Actually, that was a very appropriate response to some who is being a dick. Why are people defending this guy?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
So You Went To An "Open" Jam.......
- Thread starter ZenG
- Start date
Actually, that was a very appropriate response to some who is being a dick. Why are people defending this guy?
Not all jams are equal, some are more pedestrian, and others attract top flight players. Depending on your experience level, neither of these is going to hurt you.
Another aspect of having real "musical experience" is playing with unfamiliar people in unfamiliar circumstances; you learn something valuable there, especially as a bassist. Since, as a pro or semi-pro bass player, or even an an ameteur that others will want to play with, you will NEED to be able to just show up, plug in, and sound like you've been playing with this outfit for years (whether on stage or in the studio). So, don't look down on honing your skills at faking it in an unfamiliar tune-- this is valuable experience.
And as bass players, accompanying is the great skill we have, and I am surprised at how many instrumentalists with some chops cannot accompany effectively-- because they know know what they know and do what they do, but aren't used to doing what someone else does. This is what will get you phone calls for work-- people knowing you can make them sound good, regardless of what they are doing.
Non-singers do not call the tunes, that is pretty standard. Bear in mind the non-singing guitar player or drummer isn't calling tunes either.
Yes, occasionally the musicianship at a jam can be a little lame some times, other times, not. An experienced jam host will be good at pairing players with similar talent levels and interests when at all possible, especially once they've seen you play a time or two.
NETWORKING is the best reason to go, in addition to just breaking a sweat if you have had a layoff for a while. Soon you'll find you get to know some of the players and the jams are then just fun among friends.
So, Come On Down! to The Brink Lounge, Madison Wisconsin, every 1st Thursday of the month. There. I plugged the jam I and a couple of fellers host. See you there.
Another aspect of having real "musical experience" is playing with unfamiliar people in unfamiliar circumstances; you learn something valuable there, especially as a bassist. Since, as a pro or semi-pro bass player, or even an an ameteur that others will want to play with, you will NEED to be able to just show up, plug in, and sound like you've been playing with this outfit for years (whether on stage or in the studio). So, don't look down on honing your skills at faking it in an unfamiliar tune-- this is valuable experience.
And as bass players, accompanying is the great skill we have, and I am surprised at how many instrumentalists with some chops cannot accompany effectively-- because they know know what they know and do what they do, but aren't used to doing what someone else does. This is what will get you phone calls for work-- people knowing you can make them sound good, regardless of what they are doing.
Non-singers do not call the tunes, that is pretty standard. Bear in mind the non-singing guitar player or drummer isn't calling tunes either.
Yes, occasionally the musicianship at a jam can be a little lame some times, other times, not. An experienced jam host will be good at pairing players with similar talent levels and interests when at all possible, especially once they've seen you play a time or two.
NETWORKING is the best reason to go, in addition to just breaking a sweat if you have had a layoff for a while. Soon you'll find you get to know some of the players and the jams are then just fun among friends.
So, Come On Down! to The Brink Lounge, Madison Wisconsin, every 1st Thursday of the month. There. I plugged the jam I and a couple of fellers host. See you there.
Network, network and network. Great opportunity to meet talented musicians. Great opportunity to learn new stuff. I see open jams as sharpening tools: they help me get better. Some nights can be long but there's always something positive out of them. You have to take advantage of such events. And it's a night out of your home, a night of entertainment.
Be open minded and have fun...isn't that what jamming is all about? I enjoy open jams because it throws new challenges at me. But I go for fun not to critique the level of talent in the room.
I gig enough that I don't go to jams often, but if I have had a layoff I will go... and if some people I know and want to hang with for a night are hosting, I'll go say howdy, and play a few tunes. It helps them by making sure there are enough jammers and we get to socialize. And when you show up for somebody else's thing, they'll come when you need them to show for something. Karma.
I think the OP hurt some open jammers little feelings.
Seroiusly, ***. He didn't say open jams are just a bunch of people awkwardly fumbling through shopworn blues tracks. He said that was what he envisions it to be and wanted to hear from people who had attended them. Presumably because he would like to go to some.
There was nothing stupid about that. These hateful responses baffle me. What a bunch of babies.
I enjoy some of the open jams in Connecticut at Blues and Rock jams. You never know who you are going to play with and what you are going to play so it requires quick thinking and can provide an adrenaline rush at times . Sometimes you can get hooked up with incredible pros-sometimes you can get hooked up with the acoustic guitar playing kid who does not tune normally, invented his own chords, and plays his original songs and you are stuck with this kid for your 3 song turn for the night because there are 4 other bass players waiting to play. I have met some real good people there and have gotten bass fill in gigs from people who have heard me play,
I love to jam, but I hate when it's too codified. I'm mostly a rock player but I enjoy stepping out of my comfort zone - have ended up playing zouk, hip-hop and reggae (none of which I know how to play) at a recent jam. Loved the spontaneity and met some great people.
However playing existing songs accurately is not how I see jamming. Borrowing a chord progression from a song as a guideline is cool. Same for lyrics. But please don't try to teach me the whole song before we even begin to play.
Also blues isn't my thing. I can take one or two a night, but if a guitar player goes on displaying all his licks for 5 minutes I'll look at the drummer the "can we end this?" way. If the drummer's unresponsive I'll wait another couple minutes (while looking increasingly bored) before walking off stage.
Bearing that in mind, except when a buddy calls me to the rescue to fill in as host I stick to an underground community of people jamming at each other's places (studio, house, garden...). People are usually free to invite their own friends (within what the place can reasonnably accomodate) so it does lead to interresting encounters while avoiding most of the downsides.
If there is such a comunity in your town, showing up at an open jam, socializing and being a good guy will most likely be your ticket.
However playing existing songs accurately is not how I see jamming. Borrowing a chord progression from a song as a guideline is cool. Same for lyrics. But please don't try to teach me the whole song before we even begin to play.
Also blues isn't my thing. I can take one or two a night, but if a guitar player goes on displaying all his licks for 5 minutes I'll look at the drummer the "can we end this?" way. If the drummer's unresponsive I'll wait another couple minutes (while looking increasingly bored) before walking off stage.
Bearing that in mind, except when a buddy calls me to the rescue to fill in as host I stick to an underground community of people jamming at each other's places (studio, house, garden...). People are usually free to invite their own friends (within what the place can reasonnably accomodate) so it does lead to interresting encounters while avoiding most of the downsides.
If there is such a comunity in your town, showing up at an open jam, socializing and being a good guy will most likely be your ticket.
Last edited:
Hurt feelings or not...the response was accurate and I believe intended to be helpful. If you want to find out what an open jam is like, you just gotta go check em out. They are different everywhere and you'll get accounts of good and bad experiences from all over the map.
Agreed that not all jams are created equal. A lot of it comes down to whomever is hosting and their circle of musical contacts. The house band and the venue set the tone for a jam. Some house bands are playing a lot of the same old bar band fare, while others are pretty interesting and diverse. But most of all they can be excellent for networking and getting to know some new/good musicians. That's never a bad thing.
I've been to some that are just train wrecks from the word go. That almost always has something to do with a host who just doesn't have their act together, and it reflects on the rest of the experience. Good players may check out jams like these from time to time, but the train wreck host and the chaotic environment they create around themselves just sours the situation and it drives away the good players. But jams like these are where you might find some novice/inexperienced players who *MAY* have some potential to do something good. These low end jams can give someone a chance to get that playing time with other musicians to develop into better players.
On the other end of the spectrum I've played jams where you're sitting in with SERIOUS players. Like Grammy nominated guys. And those situations can be like lots of others. Most people are cool, others not so much. I've been able to play at jams like this where the song choices are a little more open, and more often than not things are going to be interesting. If you're a good player and you can improvise reasonably well you're probably going to have a good time. And meeting other musicians is a big bonus, too. I've gotten a good number of gig offers from going to jams and made some good friends, too.
Some of the finer points? Again, a lot of it comes down to the host. Good hosts have to do a lot of things:
-Have a good opening set to get the night rolling
-Put together sets of musicians who will probably work well together
-Control the volume
-Manage the set length
-Try to get everyone who wants to play a chance to do just that.
There's also downsides. Some jams get clique-ish. Some more experienced musicians can get really impatient with novices. That can be annoying if you're trying to break in. But sometimes if you show that you can play, you can win a lot of people over.
I've been to some that are just train wrecks from the word go. That almost always has something to do with a host who just doesn't have their act together, and it reflects on the rest of the experience. Good players may check out jams like these from time to time, but the train wreck host and the chaotic environment they create around themselves just sours the situation and it drives away the good players. But jams like these are where you might find some novice/inexperienced players who *MAY* have some potential to do something good. These low end jams can give someone a chance to get that playing time with other musicians to develop into better players.
On the other end of the spectrum I've played jams where you're sitting in with SERIOUS players. Like Grammy nominated guys. And those situations can be like lots of others. Most people are cool, others not so much. I've been able to play at jams like this where the song choices are a little more open, and more often than not things are going to be interesting. If you're a good player and you can improvise reasonably well you're probably going to have a good time. And meeting other musicians is a big bonus, too. I've gotten a good number of gig offers from going to jams and made some good friends, too.
Some of the finer points? Again, a lot of it comes down to the host. Good hosts have to do a lot of things:
-Have a good opening set to get the night rolling
-Put together sets of musicians who will probably work well together
-Control the volume
-Manage the set length
-Try to get everyone who wants to play a chance to do just that.
There's also downsides. Some jams get clique-ish. Some more experienced musicians can get really impatient with novices. That can be annoying if you're trying to break in. But sometimes if you show that you can play, you can win a lot of people over.
I completely agree with you. That guy seems to make a habit of needlessly adding unpleasantness where it doesn't belong.
To all those supporting the unprovoked name-calling: the OP was admitting his ignorance and his assumptions, and wanting to hear the real story from people who'd experienced it. By asking for the stories of others, he is already acknowledging that he doesn't, in fact, really know what open jams are like.
Thankfully, most people here readily understood that very clear intent, and are being helpful.
I think eriky4003 has the best idea - go check them out without an instrument. You can see how they're run, and also see who comes to watch them and what they do or don't get into. That will give you information not just about who's putting on the show, but whether the audience goes for what you go for.
give it a try ... don't ' assume ' ... not trying is much worse ... !!
the only way you'll make an informed decision is to go check it out ... ! as most have said , they'll all different .. !?!!
if you walk in timid and fearful , you're in trouble ... be confident and just play ... ! which might be easier to say for me since i've played multiple instruments for 50+ yrs ... i'll quickly figure out the key and then i should know most of those common chords almost instantly ... plus i can watch the guitar or keys left hand if i'm need more hints ... whether you're here or at a jam , ... thin skin doesn't bode well ...
the only way you'll make an informed decision is to go check it out ... ! as most have said , they'll all different .. !?!!
if you walk in timid and fearful , you're in trouble ... be confident and just play ... ! which might be easier to say for me since i've played multiple instruments for 50+ yrs ... i'll quickly figure out the key and then i should know most of those common chords almost instantly ... plus i can watch the guitar or keys left hand if i'm need more hints ... whether you're here or at a jam , ... thin skin doesn't bode well ...
I used to go to a few different open jams in MN about10-12 years ago, one was a open metal/hard rock jam northeast Minneapolis called "motley Tuesdays" hosted by my old guitarist and a few guys from the band Flipp who started a cover band named "S@$%"(lol) were the house band, they play *lots* of kiss songs, even of the former members of "Babes in Toyland" was a barmaid!!
Anyways, it was a fun time and a great place to network, and it was always packed!! Yeah, it was cliquish kinda, but really they'd let anyone up there, met some d-bags of course, even some older and very jealous bassists, one white haired old guy who said he *taught* Billy Sheehan (LOL) tried to pants me when I was going on after him(it didn't work with my belt hahaha!!), but most of the time it was just awesome party, lots of drinking, smoking, debauchery, etc, for an early 20's musician, plus i learned a bunch of 70's era Kiss..
Others I've been to were straight up blues and oldies which can be real challenging if its not a standard chord progression or some oddball amount of measures(not all blues are "sweet home Chicago", sorry
) one in particular was a 60's era Elvis song that was very challenging! I went to one like this in st Paul park and it was cool(not as much as the metal one though), the host band was ran by this old blues guitarist who was great but really cranky(get offa my lawn type LOL), but I even gotta sub for the house bassist a few times and got paid a little!!
And then you had Jazz open jams, I remember the very first one I went to when I knew nothing about jazz, a guitarist insisted I get up there even though I couldn't read charts at the time, that was rough, later ended up on drums, ill just say it was a learning experience that night that has stuck with me to this day!!
Anyways I learned that its really best to just learn whatever repertoire is common at any particular jam instead of trying to "wing it"(unless your just that badass), and it really can be super fun... I haven't gone to one in years because I've been playing out so regularly, but once things settle down for me I'm gonna go seek some out because it really is *that much fun*, YMMV of course
Anyways, it was a fun time and a great place to network, and it was always packed!! Yeah, it was cliquish kinda, but really they'd let anyone up there, met some d-bags of course, even some older and very jealous bassists, one white haired old guy who said he *taught* Billy Sheehan (LOL) tried to pants me when I was going on after him(it didn't work with my belt hahaha!!), but most of the time it was just awesome party, lots of drinking, smoking, debauchery, etc, for an early 20's musician, plus i learned a bunch of 70's era Kiss..
Others I've been to were straight up blues and oldies which can be real challenging if its not a standard chord progression or some oddball amount of measures(not all blues are "sweet home Chicago", sorry
) one in particular was a 60's era Elvis song that was very challenging! I went to one like this in st Paul park and it was cool(not as much as the metal one though), the host band was ran by this old blues guitarist who was great but really cranky(get offa my lawn type LOL), but I even gotta sub for the house bassist a few times and got paid a little!!And then you had Jazz open jams, I remember the very first one I went to when I knew nothing about jazz, a guitarist insisted I get up there even though I couldn't read charts at the time, that was rough, later ended up on drums, ill just say it was a learning experience that night that has stuck with me to this day!!
Anyways I learned that its really best to just learn whatever repertoire is common at any particular jam instead of trying to "wing it"(unless your just that badass), and it really can be super fun... I haven't gone to one in years because I've been playing out so regularly, but once things settle down for me I'm gonna go seek some out because it really is *that much fun*, YMMV of course
Last edited:
Also, at many of the jams in my area, there are whole bands, and forming bands. I have been offered membership and sub gigs on occasion.
I have found subs for other bands and my own band.
I've met so many cool people.
Yeah the tired blues standards are the meat and potatoes. The solos and bass walking work range from awful to insanely good.
Let's put it in perspective.
A bar with beers and TV screens with a bar full of musos, Or your armchair and a rerun of Gilligan's Island. .. whatever is appealing.
I have found subs for other bands and my own band.
I've met so many cool people.
Yeah the tired blues standards are the meat and potatoes. The solos and bass walking work range from awful to insanely good.
Let's put it in perspective.
A bar with beers and TV screens with a bar full of musos, Or your armchair and a rerun of Gilligan's Island. .. whatever is appealing.
Because aside from an unnecessary adjective ("stupid") it was correct advice; the OP was being held back by his own assumptions.
Given OP's reaction, and that we haven't seen him in this thread since, maybe his skin isn't thick enough to lay it on the line and improv in public.
But I hope I'm wrong, and that he takes a chance, has a great time, and meets cool people.
I like to believe that opportunities like that exist.
I used to be really into open jamming back when i was in college and going through a "jam band" faze. I look at jamming as more of a practice exercise than anything i would actually do in front of people. Im good at jamming but would rather write something any day. That being said, it is good for playing around and trying stuff out. Just have fun with it, dont stress it.
I think(though I may be wrong) that most "open jams" are really just playing tunes as opposed to just "jamming" or vamping on a few chords, or just not really jam band oriented, or at least I've never been to an open mic night like this in my limited experience, but I'm sure one of these true open jams could be amazing to be part of!!
But, either way, I think at worst going to one of these and sitting in, the worst that could happen is that it motivates someone to woodshed more!! Am I wrong??
