So you wanna make the audience deaf too?

[DWBass]

Kenny G, skills??? Find out what Pat Metheny thinks about that. Maybe marketing skills.

Slight derail: I would hardly consider Pat Metheny an expert! His comments are filled with anger and resentment. Whether you dig Kenny G or not, the man can play and he's done his time playing in road bands and playing for some top artists (Barry White, Jeff Lorber, Rippingtons among others). I like Pat Metheny's music but he was off base with his comments and it seemed a lot of folks jumped on his bandwagon. Pat doesn't speak for me!

Derail over......carry on.

 

[DWBass]

IMO, it's not the band's that are loud but the FOH soundguys who just don't know how to mix! Even a Jazz concerts. I saw the Rippingtons a couple years ago at a jazz fest. For some reason, the sound man had the bass beyond booming! I was sitting not far from the whee the mixing board was and I kept looking at the guy and giving him the "dude, what's up with the bass?" look! LOL! He just sat there. It couldn't have been just me who heard it! SMH!

 

[s_mcsleazy]

the problem with my band is the guitar play. me and the drummer can sound good playing together at a reasonable volume but then out guitar player comes in with 2 marshall fullstacks at 10 and a fuzzbox at 12

 

[KayXero]

Kenny G, skills??? Find out what Pat Metheny thinks about that. Maybe marketing skills.

Anyway, being loud is one way to compensate for playing bad, indeed.

Your opinion....meh

When you sell 75 Million albums and can play like he does then I will consider your opinion and Pat's valid....tell then

IDGAS....figure out that acronym.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWBass
Kenny G......absolutely perfect
Maybe it took the FOH guy that long to get it right.

 

[billoetjen]

We play disgustingly loud. A lot of places we play for the first time we get "You're the loudest band to ever play here."

I think it's awesome but we're a metal band, it's kinda par for the course....

You're stupid

 

[ksandvik]

Your opinion....meh

When you sell 75 Million albums and can play like he does then I will consider your opinion and Pat's valid....tell then

IDGAS....figure out that acronym.

I don't want to play like Kenny G -- have a high regard for integrity in music.

As for acronyms, Google search is for that.

Going back to loudness. I strongly recommend any band to at least start taking down volumes in rehearsals. You hear a lot of interesting things missed in high volume settings.

 

[FuManChu]

How many people on here have had a club owner come up to the band and say, "please turn up, nobody can hear you?" Probably 0 as most bands stage sound is way too loud. As a bassist and also a soundman I would say that small to medium size club sound issues are usually the FOH trying to compete with the backline. Turn down your amps and let the PA do the work. It took me awhile to realize the merits of having the stage sound be tame and well dispersed vs. trying to replace the usefuleness of the PA by cranking my rig. As for big gigs, that is a whole different can of worms if you have bad sound.

 

[JohnMCA72]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWBass
Kenny G......absolutely perfect
Maybe it took the FOH guy that long to get it right.

Maybe that's who was paying!

 

[JohnMCA72]

...
Going back to loudness. I strongly recommend any band to at least start taking down volumes in rehearsals. You hear a lot of interesting things missed in high volume settings.

+1. Excess volume can hide a lot of crap. It's easier to hide the crap with volume than to actually clean it up!

 

[GregShadoan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWBass
Kenny G......absolutely perfect
Maybe it took the FOH guy that long to get it right.

Kenny G has his own sound guy. And monitor guy. They are good engineers. That's why their sound was good. As to the other acts, I do not know them.

Excessive low end, or volume in general is not necessary. . It's a sign of inexperienced sound engineers, and bands.

Pro act's generally have good overall balance.

Some rooms do not lend themselves to good sound, and it takes experience to overcome those challenges. YMMV.

 

[SactoBass]

Anyway, being loud is one way to compensate for playing bad.

Yep. If ya can't dazzle 'em with talent, try and impress the audience with wattage! Real skill, eh?

It's a cover up for poor musicianship (or it's immaturity...or both).

Part of being a talented musician is knowing how to make it sound good out in the audience area.

 

[Metal Matt]

immature bollox imo....thats not how you get fans...some people want to be able to distinguish different instruments and enjoy a show without going deaf.

Im sick of the Metal = loud garbage too. Sure you can be a high volume that sounds fun without needing to be "disgustingly loud" which is unnecessary

If you want to harm your audience and your own hearing as well...fine by me. Down the line you will regret it though, as a ton of older musicians with crap hearing will tell you.

For what it's worth, there ARE some genres of music where immense volume is necessary. The purpose is to move way more air than a typical show. Doom metal bands usually play around 115-120db's and drone bands like Sunn play at 125. It's about creating a physical element to the music that isn't felt in other genres, or at least not felt so forcefully. And usually everyone at these shows is wearing earplugs. Those that don't, go home with 2 days of ringing ears. The way I see it, it's their choice. You see a wall of amps in a tiny bar it might be a good idea to get some earplugs from the club.

As far as the idea that loud always equals lousy sound, I call bs. I've seen plenty of bands, with thousands of pounds worth of backline that play off mostly stage volume that knew how to set their volumes and tones to each other so you could hear everyone, and so there isn't any sort of undesirable distortion going on. Never had trouble telling what a band was playing because of their volume except for the ones that didn't pay attention to the fact that getting a "clean" sound out of a pile of distortion and fuzz takes a little work. Unless you want mud... I think that's fine too.

 

[KayXero]

by all means go deaf and do the same to the audience. 115 db concerts are unnecessary and dangerous. You can get a great show at more healthy levels as well. Meh.

btw...20 bucks says that lady in the pic is deaf by 40 if she plays in front of cabs stacked liked that and loud like you mention all the time. Even with earplugs, they can only cut so much.

Have fun ending up like Pete townsend and having to quit music.

EDIT: and most clubs dont offer ear plugs. Thats why I have my own. So what are most patrons to do who forget their own or need them once the volume is too loud. They leave and you lose fans.

 

[Rockmusician]

Because most bands have no idea how to set up their sound properly. Most crank their stage volume up so loud that even if they are running through a P.A. it sounds like crap. Everyone is fighting each other in order to be heard. There is no need of it.

Look at guys like Eric Clapton. His entire band plays through small combo amps at low to moderate volume. They let the P.A. do the work.

 

[ksandvik]

I've been to metal concerts, in smaller pubs, too. I guess I'm getting old but the musicality behind such performances was mostly a wall of air that was pushed against the audience over and over. I prefer musical finesse myself, even in metal music. Otherwise might as well put a CD with sine waves and push that over the audience for two hours.

 

[Metal Matt]

by all means go deaf and do the same to the audience. 115 db concerts are unnecessary and dangerous. You can get a great show at more healthy levels as well. Meh.

btw...20 bucks says that lady in the pic is deaf by 40 if she plays in front of cabs stacked liked that and loud like you mention all the time. Even with earplugs, they can only cut so much.

Have fun ending up like Pete townsend and having to quit music.

Unnecessary? I told you the reason some bands choose to play so loud. To vibrate everything and everyone in the room. At these volumes earplugs barely change the tone of everything, just the volume. So you put in earplugs, you have the massive air movement, without the damaged hearing. All of these bands doing this are wearing earplugs and so are most people in the audience.

To put it another way, it's about turning everyone in the room into this guy...

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

There is this strange ethos in some genres that if it isn't loud enough to cause pain, it isn't a show.

I've never liked that (even when I was young) and I now pay for my tolerance of that volume with tinnitus (my ears are ringing even as I type). I'm sure that there are those, reading right this moment, who will say "Hey - it's METAL, man!!!". Well, enjoy those hearing aids.

 

[billoetjen]

Maybe I'm stupid.

I gotta be missing something, but I don't get the logic behind buying enough power to deliver an extra 20 to 30 dB, and then using something to attenuate it in your ears.

Nah, just kidding. That stuff makes tons of sense.

PS, I'm exiting because I'm smart.

 

[KayXero]

Unnecessary? I told you the reason some bands choose to play so loud. To vibrate everything and everyone in the room. At these volumes earplugs barely change the tone of everything, just the volume. So you put in earplugs, you have the massive air movement, without the damaged hearing. All of these bands doing this are wearing earplugs and so are most people in the audience.

To put it another way, it's about turning everyone in the room into this guy...

WOW are you thick. Its still stupid. earplugs at best only attenuate 30 dbs....and not even the best ones for music only do 22 to 25 of actual db reduction. Subtract that from your 125 db show and you are still over the safe threshold of 80 db and on your way to hearing damage.

Hell dude....ive been to over 100 db shows....A show at 105 db can move a bunch of air fine. Its not needed to go so far beyond that. For every few more decibals its like 20% louder. Read up about this stuff bro


EDIT: btw bone conduction and all that noise not escaping vibration through the ear canal due to the plugs just adds to the danger. But hell, if thats how loud you want it, then there will be a ton of def rockers in my generation. Its funny how our (people in their 20s) grandparents used to tell our parents their 70s and 80s music in the head phones would make them deaf.