Sound person

[TheReceder]

You're making it harder on the sound man to do his job so you should have to pay double.

Didn't read any other posts... but my bet is my post was repetitively redundant.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I feel really sorry for the OP. Why assume the sound engineer is correct in his assessment of the volume? I've known many SE's that were happy with nearly inaudible bass in the mix.

I don't like the SE mafia around here that just always assume every SE anywhere is absolutely correct in their assessment of the relative volumes of instruments and of the mix.

And I don't assume that every drummer knows how to rein back the volume of their kit.
I used to hate the provided SE "tone" for bass out front. A crap DI box making my lucious Mesa sound live a clanky subwoofer ( no mids) and over time as I took on the mixing duties for my band, I gained useful knowledge , and the ability to talk the lingo.
This enhanced the ability to collaborate with all SE we've used since I began this new role.

Some SE's don't really have a handle on it, but with most seasoned players especially those who've been at it for a long time, there are those with trashed hearing and this impacts the performance.

How many of you that disagree with this premise, have a decible reading of your stage volume?
How many wear hearing protection?
100 decibles is loud.
Seriously get an app for your phone.
Check the levels.

 

[el murdoque]

If you want the bass to be louder or as loud as the drums, from the rear, while standing three foot in front of your amp, the crowd will get a lot more than that.

 

[LBS-bass]

Yes, you contribute. You are a member of the band. It is the band sound that the soundman is responsible for and, frankly, you are making his job harder.

 

[s0c9]

I feel really sorry for the OP. Why assume the sound engineer is correct in his assessment of the volume? I've known many SE's that were happy with nearly inaudible bass in the mix.

I don't like the SE mafia around here that just always assume every SE anywhere is absolutely correct in their assessment of the relative volumes of instruments and of the mix.

As an SE (freelance) and bass in a top local band, I'd really like to know how ANYONE on stage can ascertain the "relative volumes of instruments and of the mix" ???
If the bassist stands less than 20+ feet in front of their bass amp, THEY can't hear the impact, but the front row sure can.. and so can the SE!

In 30 yrs of gigging and running sound, I'd say < 10% of bands I've worked with have any idea of how their stage volume - and the need for "my" tone - impacts the FOH mix.

Sure, there are crappy SE's out there, but most of us do the best we can with what we have. Having to fight "the band" who have no clue how to turn down and let the SE make them sound good makes the job so much harder. Both punters and the band then blame the SE!

In 2018, I ran sound for a top local Journey tribute band - at a festival with 20 min turnarounds. I get to make sure they are all plugged into the system, do a line check and off we go.
1/2 way thru the 1st song (about a min into their set) their "manager" is complaining that he can't hear the guitar!! I would have thought that HE (at least) would have a clue what the SE goes thru to set up a mix "on the fly".. w/ no sound check!

 

[el murdoque]

I feel really sorry for the OP. Why assume the sound engineer is correct in his assessment of the volume? I've known many SE's that were happy with nearly inaudible bass in the mix.

I don't like the SE mafia around here that just always assume every SE anywhere is absolutely correct in their assessment of the relative volumes of instruments and of the mix.

If you have a bad SE, you're gonna sound bad - no matter how you set your amp.
Simple as that.

If you have a good SE, you will sound better if no one sets his amp so loud that it carries the venue
( provided the PA is good enough for the job).

 

[JRA]

I don't like the SE mafia around here that just always assume every SE anywhere is absolutely correct in their assessment of the relative volumes of instruments and of the mix.

no mafia, IME, but probably two distinct groups:
1. those who have had pro sound-reinforcement experience as players in the band.
2. those who haven't.

i feel sorry for the OP, too...he probably didn't know that he'd have to defend a POV that is mostly indefensible. and if his "SE" is a wannabe = blind leading the blind. not a good position to be in at the gig!

 

[SLO Surfer]

If the sound guy doesn't need to put any bass in the mains, that means you're stage volume is too loud and his job making the band sound good is actually more difficult. You should give him more of your pay.

 

[yodedude2]

no mafia, IME, but probably two distinct groups:
1. those who have had pro sound-reinforcement experience as players in the band.
2. those who haven't.

i feel sorry for the OP, too...he probably didn't know that he'd have to defend a POV that is mostly indefensible. and if his "SE" is a wannabe = blind leading the blind. not a good position to be in at the gig!

you are wise.

 

[JohnMCA72]

As far as paying a Sound Engineer (SE): I supply sound & lights for a couple of bands that I play in. I get an extra share of gig pay that covers setup, teardown, maintenance, & mixing. The FOH mixer works for me - I have a small pool of people that I've trained - & I pay them from that extra share. I won't mix from stage unless there's no other option.

I also provide sound & lights for other bands as well as venues. I typically ask for a share of the gig pay & venues usually pay more than that, usually when they book out-of-town bands that aren't traveling with their own sound & lights. The local bands I work for like to not have to deal with transport, setup, teardown, & operation of sound & light gear. They also like the freedom of being able to just play, with somebody paying full attention & adjusting the mix as needed for solos, different lead vocalists, etc. Not to mention, I also have a better sound & light rig than anybody else in the area, it's well-maintained, & I have systems in place to make sure everything gets set up right. I almost always make more than any single performer, but not more than the band as a whole. They seem to think it's a good deal, because I keep getting hired.

I also do some small festivals, where I'll probably make more than anybody else (& work a heck of a lot longer & harder for it!).

I believe that any marginally-qualified SE operating from FOH can do a considerably better job of mixing a band than any performer on stage can.

 

[JohnMCA72]

In many situations gigging we hire a sound guy where one isn't provided.
I like a good loud stage volume as loud as the drums and only want the volume behind me and don't like anything in the monitors.
Many times the sound guy says he doesn't even need to put bass through the PA.
Should I have to contribute a cut of my money to the sound guy especially if he's making much more than me?

Do you sing? If not, then maybe you should get paid less than those who do.
Do you sing lead? If not, then maybe you should be paid even less.
Do you play a 4-string bass? Your guitar players play with 6 strings, so you should only get 2/3 of what they get.

 

[bass.slinger]

You should take a picture of each member's levels at each show and pay out percentages based on each member's sound level.

Sounds dumb, right?

Also, why is the sound guy making more than a playing member?

This was my question also - why is the sound person making more than a band member? Unless they are bringing all the gear (including a backline), then they at most should get an equal split. When we hire a sound guy for larger gigs, he brings a full PA with monitors and we give him an equal cut (we also help him schlep the equipment).

For a festival gigs or multi band gigs, the sound person could easily make more than a single band member in total, but the cut from each band should still be at most an equal split as a single band member.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I inferred that to mean, they are hiring a sound support service, I also assume they, as a band, don't have a pa of their own. The band members split the cost of the PA equipment rental, transport, installation, tear down and 6 hours of pay for the engineer.

That is costly, but the "SE" is not a band member , rather a contracted service provider.

If the gig pays crap, and they pay for the Sound services.. well a 400.00 gig turns into a 200.00 gig.
And the SE may only get a cut of that fee.

 

[LBS-bass]

In general, a sound company charges what they charge and you can decide to hire them for their rate or not. They're bringing a lot more to the table then fader-pushing, especially when they're also bringing equipment.

Someone here said they help the sound company schlep equipment. That's only really true if you're helping them load up the van before they come to the venue and helping them unload it after they leave the venue. The unwillingness of bandmates to do this is why I won't provide PA for bands I'm in.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

This was my question also - why is the sound person making more than a band member? Unless they are bringing all the gear (including a backline), then they at most should get an equal split. When we hire a sound guy for larger gigs, he brings a full PA with monitors and we give him an equal cut (we also help him schlep the equipment).

For a festival gigs or multi band gigs, the sound person could easily make more than a single band member in total, but the cut from each band should still be at most an equal split as a single band member.

Agreed. A bar band sound guy should at most get an equal cut. The OP needs a "facts of life" talk regarding his stage volume. I have a feeling the sound guy in his case was politely implying that he turns it down so that he can manage his levels but was lost on him due to the money cut thing.

 

[jimmydean]

Pay the sound person and if he/she says your rig carries well in the room , ''enuff'' said .

 

[JohnMCA72]

I inferred that to mean, they are hiring a sound support service, I also assume they, as a band, don't have a pa of their own. The band members split the cost of the PA equipment rental, transport, installation, tear down and 6 hours of pay for the engineer.

That is costly, but the "SE" is not a band member , rather a contracted service provider.

If the gig pays crap, and the pay for the Sound services.. well a 400.00 gig turns into a 200.00 gig.

Most of the bands I work sound for actually do have PA systems. They just like mine, & the way I run it, better I guess. I get paid off the top, like you say, as a contracted service provider. I generally don't get a cut of tips, although I have been tipped by a band on occasion, in addition to agreed pay.

Contracted sound is not cheap, at any level. I'm sure lots of folks know somebody who will spend 6 hours hauling, setting up, & tearing down gear - let alone mixing a show - for $20 plus a few beers, but you get what you pay for. At a share of bar-band pay, I think it's one of the best deals around!

 

[JohnMCA72]

...

I don't like the SE mafia around here that just always assume every SE anywhere is absolutely correct in their assessment of the relative volumes of instruments and of the mix.

There is no "SE mafia", and it would be a shame if some accident, like putting a -1 semitone pitch shift on their monitor, were to happen to anyone who suggests there is!

 

[Peeved T-40]

I feel really sorry for the OP. Why assume the sound engineer is correct in his assessment of the volume? I've known many SE's that were happy with nearly inaudible bass in the mix.

I don't like the SE mafia around here that just always assume every SE anywhere is absolutely correct in their assessment of the relative volumes of instruments and of the mix.

it doesn't change the fact that OP is fighting with him which is only going to make things worse. Plus, his question and the point that he seems to be making is that he shouldn't have to contribute to pay a band employee which is just wrong no matter how you slice it.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

In general, a sound company charges what they charge and you can decide to hire them for their rate or not. They're bringing a lot more to the table then fader-pushing, especially when they're also bringing equipment.

Someone here said they help the sound company schlep equipment. That's only really true if you're helping them load up the van before they come to the venue and helping them unload it after they leave the venue. The unwillingness of bandmates to do this is why I won't provide PA for bands I'm in.

I'm only motivated to do so in reality , because my Fiance is the lead singer and together, we're the core of the band .
I may "mix from the stage" I have significant others that have access to a subset of the mix they can access from their phones if anything is glaringly wrong
I mix the monitors on the stage via a hardwired Mac 17" and an ipad for FOH.
I set the volumes, tone , and mix FOH at soundcheck. Wireless for my bass.

Each band member has limited ability to change their input volume.
Each member has a "more me" slider that will increase their instrument in their monitor.
Yeah not optimal and a big pita for me.
I'm not a pro, but not a novice.
I do a better job of making us sound the way we want to out front where the paying customers are.

My guitarist is a pro sound engineer.
Has engineered for large venues, and legendary bands as they come through the valley.

He has nothing but praise for the results.

Shrug