Sonic Farm/MAS Bass Amp project.

[BigBobbyBass]

Want!!!

 

[JAKBOUND]

Or another MAS Sonic Farm pre amp of course!

 

[MarkA]

Just curious who here would be interested in this amp having an FX loop or not. My understanding is that its on the table to add one if the interest is there. I know where I stand on this, but I'm curious if anyone following this amp project has strong feelings one way or another.

A: No effects loop

B: Instrument level effects loop (for pedals)

C: Line Level effects "insert" effects loop - balanced TRS connection (for line level "rack" gear)

D: Effects what?

When I had a Demmie HBP-1 800D, I used its very flexible effects loop to run Monique through. That worked great, and let me switch between the two very different front ends on the fly. This amp will have a better power section, if one wants to take advantage of it that way, but then maybe no one will want to run it with another pre. I've only used an effects loop to 1) run an fDeck HPF3 (Walkabout), which wouldn't be necessary with this amp and 2) as a power-amp input (most successfully with the Demmie).

I rarely use effects, and when I do, it's just a few pedals on a board. I don't even use a pedal tuner (uncouth, I know). I don't see myself using rack effects, but maybe some serious cats will? There's a lot going on with this amp already -- don't see an effects loop being a make-or-break for many folks (and don't know what the engineering/financial cost of implementing one would be). For me, it's just a nice-to-have. I could see a switchable loop being handy for doublers, as mentioned above. I haven't tried running my pedals in a loop, but, if it were switchable, that might be something I'd try (keep the signal path as pure as possible when not running effects).

If I were ever to own an amp like this, it would almost certainly involve a winnowing down of the menagerie of amplification I've got hovering around me now. One uber-amp, one micro, and one undetermined other (either a big old lead-slead or some specialty piece -- something old-school), so effects-loop-as-power-amp-in might be less of a consideration. Likewise if I got the pre-only version and ran with an external power amp.

Don't mind me -- just thinking aloud. Maybe I'm the wrong guy to ask about an effects loop!

As long as we're discussing features, there's the now-ubiquitous aux-in/headphone jack, which I like for learning tunes, but maybe that's more appropriate for less-expensive micro amps -- don't want to dilute or increase the cost of this amp unnecessarily. On a little amp, I'd take that before the loop. On this, I'd take the loop first.

 

[Feral Feline]

Not a deal breaker if it doesn't have one, but it'd be a welcomed feature if it doesn't cost too much to include.

I use pedal effects on my DB, and it would be fun to stick the delays and reverb in the loop. I'm trying to avoid rack effects, but if I do wind up with rack FX and mount the head in the rack...

If adding a loop and it's not much more dosh to do add ...
How'bout a loop that:
1) Switchable between instrument level & line level
2) Pre/Post EQ switch
3) Pre/Post DI switch

Any other bells and whistles associated with loops I'm missing?


Yeah, a loop would be fun so I can run a creamer or 2Di4 into it and blend
1) Troll-mic > creamer > loop
2) Underwood > main input


[breaking the 4th wall with an aside] *pssst* Something interesting I noted recently...
A certain audio-electronics Co that outspokenly disliked Sonic Farm using "JeDi" is going ahead, loading the market, with a new product sporting a matching moniker to a certain amp that said amp-manufacturer may take umbrage to (even though the products of the two un-named companies might work well together) – a prodigious example of "what's good for the goose is too many radii for the gander".

 

[radbass]

There is a picture of the graphics on the MAS facebook page. I can't figure out how to post it here, I'll ask one of my daughters. I got to hear the prototype preamp at Mike's into a 1200 watt ICE module. The basic sound seems to me to be exactly the same as the 2di4, which is probably the best bass sound I've heard, but the extras on this thing are amazing. The bass control boosts or cuts with a smooth roll off instead of affecting everything below a certain point the same, much more useful and less dangerous. The EQ points for the bass and treble are perfect. It has 3 bands of fully parametric EQ, adjustable band width and a selectable high pass filter. We tried the high pass with one of the new MAS109s, that goes stupid deep, and by reducing the subsonic content it seemed it could go twice as loud. I could barely hear when it was engaged, doesn't affect the sound. I'm not a fan of most compressors, they almost always seem to degrade the sound to me, especially when they have enough controls for me to really screw up the sound. The compressor on this is one of the least obtrusive I've heard, except for old optical tube compressors. It does what it is supposed to without squashing the sound and is very musical with one knob. These guys know compressors. The distortion is very cool. You can add some hair to the notes and it retains that explosive bottom of the 2Di4. The harmonic synthesizers are something you have to hear to understand. I was afraid it would make insect noises like an old Moog, but nothing could be farther from what I heard. They both changed the basic character of the bass and sounded completely natural doing it. It's not like it transforms your bass into a different kind of instrument, they make the kind of basic subtle changes you hear when you switch between a Precision and a Jazz bass or a Musicman, a different, natural voice.

 

[Mark Reccord]

[breaking the 4th wall with an aside] *pssst* Something interesting I noted recently...
A certain audio-electronics Co that outspokenly disliked Sonic Farm using "JeDi" is going ahead, loading the market, with a new product sporting a matching moniker to a certain amp that said amp-manufacturer may take umbrage to (even though the products of the two un-named companies might work well together) – a prodigious example of "what's good for the goose is too many radii for the gander".

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Ok---effects loops.
After tons of input we've decided. The effects loop will be the standard line level like in most amps. Very few pedals should work well in a line level setting. (you're lucky, Jake!)
There are a gazillion add-ons that might be cool but we have look at performance/vs. cost. Of course we could make the effects loop switchable from instrument to line level. But it would add cost. As would a headphone output or aux in.
Let's be honest---this ain't gonna be cheap. But at its price point---even without the extra features that it includes--I think it'll be fairly priced. Every one that has tried it said that SF should come out with a HPF pedal. A compressor pedal. A harmonic generator pedal. (I too thought it would be dumb)
We're putting our efforts into an amp that will truly be of the highest studio quality in terms of design and parts. And adding on studio quality effects.
It will have a preamp out and power amp in as well.

 

[John D Harris]

There is a picture of the graphics on the MAS facebook page. I can't figure out how to post it here, I'll ask one of my daughters. I got to hear the prototype preamp at Mike's into a 1200 watt ICE module. The basic sound seems to me to be exactly the same as the 2di4, which is probably the best bass sound I've heard, but the extras on this thing are amazing. The bass control boosts or cuts with a smooth roll off instead of affecting everything below a certain point the same, much more useful and less dangerous. The EQ points for the bass and treble are perfect. It has 3 bands of fully parametric EQ, adjustable band width and a selectable high pass filter. We tried the high pass with one of the new MAS109s, that goes stupid deep, and by reducing the subsonic content it seemed it could go twice as loud. I could barely hear when it was engaged, doesn't affect the sound. I'm not a fan of most compressors, they almost always seem to degrade the sound to me, especially when they have enough controls for me to really screw up the sound. The compressor on this is one of the least obtrusive I've heard, except for old optical tube compressors. It does what it is supposed to without squashing the sound and is very musical with one knob. These guys know compressors. The distortion is very cool. You can add some hair to the notes and it retains that explosive bottom of the 2Di4. The harmonic synthesizers are something you have to hear to understand. I was afraid it would make insect noises like an old Moog, but nothing could be farther from what I heard. They both changed the basic character of the bass and sounded completely natural doing it. It's not like it transforms your bass into a different kind of instrument, they make the kind of basic subtle changes you hear when you switch between a Precision and a Jazz bass or a Musicman, a different, natural voice.

Link to the prototype on farcebook:
Preliminary artwork for the amp. Still... - Michael Arnopol Soundworks | Facebook

 

[Feral Feline]

A name, still needs a name... Hmmm. Okay just gonna brain-shart away (more commonly referred to as brain-storming) so out comes the bad, hopefully with some good...



Something related to Sonic Farming...
"Root Cultivator"
"Cultivator"
"Root Farmer"
"Tiller"
Harvester"
"Bottom Fertiliser "
"Plough"
"Ploughman's Lunch"
"Tractor Beam" (nod to the SF Beamer)...

Meh... not feeling any of those.


Hmm naming conventions in Sonic Farm's other products ought to guide the naming gaming;
JeDi / 2Di4, Creamer, Beamer, Berliner, Creamliner, Silkroad, and Silkworm.

Okay I'm coming back to farming, can't help it. And we gotta get Mike's deal in there...

"MASsieve Root" (yes I meant to spell it "MASsieve")
"Tuber MAS"
"MA Rootlet"
"RhizoMA"
"MeristeMAS"
"MA Radicle Amp" –

Drummer: What're you playing through? Sounds great!
Bass player: It's new; That's MA Radicle Amp, man
Drummer : Yeah your amp sure sounds rad, but what is it?
Bass player: MA Radicle Amp
Drummer: !?! GTFOH​

Even though it is a botanical reference, the term "Radicle" might upset some engineering fermata Lower-Mainlandah

Actually, all the more reason to call it "Radicle"


"Crème de la Crème" – okay, I don't know if it's based on the Creamer topology (TBOMK), shoot me. Hmm. Shoot.
"Shoot"
Yeah, so according to Sonic Farm, the 2DI4: "As with the Creamer, a single pentode is the only gain stage". So it shares some similarities to the Creamer and, since the amp is based on the 2DI4, "Crème de la Crème" is viable but with input from Mr Arnopol it becomes...
"Crème de la MAS"

"Butter Churn"
"Whipped Cream"

"Lactose" or "Galactose" –Nahh, bad name. We don't want to sound-association-suggest anything is lacking in the amp, let alone that it's lactating... besides, what if you're lactose intolerant?

"Cream Cheese", as yummy as it is... well, we don't want people thinking this is just another cheesey amp falling off the jump-on-the-class-D bandwagon. So, anything Cheesey is out, such as Cheddar (too common anyway) or Cottage Cheese, or especially blue cheese such as Roquefort

So I guess "Buttermilk" is out as well. Though I love butter and I love milk (I am milking this post after all) "Buttermilk" can leave a sour taste in your mouth even after saying it let alone drinking it.

How 'bout "Whole Fat" or "Whole Phat"? I'd say "2%", even "1%" is okay, but "Skim Milk" :***:

"Ghee", then people could say "Ghee, what a great amp!"

"Yoghurt"

"Milk Chocolate"

"Milk Phat"

or. just.

"MILK!" (including the exclamation mark)

Cool Whip could be "Kool Whip"



Nahh. "Cool Whip" is artificial junk, don't want any association/mis-association with that. Not to mention it's a "topping", and bass players bring the "bottom". The amp itself is "Whey Cool", though.

"Butterfat"
"Milk Teat"

"Milk Bottle" gives a nod to the pre-amp tube...

"Creamery" or "Crèmerie"

"Cream Centrifugal"
"Milking Machine"

Wait a sec, hold the udder... The amp is powered by an ICE module... ergo therefore logically it should be called the "MASsive ICE Cream Headache" – Joking, but it should/could be called ...

"ICE Cream"!​

"Gelato"?
"Invalid Link Removed"
"Clotted Creme" - meh, sounds clumsy
"Smetana" or "Kefir" or "Kumis" or "Airag"
"Condensed Milk"
"Khoa"
"Ricotta"
"Quark"
"Casein"
"Clabber" no, it's sour.
"Bass Con Leche"
"Colostrum"
"Smen"
"Clarified Butter"
"Invalid Link Removed" – How sweet it is!


"Dairy Air" as in big bottom.
"Mother's Milk" or "Breast Milk"

"Yak Butter " or "Gurgur" or "Po Cha"

Bos Taurus (species including dairy cows) could be made into "Bass Taurus", but then Moog might get mad.

"Canadienne" – a dairy breed of cattle native to the Great White North that don't moo, but utter "Comment ça va, mm?". However, a lot of this breed outside of Quebec have lost the Quebecois accent and can be heard lowing "How's it goin' eh?"

"Buša" – a breed of cattle from around the Dinaric Alps, in former Yugoslavia; the cattle are used for draught, meat and of course milk. A tip of the hat to Zoran and Boris.
"Sladoled" – another one for Zoran & Boris.
​

Well that's it, I curdn't think of another name if I tried. I've put any names I liked in bold. Sonic Farm and MAS are of course free to use any of these names, all I ask for is a free amp. No? Okay, a substantial discount? Right, an insubstantial discount? Well then how 'bout a pat on the back? Oh... I see... You already thought of "ICE Cream" yourselves.

 

[J.Wolf]

Ok---effects loops.
After tons of input we've decided. The effects loop will be the standard line level like in most amps. Very few pedals should work well in a line level setting. (you're lucky, Jake!)
There are a gazillion add-ons that might be cool but we have look at performance/vs. cost. Of course we could make the effects loop switchable from instrument to line level. But it would add cost. As would a headphone output or aux in.
Let's be honest---this ain't gonna be cheap. But at its price point---even without the extra features that it includes--I think it'll be fairly priced. Every one that has tried it said that SF should come out with a HPF pedal. A compressor pedal. A harmonic generator pedal. (I too thought it would be dumb)
We're putting our efforts into an amp that will truly be of the highest studio quality in terms of design and parts. And adding on studio quality effects.
It will have a preamp out and power amp in as well.

My takeaway from the effects loop convo was that people don't really use them for effects, like I seem to. It appeared the big reason people liked them, if at all, was for the preamp out/poweramp in functionality, which for an amp like this SHOULD be a non-issue, since both the pre and power are second to none. The other reason I saw guys saying yes to effects loops was the "sure, why not?" response, which doesnt really justify it.

I was a little surprised that nobody else runs their board through the amp's loop, but I gather than some pedals that are very input sensitive (OD, filters, octave for example) prefer inline signal. I use all those effects, and I still think my board sounds better through the loop, but hey.

 

[MarkA]

Well, I want to try my board in the loop now. I like the idea of hitting the front end of my amp more directly.

 

[J.Wolf]

That's been my thinking. Better to hit the front of your amp up with the cleanest signal and then use a buffered send to add in your effects.

There was not a lot of ambivalence when I posted the question in the amps forum. So I assume, if you give it a shot, it will be pretty obvious pretty quick which is preferable.

I'm curious how much of that has to do with a particular amps effects send and return specifications versus the pedals that people are using and what kind of input those pedals like.

 

[Saluki]

I like Tone Harvester.

 

[Feral Feline]

Me too!

 

[John D Harris]

"Testicular Fortitude".

 

[MarkA]

"Testicular Fortitude".

That's sure to be a hit with female bassists - each box should include a bottle of Sex Panther aftershave.

Dreamliner... Monthership... Solar... Red Dragon... Saga... Cyborg... Thing... Orbiter... Satellite... Nexus... Red Sun... Dream... Avatar... Earth... Planet...

Root... Kernel...

Harvester/Tone Harvester (mentioned above), Quark (mentioned above)...

Cream would be cool, but you might run into issues calling your amp "The Cream." Creamery (mentioned above) could be cool. Amp ("the Amp"). Tracker. Guru. Calm ("the Calm"). Eye. Third Eye. Rama. (last couple maybe too specific).

Crop Circler.

Will revisit.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Gee Feral F. Over think things much, or just a slow day at work? Haha

How about

Farm Sound
No no no ....

Sound Vice
Sound Vise
.
.
.
I got it........

FARM TRUCK !!!!

 

[rskgarage]

rare earth

 

[John D Harris]

Bassful Bliss.

 

[J.Wolf]

Can I just say..... I've gigged the heart/powerplant of this new amp now twice ( 2Di4>ICE1000w amp in a box) and I'm completely speechless. It sounds, feels and reacts SO DAMN GOOD that it's basically comical. For a data point, comparing this power section to the efx return on my Puma 900 (250ASX module) its not even close. Not remotely. the force and firmness of the low end is startling. Effortlessly quick, warm, and punchy as can be.

This setup with a couple bands of EQ, a good comp, and a few other fun/useful things. Fuggetabout it, this is fixing to be THE no compromise amp.