Yeah, it's crossing a boundary. It's sort of like if your pants are unzipped, its great to know about it, but if someone comes up and touches my zipper that won't go well.
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If I've caught another musician touching my settings, he has just authorized me to adjust the settings on HIS equipment.
If I've caught the sound tech touching my settings, he has just authorized me to adjust the settings on HIS board.
If I've caught anybody else without an instrument or board touching my settings, he has just authorized me to adjust the settings on HIS face.
If I've caught the sound tech touching my settings, he has just authorized me to adjust the settings on HIS board.
If I've caught anybody else without an instrument or board touching my settings, he has just authorized me to adjust the settings on HIS face.
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It's a tough situation, because they literally hold the quality of the audiences' experience in their hands. A poor (or pissed off) sound guy can ruin your show. I try to talk to them before sound check to let them know what to expect and what we like and they're usually accommodating (although it would be great if they'd actually read the tech sheet we give them before the gig!).
I've done sound for many years, from small clubs to large-ish outdoor concerts, and I've never done anything remotely like that. As a player, I always have a clean, pre-eq DI for them. I've been asked to make the usual small adjustments to position or volume and I do what they ask. I've never had a sound tech try to adjust my amp. That would be a poor choice (a la Indiana Jones!)
I've done sound for many years, from small clubs to large-ish outdoor concerts, and I've never done anything remotely like that. As a player, I always have a clean, pre-eq DI for them. I've been asked to make the usual small adjustments to position or volume and I do what they ask. I've never had a sound tech try to adjust my amp. That would be a poor choice (a la Indiana Jones!)
I never understood bass players who let the sound men control their tone onstage, saying, "I just want it to sound good out front." The whole reason I play onstage is to have fun, and if the sound i want isn't there, it sucks. And if a sound man can't make it work with any reasonabe sound that's being fed, he sucks.
I'm sick of this "Never piss off the sound guy" mindset. If you're such an amateur to where you screw a mix because someone offended your delicate sensibilities, you need to find a new line of work. And why doesn't the sound guy worry about pissing off the musicians who may be in the position of hiring them one day? Only rank amateurs pull stunts like that.
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About 15 years ago I used to play at a bar in Michigan and they had a guy who was a moderately good bass player do the sound. Well he sucked as a sound man. One time they were doing an outdoor small concert and I came in and heard the band. When I got there I arrived from the back and the band sounded OK ... until I got around the front and heard the mains ... then it sounded bad. Well then it came time for my band to play and we were doing our best. I had adjusted the Ampeg SVT settings to what I liked. and about the second or third song one of the sound guys minions started adjusting my amp settings. I threatened to hit him with my bass and he backed off.
Some people just make for bad soundmen
That's pretty unfortunate.
To me, the most telling part of your tale was that the guy attempted to change your amp before he had heard anything at all. This is a person acting on preconceived notions, as opposed to using his ears and responding to what is actually going on. Epic fail. If it were me, I would take the time to explain to the club management exactly why that is a problem for them. That person should find a different line of work.
Maybe we should look deeper.
We all know that down in the depths of soul that are oft ignored everyone wants to be a bass player. Maybe they are intimidated by the daunting physical requirements. Could be they lack the mental capacity and toughness to endure the intense practice and learning regimen we all endured before calling ourselves bass player. Could be they fear the onslaught of the other sex. Maybe they suffer from devastating Micro Cojonitis, a silent killer among aspiring bassists, or, just Cranial Rectilitis and are incapable of doing anything well.
Have any of you though that, while briefly touching your knobs, that poor soul is simply projecting for a brief moment himself into that place that he only dreams of, playing da bass. Be kind in your assessment. If you find that's the case maybe you could even let them look at your bass!
However, if he's just being a dick, it's game on.
We all know that down in the depths of soul that are oft ignored everyone wants to be a bass player. Maybe they are intimidated by the daunting physical requirements. Could be they lack the mental capacity and toughness to endure the intense practice and learning regimen we all endured before calling ourselves bass player. Could be they fear the onslaught of the other sex. Maybe they suffer from devastating Micro Cojonitis, a silent killer among aspiring bassists, or, just Cranial Rectilitis and are incapable of doing anything well.
Have any of you though that, while briefly touching your knobs, that poor soul is simply projecting for a brief moment himself into that place that he only dreams of, playing da bass. Be kind in your assessment. If you find that's the case maybe you could even let them look at your bass!
However, if he's just being a dick, it's game on.
I agree completely with this.
Some of the bands I've been in had a certain esthetic to the sound. Not the typical smiley face eq curve. I think the sound man is there to take what is being generated on stage and deliver it to the audience as accuralty as possable (which is also my option of recording engineers).
The last 5 years or so my amp setting have been "put everyone to noon - go" unless there is a problem, then I'll cut as required.
If you turn up loud enough you can't hear what anyone has to say anyway.
And if he touches your stuff again kick him in the nads.
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I have never encountered that kind of behavior. Not even as a junior some 30 years ago. Sound guys have asked and suggested changes if there is a sound issue on stage that affects the mix but never has there been a sound person who would be so ignorant or insolent as to lay his/her hands on my gear. Pretty unique!
When we have the opportunity to provide sound for a good musician, who uses good gear, and who really knows how to use it, I usually mic the amp, (and maybe take a DI too, but mostly just to have for the recording).
Often, these people are using small, low-powered tube amps, and usually few or no pedals.
We use good FOH gear, and the house gets what the performer wants their instrument to sound like.
Often, these people are using small, low-powered tube amps, and usually few or no pedals.
We use good FOH gear, and the house gets what the performer wants their instrument to sound like.
+1
The sound guy is not my gig boss.....don't pee in my cat box, and I won't pee in yours.
I'll gladly oblige requests to turn down/up as required. But that's where I draw line. Anything above and beyond that is dependent on a multitude of variables.
The other thing I dont get is the stringent requirement to send pre signal. Ummm. NO! I didn't spend thousands of dollars on gear to send you a blank tone canvas to paint. I'm sending you my finished tone painting. If it doesn't work in your mix, then let's talk about. Otherwise, my sound is my sound....not yours. Deal with it.
It's quite apparent who has some knowledge/experience of running FOH and who doesn't in this thread. Just saying. Ideally, it's a teamwork effort between players and soundtechs to make FOH be the best it can be. If either party has an attitude, it's gonna suffer. Usually musicians who have a better understanding of FOH are usually the most understanding and easiest to work with. And vice versa, sound techs who are also musicians and understand that side of it are usually the most understanding and easiest to work with for musicians.
I get that we all spend money on gear and tweak things to sound good to our ears, but if it sounds like garbage out front and you have no desire to give the best tone to anybody but yourself, why even play out in the first place? Just relish in your awesome tone in your basement/garage or wherever. Much simpler and no drama of dealing with sound people at all.
I get that we all spend money on gear and tweak things to sound good to our ears, but if it sounds like garbage out front and you have no desire to give the best tone to anybody but yourself, why even play out in the first place? Just relish in your awesome tone in your basement/garage or wherever. Much simpler and no drama of dealing with sound people at all.
I have always found that the most experienced sound engineers, at the bigger stages I get to play at, prefer post. One summed it up nicely for me - you sound good here on stage, why wouldn't I use your sound FOH?
The times when I get a pre DI, we don't use it for the live show sound. But, if we will produce a recording of the show, we have the post signal, and the pre signal. Sometimes we will add a little clean signal to the effected signal to get more distinct note tones, while still providing the musician with a sound that they have developed. When I have explained to them that this is something we do, and then let them decide if they don't want it done that way, they get what they decide is best. Some like it, and some don't. Makes no difference to me. We give people what they want.
The absolute best sound engineer I've ever had the privilege of working with was a woman. Carol was so laid back, she accommodated every request, sensible or not. I never heard her ask any performer to ever change a thing. And out front she made every band sound amazing, and captured each band's unique sound. No cookie cutter mixes from Carol. She made it look easy.
