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Sound person
- Thread starter keith1r
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- bass live sound sound guy
The point of the matter is, do you want the sound guy to do his job the best as he can or not? I can assure you that working around your insistence on being overly loud on stage is not making his night.
I've been working with FOH support for over the last 20 years. Like you, I would much rather play ambiently with my own gear but the point is, it's not what I want that is important, it's the quality of the overall sound of the project where the paying customers are. If they say you are not in the mix, you are too loud and could be hurting your customers experience. I'm pretty sure you don't want that.
IMO, a good personal stage monitor is enough for you to hear your parts as well as some decent stage presence. That's it. The EQ should be flatter than what you would normally EQ, which will allow you the ability to play with a slightly hire volume level without giving you sound guy fits.
I'm only motivated to do so in reality , because my Fiance is the lead singer and together, we're the core of the band .
I may "mix from the stage" I have significant others that have access to a subset of the mix they can access from their phones if anything is glaringly wrong
I mix the monitors on the stage via a hardwired Mac 17" and an ipad for FOH.
I set the volumes, tone , and mix FOH at soundcheck. Wireless for my bass.
Each band member has limited ability to change their input volume.
Each member has a "more me" slider that will increase their instrument in their monitor.
Yeah not optimal and a big pita for me.
I'm not a pro, but not a novice.
I do a better job of making us sound the way we want to out front where the paying customers are.
My guitarist is a pro sound engineer.
Has engineered for large venues, and legendary bands as they come through the valley.
He has nothing but praise for the results.
Shrug
I worked with IEMs for about 15 years. Fortunately, I had a Buttkicker for live performances. But you know, I've done a lot of recording work over the years just using headphones and earbuds and it didn't hurt me any. I think you system is a good way to go.
the guitarist, myself and the drummer have our monitors on stands at ear level.
helps immensely with clarity, separation and tone, at a lower volume.
the singers have wedges on the floor.
** i would prefer for my own purposes to have a stage amp, but in the small venues the acoustic kit, bass amp, guitar amp make a glorious racket. IF you are in the right spot!
I can get that glorious noise to the far corners of the room, with a mix of the entire band not:
stage right Guitar
Middle snare n kick
stage left bass guitar
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Reality Check time ya'll
People bemoan the death of live music venues.
Dj's taking "our" gigs...
A DJ is cheaper, takes less "support" and time to rig up.
The volume is more easily controlled from background dinner conversation, ramped up to Disco / concert levels.
Brown Eyed girl played at metal concert levels: SVT, a screaming Twin: in a 300 person room and the bar staff having legitimate OSHA claims for hazardous sound pressure exposure, and the bar sells less alcohol because the vast majority of the patrons are standing on the patios so they can talk without shouting.
That's EXACTLY what every bride dreams of having at their wedding reception.
(but it's RAWWWK N ROLLL MAAAN)
By all means: Continue to fight the future, keep producing 120 DB stage volumes. Keep playing the little dive bars that tolerate it , that pay the same as they did in the 70's because that's the only margin they have.
BUT! know why that is.
OR find a way to play without injuring people, driving them out of the room, and give them something that is enjoyable.
Be better at the game of selling booze than a punter with a silly outfit, and an iPod.
Make no mistake: the band is there to sell MORE alcohol than the venue can without entertainment.
Remember the bar gets a cut of the proceeds from the Jukebox.
That Jukebox can be hooked into a very decent sound system.
Jukebox music gets people dancing, dancing people get thirsty, people who drink like to dance, which leads to more drinking, see how the cycle works?
The volume wars have created a new class of "band" minimal actual instrumentation, the rest is tracks, more vocals and lip syncing "eye candy" ENTERTAINMENT FOR THE GENERAL POPULACE who could care less if it's actual "live" music, after all they can't really tell the difference.
The big name entertainers (singers) often have no actual band visible (if they have a band at all)
lets try and think really hard as to why that is? Since that is "normal" are the patrons really impressed with your Acoustic 360 ? I guarantee more than half think you are a guitar player.
I need to crank my amp to get "my tone man!" yeah keep doing that it's been working out so well up till now.
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Ugh... Saturday one of my bands set up to play outdoors at a local Farmer's Market. I brought my smaller combo- a Fender Rumble 100, and someone said "you think that's going to be loud enough?" I said, "if that's not loud enough, you guys are too loud." They gave me the standard crap about how it's music that's supposed to be loud and I pointed at the booths being set up for sales a few feet in front of us and said, "if those people can't hear their customers orders, there's no purpose in our being here. We are here to help this venue, not mess it up."
It's like, did that never dawn on those guys before?
Also, that Rumble gets a lot louder than its size would have you think.
Too many performers think that they are there to fulfill their wants and needs. No, you are there to entertain the attendees, the gig is not so you can finally crank it up loud enough that it sounds good enough over your tinnitus.
It's so that the people that (hopefully) outnumber the band can be entertained, converse and flirt, try out their best pickup lines, and perchance gain new company for later that evening.
Sweat out their booze on the dance floor, shoot pool, throw darts.
This isn't a concert with people sitting in their seats, attention focused on you playing the role of Rockstar.
This is only true for the typical bar/cover band.
If your an originals band, you do you and RAWK their faces off if that's what continues to get you gigs.
**OH and added for additional focus:
"If it's too loud you're too old" a saying popular in the 70's 80s.
the reality NOW is "It's too loud because you're too old" and believed the previous statement, and now 110 DB sounds like a whisper to you.
That said i'm in a country band, but as a diehard metalhead I still enjoy stunning a rhino at 100 yards with my bass rig: BUT I'm not hired to do that.
I had a car stereo that could produce 125 DB OUTSIDE with the windows closed.
Loud (too me) can be good-- but not in a bar.
I've left after the first song when checking out other bands because THEY are too frigging loud even with earplugs (see my car stereo description above) if i have to go hoarse just to order a Jack n Coke at the bar (and I'm one LOUD voiced M-Fr)
I'm outta there before the ice melts.
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That's a really weird way to look at things. The sound guy is working for the whole band. Yes, you get to pay your cut for the PA. AND STOP BEING WEIRD.
My band splits the cost of merch production equally, but I never wear t-shirts, and I don't even own a record player - why should I still have to pay a cut?
Are you splitting the profits? Are are you benefiting from the marketing aspect of metch that increases awareness of the band a turnout at shows?
These are silly questions.
Your bass rig is all yours. You buy it. The drummer's drums are his/hers. You don't pay for drums.
But the PA is for the whole band to sound good. The sound guy is having to factor your volume and tone into his/her mix. Merch is also part of the whole band (unless one or two people are covering all costs and splitting all profits).
This is just common sense stuff. I'm confused as to how it's even a topic.
I play guitar in a band. Since I have 6 strings, should I get paid more than our bass player who only has 4? Should the keyboard be prorated, because even though he has 88 keys, there are a lot that he doesn't use much, especially when we play in the keys of C or Am.
I play guitar in a band. Since I have 6 strings, should I get paid more than our bass player who only has 4? Should the keyboard be prorated, because even though he has 88 keys, there are a lot that he doesn't use much, especially when we play in the keys of C or Am.
There's no money above the 5th fret, so don't even bother going there.
True! I've been up there many times and the only thing I ever got was a nose bleed!
wmhill
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I have lugged subwoofers up narrow flights of stairs in the interest of a band gig. I'm also the guy to help everyone with load-in and load-out - drums, keyboards, PA, lights, whatever. I always thought that's just what you did when you were in a band. Now I'm wondering if I'm just a sucker...
It's what we all used to do. Everyone showed up, loaded the trucks, drove to the show, loaded in, set up, played the show, tore down, loaded out, and if you were lucky the guys driving the trucks had garages so nothing had to be taken out until the next time. I wasn't able to carry big stuff by myself but I could take a side and help move some of the bigger items; leave all the smaller stuff for me and we'll work to get it done together. It's often not like that these days.
To be fair, I was halfway joking with my earlier post. I did lug subs up stairs, but I wasn't the only one doing it for that band. We all pitched in to get everything ready for the most part. (It was a club gig, club was on the second floor of a building in downtown Seattle, they had two staircases - one for guests and one for staff, both awful. But we got everything in and out as a group. The subs weren't even all that bad - it was the stage pianos.) That was a good experience even though it was pretty unorganized, but I've definitely been in other situations where there's less dedication to the group cause (or sometimes people just prefer to handle their personal stuff even if it's a slower overall process).
And yes - not everybody can lug heavy stuff, but I think that everybody notices when people help in any way that they can. From the same group, I remember one of the new singers wrapping cables instead of sitting idle as we were packing and unpacking - she was actively looking for ways to help, and that has stuck with me. I also remember another person who sang with us who would never have thought to lift a finger to do anything, and asking would have just felt pointless. Neither of them would be up to lugging large speakers around, but you could tell where the intent was and where it wasn't. Of course, this isn't just singers - you find this with the musicians who get their little corner situated, and then start noodling at high volume instead of helping get the rest of the band set up. So the effort is noticed, and it's always appreciated.
