way in the entertainment business, unfortunately there is a lot of people who lack those qualities.
 

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