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Some Pros use cheap basses

#182
I would think it works with audiences too; someone playing a great looking bass and looking confident doing it will make the audience think he sounds better than someone playing a beater and looking apologetic about it. So, if a better instrument makes me believe I'm better, the audience will believe it too. :p
 
#184
JimFog said:
Wait. Are you guys SERIOUSLY trying to argue that there's NO difference in quality and workmanship between a low-end el-cheapo and a pricier professional instrument? You DO realize that's utterly ridiculous and defies basic logic, right?

Look, I love cheapys, too. I own a bunch. But they are what they are......easy to buy, fun to have around and good to mod/upgrade.

But, I've been gigging for a living for 25+ years, and this is fact, jack:

A good quality, more expensive professional instrument certainly MAY have a catastrophic failure on the gig, given rough treatment and occasional bad luck.

A cheap, low-end beginner quality instrument (unmodded and not upgraded) absolutely WILL fail on you, at a most inopportune moment.....it's just a matter of when.
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That's the part I have trouble with. That a cheap bass will absolutely fail on you is not a given, not in the least. I know some who have gigged and played cheap basses for years, and have never had a major failure on or off the gig. Again, like a lot of people do when dealing with this issue, you are over-generalizing the failure rates of cheap instruments with no reliable statistics to back you up. You can't absolutely guarantee a cheap bass will fail on you at the wrong time, anymore than you can guarantee an expensive one won't
 
#185
C.Linton said:
That's the part I have trouble with. That a cheap bass will absolutely fail on you is not a given, not in the least. I know some who have gigged and played cheap basses for years, and have never had a major failure on or off the gig. Again, like a lot of people do when dealing with this issue, you are over-generalizing the failure rates of cheap instruments with no reliable statistics to back you up. You can't absolutely guarantee a cheap bass will fail on you at the wrong time, anymore than you can guarantee an expensive one won't
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I can certainly go by my own extensive experience, as a guy who has gigged Squiers, SX's, Ibby and other cheapys, and that of players I've shared the stage with. To take it out of the realm of "absolutely", let me put it this way.......

Given typical, not super-rough playing conditions, my experience shows me that a good quality more expensive instrument has maybe a 2% chance of failing for no good reason, while an unmodded/not upgraded cheapy has a 70-80% chance of failing, for no apparent reason.

At a certain point, you need to decide how much that peace of mind is worth to you. As a professional musician, the choice should be easy.
 
#189
One of the main reasons behind the price disparity between cheap factory made basses and expensive handmade ones is the quality of the labor.

No one is saying they use more expensive solder in more expensive basses, but the luthier applying said solder to the handmade bass is more skilled and takes more pride in their work than the factory worker applying the same solder to a cheap production bass.

It is certainly possible to get great tones and have zero reliability problems using cheap basses, but the craftsmanship (and thus the resonance and reliability) of an instrument handmade by a master luthier is objectively better...how much better is entirely subjective of course ;)

seang15 said:
Solder is the same price no matter the instrument. Best pots are two dollars more than lesser pots. And there's a very fine line in actual quality between the two.

Batteries cost the same no matter the bass.

And they all fail no matter the cost of the bass. And rarely at that.
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#190
Very solid synopsis, and as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the bassist in question actually has his basses made by the Dean Custom Shop...that being said, as a Spector guy I know the bass players for Staind, All That Remains, Scale the Summit, Pop Evil, etc. all use the cheaper Legends, but usually with upgraded pickups ;)

AngelCrusher said:
Actually there is an answer, since I have done the tours and know a lot of the guys people ask questions about.

For Rock music - Live - the bass does not have to be super expensive. Just something the player likes. Many of us would rather have toured with cheaper basses to minimize loss. Many players had to use their prized basses. Everyone is different. The key part here is that a lot of players on tour are OVER IT. They don't get nearly as excited about gear as people on this forum. They get a rig that works, and change nothing.

For the studio - this is when things change. You want a bass with some magic to it. The studio is what makes you scrutinize things a lot more.

Moving on towards jazz and fusion - whole other situation. Its a far less physical performance - meaning you are not going to as physically active onstage and it won't be a sweat fest as often as a rock show. Technically, you need to nail everything and that is when you will get more picky about neck..tone..everything.

So the point about virtuoso..etc is a good point. Meaning, most guys on tour in rock bands do not sit and practice all day. They sleep, go sight seeing, chase women or play xbox. The virtuoso type player needs to practice all the time..they probably play 4 hours before even going on stage. It's a whole different mentality and does not really work with MOST rock bands, who are looking for someone who can hold it down and play tightly.

I hope this explains why the needs a of a sweaty, active, pro rock player are not the same as a touring artist who is playing $3,000 basses.
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#191
I have to say that I agree about soldering SKILLS here and the quality of pots/switches/jacks.

JimFog, while probably not actually writing down his experiences over time to come up with the exact 2% versus 80% figures, is definitely onto something here. I personally have gigged both and have had both die. my experience is like 1%/1% even steven. But if we're talking NOT at a gig, but in use in my basement recording studio... I've got numbers like JimFog has for reliability out of good versus cheap instruments.

and I'm not including battery life UNLESS it's absurdly short in a broken-kind of lifespan way (I had one cheap bass that simply must have had a short in it's battery compartment... a few hours, max, per 9v, without warning.... surprise surprise when I was recording with it the first time after putting in a new battery).
 
#192
Was going to post an opinion in this thread, but it's so full of nonsense and BS that here's my one and only post in this thread...

In the immortal words of William Shatner, get a life.
 
#193
#194
I've started purchasing cheaper basses lately. Mostly the Vintage brand. I've always loved their playability and surprisingly powerful pickup and electronics (albeit they can be a little boomy if eq'd bass biased)... Just picked up a p-bass copy Vintage brand new for £177 ($300-ish). Its only mod in the pipeline is a new bridge and that's all it needs!
 
#195
I own a hand made short scale bass from 1960's, and this was so far my cheapest bass. Equality of 30 bucks. Still needs some refinish, but an argument that cheap bass must be a bad bass is just nonsense.

Sure, some pros uses cheap basses, just like Brian May still plays his homemade Red Special, and Jack White plays plastic Airline, everyone was making laugh of about 10 years ago.

Its still an instrument, and I think this makes it
 
#198
JimFog said:
My best buddy bass player has THE best sounding vintage P and J basses (bought new in the late 60's and early 70's), but he also has a fascination with el-cheapos, the constant refrain being "Doesn't this sound AMAZING for $200?!??" (he sounds amazing on anything, BTW).

Well, last night on the gig, his latest fling was a new, low-rent ESP "relic'd" P/J. First gig with it. Surprise, surprise, he plugged it in and.........nothing. Nada. Silence. No backup. "It worked at home!!!"

Oooops.

There's a reason cheap instruments are cheap.
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the only esp are the signatures and custom models. they are anything but cheap
 

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