Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[leadfootstudio]

It is always about the design..not the device..there are class d amps that sound tubey and tube amps that sound like solid state..
Most of the "tube goodness", specially for bass, comes from a resonant peak at the low end, formed by the interaction of the high output impedance of the transformer, coupled with the speakers natural resonances..
Preamp tubes do not reproduce that effect, and when clean, they are as linear as an opamp or a transistor.. clipping is another thing there..but nothing to do with the frequency response of the amp..
Class D have a lot of power in small packages, but they are very flat in frequency response..the tone shaping must be done in the preamp, adding the "tubish" frequencies there, but they will not change if you change the speakers ( as tubes do)
I reproduced this effect on the omnicabsim, the resonant variable HPF gives that present bass but not overwhelming, tighter..
Transistor amps can reproduce this with clever designs..but they are not as efficient as class D

I have heard that the bump created by an svt's power section is around 100 hz... if the op is wondering what to boost...

 

[JimmyM]

Aguilar has made some great tube amps like the db 750... don't know if they have one in production at the moment though... also, there are some great vintage tube amps one can get into for little money... traynors are a great example... ampeg based part of the svt design on a traynor. the yba-3 is a great great tune amp that normally costs around 5-600 can$

Aguilar still makes the DB750, but it's a hybrid, not a tube amp. They did make a full tube amp at one time but it got disco'd.

 

[Korladis]

Aguilar has made some great tube amps like the db 750... don't know if they have one in production at the moment though... also, there are some great vintage tube amps one can get into for little money... traynors are a great example... ampeg based part of the svt design on a traynor. the yba-3 is a great great tune amp that normally costs around 5-600 can$

The 750 isn't a tube amp. Solid state power section.

 

[Dieboy]

Solid state vs tube amps - there's a holy war. It's like asking geeks vi or emacs :-D

The easy answer: whatever *you* like the sound of is what's right, how the sound is produced is secondary.

I personally favour hybrid amps (tube pre-amp, solidstate poweramp) as a compromise.

Downsides of tube amps:
- Cost
- Weight
- Maintenance/reliability

Advantages:
- Tone, if it's the right tone for you
- Status

 

[Sunset Shalom]

I think the reason tube amps are perceived as being more expensive is because they are harder to make. So you don't see cheap low watt tube amps like you do SS.

But when you compare used prices of good tube amps vs SS I feel like you can actually get a lot more bang for your buck with many tube amps.

 

[somebrains]

Plug in one of these, or a Pro if you prefer more grit, into whatever can be driven by them loud enough and you are good to go.

I'm so past worrying about it anymore.
Oh wait, you want a DI signal? Take it from the back bc what it is what it is.

SVP-CL is my Heinz Ketchup.

Also I use Vi bc I know how to get to :119 and :15 to make my edits.
Been using it forever.

 

[Drgonzonm]

I think the reason tube amps are perceived as being more expensive is because they are harder to make. So you don't see cheap low watt tube amps like you do SS.

But when you compare used prices of good tube amps vs SS I feel like you can actually get a lot more bang for your buck with many tube amps.

Ihave one of those cheap ss amps $30 new plus batteries.
Don't see a lot tube radios converted to guitar amps anymore. Do have a 3 tube 8w se amp found at a second hand store won't handle any of my basses.

 

[JimmyM]

Plug in one of these, or a Pro if you prefer more grit, into whatever can be driven by them loud enough and you are good to go.

I'm so past worrying about it anymore.
Oh wait, you want a DI signal? Take it from the back bc what it is what it is.

SVP-CL is my Heinz Ketchup.

Also I use Vi bc I know how to get to :119 and :15 to make my edits.
Been using it forever.

View attachment 2785939

One of the best preamps ever made. But it ain't a tube amp. The power section makes a big difference.

 

[byacey]

Don't see a lot tube radios converted to guitar amps anymore. Do have a 3 tube 8w se amp found at a second hand store won't handle any of my basses.

Pretty tough to find a tube type radio with a 100 w power supply, and a push pull output xfrmr capable of 50w or so, 10w maybe.

 

[DJ Bebop]

You ever hear a B-15 with a speaker level DI going through a nice PA or studio monitors? You'd change your mind about thinking it's not hi-fi right quick! Ask Charlie

I used to recorded that very way. It was the only way other than a mic that got a good sound. That's the thing though. It was direct, not the same thing as turning the treble to noon and bass all the way up and going full tilt boogie live.

Crazy? Not in my world. My first "real amp" was a B-15 too, and I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Like so many other pieces of gear, sounds fab in other peoples' hands though, of course.

See, that's what I am talking about! I do still have one though more because it was my dad's and it's still a classic

It can be, absolutely. Not in my hands though. View attachment 2780594

I suppose I'm the opposite.

I don't really like how clean bass sounds.

I do but it seems that more and more I run a very mild overdrive. I'd say it's on about 80% of the time these days. Can't really tell it's on, though...until I turn it off

Well, clean as defined by the various "hi-fi" rigs I've heard over the years and DI sounds. DI sounds especially I think sound like crap.

That's the thing. Drive makes the sound immediately fatter and beefier and mire dynamic. I also can't live without a bit of drive. If you turn it off, the sound immediately becomes boring and much thinner.

Now I know I don't know what I am doing. I run a bi amped solid state hybrid class D head with the pre amp tube disengaged through a small bi amped full range speaker system 1x12 sub, 1x10 coaxial top speaker most of the time. So maybe apples to oranges :Ol The Kay M-1 sound good through it as well as the P bass :Ol I don't know...

 

[DJ Bebop]

I mean, the overdrive thang works for a lot of cats. I guess it's just me. When I hear it and play that way, it makes my tummy hurt and I feel sad like, I could be sounding better

 

[DJ Bebop]

Having said that, I do have a pedal that has a SVT head model kinda raging into a B-15n bottom model with sometimes a Big Muff thrown in for a little dirt. Does that count? I will go there, sometimes...

 

[Korladis]

I just don't think clean electric bass sounds any better than DI clean electric guitar.

 

[Michael Schreiber]

It's like asking geeks vi or emacs :-D (...)
I personally favour hybrid amps (tube pre-amp, solidstate poweramp) as a compromise.

So, that'd be Notepad++ for us geeks

 

[agedhorse]

I just don't think clean electric bass sounds any better than DI clean electric guitar.

Maybe for YOUR taste and music style, but others might not agree with what you like for THEIR taste and music style.

 

[mesaplayer83]

I just don't think clean electric bass sounds any better than DI clean electric guitar.

To each their own, but I would guess you're in the minority on that...

 

[Drgonzonm]

Pretty tough to find a tube type radio with a 100 w power supply, and a push pull output xfrmr capable of 50w or so, 10w maybe.

chances are the radio conversation will be a SE amp, low power. An application similar to a Champ. My fender piggyback output probably no more than 30-40w. My point is one of not buying off the shelf

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Plug in one of these, or a Pro if you prefer more grit, into whatever can be driven by them loud enough and you are good to go.

I'm so past worrying about it anymore.
Oh wait, you want a DI signal? Take it from the back bc what it is what it is.

SVP-CL is my Heinz Ketchup.

Also I use Vi bc I know how to get to :119 and :15 to make my edits.
Been using it forever.

View attachment 2785939

Had an Ampeg SVP Pro several years ago. It was used but seemed to work fine for a couple of years. Then, absolutely cut out during a gig. Would not allow a signal to pass through it to my Crown Amp. Did everything I could to mess with it. It was not tubes (I have a tube Tester). It seems that probably the onboard relay would no longer latch in the to pass the signal through. And I couldn't find anyone to check it out that wasn't going to cost me a $150 or more dollars. Not worth the expense to me.

At the time, that was Vietnam Ampeg. Finally just gave up on it. And considered it a piece of crap. And a Goodwill donation.

If you leave me standing on a stage, period. I will no longer think you make any equipment I can depend on. So far that is not the experience I've had with Demeter, GK, Genzler, Crown, or QSC. Just saying. When Ampeg starting making stuff in VietNam, not a good idea in my book. They lost me as a customer.

 

[JimmyM]

Maybe for YOUR taste and music style, but others might not agree with what you like for THEIR taste and music style.

To each their own, but I would guess you're in the minority on that...

I don't think Sartori is trying to represent the views of anyone but himself.

 

[JimmyM]

Had an Ampeg SVP Pro several years ago. It was used but seemed to work fine for a couple of years. Then, absolutely cut out during a gig. Would not allow a signal to pass through it to my Crown Amp. Did everything I could to mess with it. It was not tubes (I have a tube Tester). It seems that probably the onboard relay would no longer latch in the to pass the signal through. And I couldn't find anyone to check it out that wasn't going to cost me a $150 or more dollars. Not worth the expense to me.

At the time, that was Vietnam Ampeg. Finally just gave up on it. And considered it a piece of crap. And a Goodwill donation.

If you leave me standing on a stage, period. I will no longer think you make any equipment I can depend on. So far that is not the experience I've had with Demeter, GK, Genzler, Crown, or QSC. Just saying. When Ampeg starting making stuff in VietNam, not a good idea in my book. They lost me as a customer.

$150 to fix a $600 or $700 preamp? That's not a bad price, actually. Anyway, there was a lot of misinformation in your post...please allow me to correct it.

First off, to the best of my knowledge, the SVP Pro was made in the USA under St. Louis Music and was discontinued by 2007 along with the rest of their preamps before LOUD moved operations to Vietnam and China. Second, a tube tester will tell you things like if a tube will light up, some of the fancier ones will test things like transconductance and other such big words, but it does not detect all faults in a tube. I've bought tubes that tested good before my eyes in a very good tube tester, then when I put them in the amp, they would crackle or distort or things of that nature. Third, the Vietnam era lasted from 2007 till 2008, and was one of many blunders the former head idiot of LOUD made that resulted in their board of directors asking for his resignation. Since then, not a single Ampeg product has been made in Vietnam.

Of course, I don't expect everyone to know the history of Ampeg, but the current owners of the Ampeg name were not responsible for your preamp whatsoever. And while the other companies you named are very good companies, I've seen and heard of products they made break, too.