So what do YOU call this scale?

[fretlessman71]

I learned a lesson on FB this week: If you want a real-world working answer to a music theory question, don't ask music theorists.

Almost everyone here knows the Minor Pentatonic scale: 1, b3, 4, 5, b7, 1.

If you know that one, it's very likely you also know the Blues Scale, which adds a single chromatic note between the 4 & 5: 1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7, 1.

Now, for my question: there are at least two well known songs - Iron Man and What You're Doing - that use a variation of the blues scale mentioned above, by adding a second chromatic note between the b7 and the octave 1: 1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7, 7, 1. I have no doubt there are others - possibly countless others.

Since the benchmark for a scale getting a name seems to be how widespread the usage is, I figure this MUST have been named somewhere along the line. (We already have "Gnarly Charley" waiting in the wings if no previous name has already been given...)

 

[Nashrakh]

I've always thought of it as an extended blues scale, since the added chromatic step is just another blue note in there.

 

[fretlessman71]

I've always thought of it as an extended blues scale, since the added chromatic step is just another blue note in there.

That's how I think of it as well, but I know I've heard things like "double blues scale" thrown around, which is at once descriptive and confusing...

 

[MonetBass]

The b5 is known as "the blues note". That's how my brain sees it, anyway.

EDIT: And that 3 is just a m3 since it's the minor pentatonic we're talking about.

 

[fretlessman71]

The b5 is known as "the blues note". That's how my brain sees it, anyway.

EDIT: And that 3 is just a m3 since it's the minor pentatonic we're talking about.

The "b" is the best I can do for a flat symbol. As in, 1, flat 3, 4, flat 5, 5, flat 7, 1.

And the added note in question is a NATURAL 7 which isn't present in what we call the Blues Scale, but sure seems to turn up in an awful lot of songs.

 

[MonetBass]

The "b" is the best I can do for a flat symbol. As in, 1, flat 3, 4, flat 5, 5, flat 7, 1.

Oh, I got that. But it's a minor scale, so it would be notated a m3 (minor 3rd).

 

[Lee Moses]

It seems I've occasionally seen minor blues scales shown with the natural 7 included. I suppose that's what I'd call it, with or without the natural 7.

 

[Lobster11]

This might be the kind of academic answer that OP wanted to avoid but, according to Wikipedia,

The term blues scale refers to several different scales with differing numbers of pitches and related characteristics. A blues scale is often formed by the addition of an out-of-key "blue note" to an existing scale, notably the flat fifth addition to the minor pentatonic scale.​

Of course, Wikipedia shouldn't necessarily be regarded as a definitive source, but if we accept this then what many of us call THE blues scale isn't really THE blues scale, and the one OP is asking about is just another "blues scale."

That said, if it is common enough it probably deserves its own name but I don't know what that is.

 

[fretlessman71]

Oh, I got that. But it's a minor scale, so it would be notated a m3 (minor 3rd).

"Flat 3rd" is part of verbal jazz shorthand. Implies the same thing.

 

[MonetBass]

"Flat 3rd" is part of verbal jazz shorthand. Implies the same thing.

Or if you're in a minor key, you could just simply say "3rd".

 

[fretlessman71]

Or if you're in a minor key, you could just simply say "3rd".

That's the point, though; most blues songs are NOT in a minor key, yet the "blues scale" is the preferred soloing vehicle.

 

[fretlessman71]

That's the point, though; most blues songs are NOT in a minor key, yet the "blues scale" is the preferred soloing vehicle.

Furthermore, many songs float between minor and major keys in various parts of the progression, so "flat 3" is a way to describe a note 3 semitones above the root, regardless of the key or chord in question. It saves time and thwarts those who actively seek to misunderstand.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I learned a lesson on FB this week: If you want a real-world working answer to a music theory question, don't ask music theorists.

Almost everyone here knows the Minor Pentatonic scale: 1, b3, 4, 5, b7, 1.

If you know that one, it's very likely you also know the Blues Scale, which adds a single chromatic note between the 4 & 5: 1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7, 1.

Now, for my question: there are at least two well known songs - Iron Man and What You're Doing - that use a variation of the blues scale mentioned above, by adding a second chromatic note between the b7 and the octave 1: 1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7, 7, 1. I have no doubt there are others - possibly countless others.

Since the benchmark for a scale getting a name seems to be how widespread the usage is, I figure this MUST have been named somewhere along the line. (We already have "Gnarly Charley" waiting in the wings if no previous name has already been given...)

Depends on the rhythms, how many beats each note gets

 

[Spin Doctor]

That's the point, though; most blues songs are NOT in a minor key, yet the "blues scale" is the preferred soloing vehicle.

Well I don't know that the blues scale is necessarily a "preferred" method of soloing, but it is one aspect. If you transcribe Miles Davis solo on Freddy Freeloader, you will see that he moves between major pentatonic, minor pentatonic, the blues scale, and melodic minor. It's not a difficult solo to learn and analyze so it's worth checking out.

 

[monsterthompson]

OP asks about the 7 and gets into more chatter about the 3.

 

[lermgalieu]

I typically hear that natural 7 used as a passing tone, and as such wouldn't really think of it as part of the scale per se.

 

[Pings Bass]

I typically hear that natural 7 used as a passing tone, and as such wouldn't really think of it as part of the scale per se.

Came here to say just that. Don't over analyze it. Musical phrases don't have to fit into a scale.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Came here to say just that. Don't over analyze it. Musical phrases don't have to fit into a scale.

I was going to say that same thing. It's just something that you can learn and use without thinking about it too much.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I'll ditto what the last three posters said / typed.

 

[fretlessman71]

Depends on the rhythms, how many beats each note gets

It really doesn't. It's a scale, a set of notes