LOL. Yeah, I kind of figure we're all born to do anything we want to. For some it takes less work than others.
"Argue for your limitations and surely they are yours." ` Richard Bach
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"Some people are just born with it" - BS
- Thread starter Sundogue
- Start date
LOL. Yeah, I kind of figure we're all born to do anything we want to. For some it takes less work than others.
"Argue for your limitations and surely they are yours." ` Richard Bach
I used to think that blues was just the same old I-IV-V all the time, until I tried to actually play it.
Someone here mentioned blues timing for vocals was a very hard thing, I find it holds true for all instruments. It's really hard to play the blues on bass, that's what I found.
I have a blues guitarrist in my band, and I find that blues can be very versatile, and is not restricted to the old 12 bar stuff.. whenever he adds his bluesy guitar playing to our funk/pop tunes, it works out in a cool way.
Uhmm.. that might have been quite an off-topic rant, hehe.
On topic (maybe): I find that with people who call themselves blues players, the ratio of wannabee's to people who really get it seems to be quite high - higher than in other genres I used to play. Maybe because it's a very subtle thing to get right. That's what always scared me off of it a bit I guess. I am not saying I can play the blues, but I do see by now how hard that really is, and I humbly try it myself.
Someone here mentioned blues timing for vocals was a very hard thing, I find it holds true for all instruments. It's really hard to play the blues on bass, that's what I found.
I have a blues guitarrist in my band, and I find that blues can be very versatile, and is not restricted to the old 12 bar stuff.. whenever he adds his bluesy guitar playing to our funk/pop tunes, it works out in a cool way.
Uhmm.. that might have been quite an off-topic rant, hehe.
On topic (maybe): I find that with people who call themselves blues players, the ratio of wannabee's to people who really get it seems to be quite high - higher than in other genres I used to play. Maybe because it's a very subtle thing to get right. That's what always scared me off of it a bit I guess. I am not saying I can play the blues, but I do see by now how hard that really is, and I humbly try it myself.
some people are born to play the blues... but not born to play with other people 
OP, glad your project seems to be working out well!
OP, glad your project seems to be working out well!
some people are born to play the blues... but not born to play with other people
OP, glad your project seems to be working out well!
People are born to be whatever they wish to be. Events and experiences, and how we react to them, shape who we become.
Playing with others is a learned skill like anything else in life. Some choose to make excuses for themselves.
The project is working out better than I even hoped it would with the new guys.
- Sep 9, 2007
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warnergt said:
I was in a blues band with a drummer that just couldn't get it, despite the guitarist and myself (both have played in blues bands prior) trying to help him out.
We ended up taking him to a blues club one night. During the set breaks, he and the band drummer were talking it up. Next rehearsal, our drummer got it.
The blues is deceptively simple. Really getting it takes some time playing it an realizing that even though it's just I-IV-V in chords, it's a lot more than that.
Sounds like you now have everyone that gets it.
amen to this. i've plenty of room for improvement, yet i'm a galaxy ahead of where i was ten years ago when i first began gigging.
What people are born with is a set of circumstances. From that, they are more or less inclined to follow a certain path they feel strongly attached to.
This guitar player who feels he was born to play blues, would hardly feel this way if he were born to an Arabian Sheik and raised as a prince.
I get the whole concept of being "born to (insert your life's calling here)" but the reality is we are immeasurably gifted to do absolutely anything. Our predisposition towards something has more to do with our life experiences and what we feel most strongly about. Spiritually, ALL is possible.
Sure. But it's more possible for some people. There is no way I would ever have the talent of Elton John or Stevie Wonder. We are not all immeasurably gifted, and those of us who are gifted are gifted in different gestalts.
There certainly is that "thing" that makes us who we are as individuals. There only is one Stevie Wonder.
However, the very thing that makes Stevie what he is, is what makes each one of us who we are. Take away any luck, breaks, connections or fateful happenstances that allowed his talent to flourish and be recognized and what's left or who is he? Any one of us.
Each one of us is predisposed with some kind of gift (recognized or not) in some way and to varying degrees. What appears to be an innate talent one excels at (without seemingly even trying as compared to others) is more a function of purpose than desire. I don't believe that only certain people are allowed such divine intervention while the rest of us must toil futilely.
The idea that one is born with a gift must assume there is a giver of such gift. Wonder where the source of that is? Probably the same gift store we're all treated from.
I refuse to believe only some people are allowed that beauty while others can only clean their toilets. Somewhere deep within us lies more power than our limited thinking will allow. "Never", "can't", "no way", "impossible" are some incredibly powerful thoughts.
I used to teach art students (and still do occasionally) who on the surface appear to be of varying levels of talent. But I can tell you that even the seemingly least of them had the same potential as those who appeared "born" to be the next DaVinci. The key wasn't for me to teach them how to paint, but to reveal to them the artist that was already there. Amazing how nothing but a thought can radically alter one's life. There is nothing more beautiful than watching a butterfly emerge from the cocoon of stifling thought.
But yeah as you said...it is more possible for some than others. But the possibility lies less in the gift than the circumstance in which it was given.
there's that apocryphal story about ZZ top in their early days trying to back up lightnin' hopkins, and being subjected to the roller-coaster ride trying to follow his song structure.
when one of the guys brought it up, hopkins is supposed to have said, "lightnin' change when lightnin' wanna change."
when that guy is as good as lightnin' hopkins, then he can act like that. until then, you were right to give him the boot.
don't forget the hard work
And sure, we are born to be whatever we want to be. I was surely born to play the bass, but unfortunately I wasn't born with any chops. So gotta practice
Sorry. Not buying it. Same thing with looks. Some people are good-looking, some are not. I do believe that most people do not exploit their capabilities to the fullest, though (including yours truly). Grit and determination can go a long way toward overcoming challenges. But then again, those characteristics would be the ones that set those individuals apart.
I can understand that (not buying it). But I have seen too many individuals who did not appear to "be born with talent" surpass those that did.
And that had far less to do with hard work or developing a skill set as it did simply realizing their limitations were of their own making. Once one realizes we have limitless potential, it's "game on".
I wasn't born to draw, paint, write or play bass. I was born to be anything and everything I desire. I just had my compass pointing in many directions and went for it. People tell me I have so much talent...yeah, and so do they. So what's stopping them, but not me? I have a gift? Maybe so, but theirs just hasn't been opened yet.
Had a similar experience to the OP once. I got a call from a well known acoustic guitarist from our town and he wanted to put together a trio with fretless bass and hand percussion. I called up my friend, Lalo, who is currently (or was last I knew) the touring drummer for gospel/latin/funk band Salvador. MONSTER drummer/percussionist. This guitarist has a doctorate in composition, so he knows what he's doing..... right??????
We start rehearsing, playing off lead sheets he's created for us and all of a sudden, Mr. PhD. drops a beat, so I shoot the percussionist a look and he gives me an acknowledging look back that yes, indeed we just dropped a beat..... a couple of turns later and the same thing happens again... We get done with the song and just for clarification I asked where the 3/4 bars are, so I can be sure to note it on my chart. He goes ballistic saying there were no 3/4 bars and we just need to follow him, yadayadayadayada... Ok, fine.... rehearse a couple more songs and it becomes abundantly clear that while he's a wonderful composer and has amazing technique on the acoustic guitar, his sense of time is TERRIBLE, and he's not fond of allowing the rhythm section to do our job while he blows chops over the top of it, he's got to control the tempo as well, which ends up being all over the place and makes it impossible for the percussionist and I to lock into any semblance of a groove.
I start asking around town and we were the 6th or 7th rhythm section that "just didn't work out" for him. One of my bass player friends said, "he couldn't lock in with YOU TWO???" "That guy is hopeless. He needs to stick with playing solo." Couple of years later, he was out of town because "nobody here could hang with him and he needed to find a band..."
We start rehearsing, playing off lead sheets he's created for us and all of a sudden, Mr. PhD. drops a beat, so I shoot the percussionist a look and he gives me an acknowledging look back that yes, indeed we just dropped a beat..... a couple of turns later and the same thing happens again... We get done with the song and just for clarification I asked where the 3/4 bars are, so I can be sure to note it on my chart. He goes ballistic saying there were no 3/4 bars and we just need to follow him, yadayadayadayada... Ok, fine.... rehearse a couple more songs and it becomes abundantly clear that while he's a wonderful composer and has amazing technique on the acoustic guitar, his sense of time is TERRIBLE, and he's not fond of allowing the rhythm section to do our job while he blows chops over the top of it, he's got to control the tempo as well, which ends up being all over the place and makes it impossible for the percussionist and I to lock into any semblance of a groove.
I start asking around town and we were the 6th or 7th rhythm section that "just didn't work out" for him. One of my bass player friends said, "he couldn't lock in with YOU TWO???" "That guy is hopeless. He needs to stick with playing solo." Couple of years later, he was out of town because "nobody here could hang with him and he needed to find a band..."
Good to know that there are just simply some people who aren't meant to be in a band situation.
It's one thing to work solo...it takes a whole 'nother skillset to work in any kind of ensemble.
I'd bet their 1st grade teacher wrote on their report cards..."Doesn't play well with others".
Maybe they weren't breastfed or something. Who knows? Maybe they were born with it. Whatever "it" is.
It's one thing to work solo...it takes a whole 'nother skillset to work in any kind of ensemble.
I'd bet their 1st grade teacher wrote on their report cards..."Doesn't play well with others".
Maybe they weren't breastfed or something. Who knows? Maybe they were born with it. Whatever "it" is.
I have a friend I've know for a long time. He's a classically trained pianist and multi-instrumentalist. Far better musician than I'll ever be. He made a good living doing a solo cruise ship thing for many years. Off and on we would attempt to play together but it never worked out. Early on I was somewhat intimidated and thought it was me.
Eventually I came to the conclusion that we just didn't mesh musically and I wouldn't play with him. Then a vocal group I was backing hired him. They were very excited. I tried to be professional and kept my mouth shut and played with him as best I could. We usually did OK but he had a habit of playing fancy chords that conflicted with the vocal harmony.
As time went on the singers began making comments about him when he wasn't around that made it apparent they were seeing the same problems I had experienced. Again, I stayed quiet because I don't like to pile on and because sometimes contention and gossip just breeds more contention and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Then one night after a nice well paying gig at a fancy pool party he and one of the singers get into a big argument. He starts cussing very loudly about how he knows what parts go where better than the singer. All in front of a crowd that had just been satisfactorily entertained.
So he's gone and I still play and sing with them. We're still friends. I still admit he's a better player than I am but he just can't mix with others. Playing in a group isn't about getting the best players together. It's more about getting people that want to play in a group.
Eventually I came to the conclusion that we just didn't mesh musically and I wouldn't play with him. Then a vocal group I was backing hired him. They were very excited. I tried to be professional and kept my mouth shut and played with him as best I could. We usually did OK but he had a habit of playing fancy chords that conflicted with the vocal harmony.
As time went on the singers began making comments about him when he wasn't around that made it apparent they were seeing the same problems I had experienced. Again, I stayed quiet because I don't like to pile on and because sometimes contention and gossip just breeds more contention and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Then one night after a nice well paying gig at a fancy pool party he and one of the singers get into a big argument. He starts cussing very loudly about how he knows what parts go where better than the singer. All in front of a crowd that had just been satisfactorily entertained.
So he's gone and I still play and sing with them. We're still friends. I still admit he's a better player than I am but he just can't mix with others. Playing in a group isn't about getting the best players together. It's more about getting people that want to play in a group.
You show me someone that was "born with it", and I'll show you a person who worked at it when you weren't watching them.
It may have been when they were very young, when it is well understood that the capacity for learning is at it's greatest; and what they learned on that subject may not necessarily be reflected in their life in general, their demeanor, or their current work ethic; but they still learned it.
I am not saying that potential exists equally among all people or that we are all the same mentally or physically. On the contrary, we are all different. But nobody gets a free lunch when it comes to acquiring complex skills.
It may have been when they were very young, when it is well understood that the capacity for learning is at it's greatest; and what they learned on that subject may not necessarily be reflected in their life in general, their demeanor, or their current work ethic; but they still learned it.
I am not saying that potential exists equally among all people or that we are all the same mentally or physically. On the contrary, we are all different. But nobody gets a free lunch when it comes to acquiring complex skills.
I have a bad habit of dropping all kinds of respect and deference towards guys like that. I would probably have been very inconvenient and audacious...
Glad you have good people now.
Glad you have good people now.
I have found this scenario isn't just in the music world only..But life in general. Business and social relationships also. I figured out along time ago to many people's ego get in the way. It's best just to accept it and forge on. If people won't take constructive criticism, leave them behind. I've had many situations musically and business wise that I learned to become a better performer by listening to everyone around me. Don't waste your time on folks that have huge egos.
