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Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

#7,161
I want to preface this comment by saying I have ordered one and I am excited for it to get here!

It is cool that a modular synth provides some inspiration for what is obviously a powerful sound design/synthesis tool. After looking at the manual, some thoughts/questions I have are:

Adding the concept of VCA would really take the modular inspiration to the next level. Is that a part of the C4 roadmap or something that could be considered?

I read that one LFO shape is available at a time. This is for LFO 1 and 2 in a single voice right?

How about allowing the sequencer to be a modulator? It would be cool to sequence Filter Cutoff or maybe Q or whatever.

I would love to see additional modulation targets in the distortion block. Things like modulating the mix with an LFO are fun.

Are there any discussions about making a modulation matrix? It would add to the modular vibe as far as functionality goes - probably not from a UI experience but it isn’t like the UI is based on virtually patching blocks together.

I could go on and on - I am a modular nerd.

Congrats on getting this released!
 
#7,164
There have been a number of posts in the SY thread about the C4 and rather than respond there, I will respond here.
I often hear: "In order to get the most from the C4 I must use an editor".
There is much to say about this point (below). I can start by saying that without an editor and preset sharing, you cant get the most out of any small synth pedal. Period. The vast majority of the pedal on your board is sitting there right in front of you and not used. The preset sharing and editing is to make it a better experience, not worse! :) And, we have made now years of enhancements to make the process better and better.

Expert Sound Makers:
Before the C4 we had only 2 in-house.
A big company might have 2 or 3 times what we have.
There are at least 100 people out in the world that have synth sound making skills (might be 1000 or more). However, they do not have pedal hardware to develop on so they do it on computers or modular synths.
Synth pedals get awesome based on the number and variety of presets you can access. Personal taste is HUGE in this space. The more people developing sounds on your platform, the more likely you can find what you like. Near as I can tell, the other companies are creating closed systems. We are creating an open platform for sound creation and sharing.

Never-before Sound Makers become Sound Makers:
Before the C4 we had only 2 people in SA who could make synth sounds. Now we have 5. There are many people here who are also learning the basics of our pedal and making their own sounds. We have made an unapproachable and complicated thing easy and fun for many new folks.

Sound browsers:
Do you want to turn 6 knobs with no ability to save presets and try and find a sound on the fly? Or, would you like to browse a vast library of sounds that are easy to browse, save and play? Time will tell, but our approach ought to be compelling to many.

I know many of you know all this......but......just in case...…. :)
 
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#7,167
rsmith601 said:
There have been a number of posts in the SY thread about the C4 and rather than respond there, I will respond here.
I often hear: "In order to get the most from the C4 I must use an editor".
There is much to say about this point (below). I can start by saying that without an editor and preset sharing, you cant get the most out of any small synth pedal. Period. The vast majority of the pedal on your board is sitting there right in front of you and not used. The preset sharing and editing is to make it a better experience, not worse! :) And, we have made now years of enhancements to make the process better and better.

Expert Sound Makers:
Before the C4 we had only 2 in-house.
A big company might have 2 or 3 times what we have.
There are at least 100 people out in the world that have synth sound making skills (might be 1000 or more). However, they do not have pedal hardware to develop on so they do it on computers or modular synths.
Synth pedals get awesome based on the number and variety of presets you can access. Personal taste is HUGE in this space. The more people developing sounds on your platform, the more likely you can find what you like. Near as I can tell, the other companies are creating closed systems. We are creating an open platform for sound creation and sharing.

Never-before Sound Makers become Sound Makers:
Before the C4 we had only 2 people in SA who could make synth sounds. Now we have 5. There are many people here who are also learning the basics of our pedal and making their own sounds. We have made an unapproachable and complicated thing easy and fun for many new folks.

Sound browsers:
Do you want to turn 6 knobs with no ability to save presets and try and find a sound on the fly? Or, would you like to browse a vast library of sounds that are easy to browse, save and play? Time will tell, but our approach ought to be compelling to many.

I know many of you know all this......but......just in case...…. :)
Click to expand...

I think the pros and cons... sure the boss doesn’t have all of the deep editing functions and saving patch options but it has everything built in to the user interface front panel. which although might be limiting and a hindrance to switch between sounds easily, it’s there. I forget my cable at a live gig and couldn’t select one of the aftershock patches I was thinking of, didn’t ruin anything but did change the ‘mood of the song’ for me too... just pros and cons :)
 
#7,168
theunknowndude said:
I think the pros and cons... sure the boss doesn’t have all of the deep editing functions and saving patch options but it has everything built in to the user interface front panel. which although might be limiting and a hindrance to switch between sounds easily, it’s there. I forget my cable at a live gig and couldn’t select one of the aftershock patches I was thinking of, didn’t ruin anything but did change the ‘mood of the song’ for me too... just pros and cons :)
Click to expand...
The C4 has something like 100 knobs. That's quite different than what looks like 6 knobs on the SY1. 6 knobs means limited controls and limited sounds. The extra 94 knobs are not without purpose.
If the SY1 has similar sounds to the SY300, then the C4 will also sound very different. I suspect when more C4s are out there we will get some public comparisons. The approach to synthesis in each pedal is different and this makes them sound different.
For some, the SY1 will be enough. For many, especially the folks here, it will not. :)
 
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#7,169
I don't think the C4 and the SY-1 should be compared.

The sound clips I've heard from each pedal, the functions unique to each pedal, and the approach each pedal takes as a synthesizer unit are so different that it just doesn't make sense to me.

This is like saying my Aftershock doesn't have value because my other dirt pedals sound so good and are so easy to use. My other pedals do not devalue the utilitarian functionality built into my Aftershock no more than does the usefulness and, at this point, crucial functionalities of my Aftershock devalue MBD-1, Mastotron, Big Muff Black, and the other drives I enjoy.

If you're not a fan of editor interfaces then go with a simple format.
If you're willing to invest the time into what amounts to sculpting your own synthesizer pedal from the ground up with little to no knowledge of euro rack synthesizers the C4 is for you.

Everything has its place. Nothing is for everyone.
 
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#7,170
DeltaPhoenix said:
I want to preface this comment by saying I have ordered one and I am excited for it to get here!

It is cool that a modular synth provides some inspiration for what is obviously a powerful sound design/synthesis tool. After looking at the manual, some thoughts/questions I have are:

Adding the concept of VCA would really take the modular inspiration to the next level. Is that a part of the C4 roadmap or something that could be considered?

I read that one LFO shape is available at a time. This is for LFO 1 and 2 in a single voice right?

How about allowing the sequencer to be a modulator? It would be cool to sequence Filter Cutoff or maybe Q or whatever.

I would love to see additional modulation targets in the distortion block. Things like modulating the mix with an LFO are fun.

Are there any discussions about making a modulation matrix? It would add to the modular vibe as far as functionality goes - probably not from a UI experience but it isn’t like the UI is based on virtually patching blocks together.

I could go on and on - I am a modular nerd.

Congrats on getting this released!
Click to expand...
It is very tricky to create powerful and flexible pedals that can also attract a wide group of users. Bob Chidlaw wants our pedals to have a hundred knobs. Jesse and I need to take that inspiration and turn it into compelling, accessible, popular products. The C4 is the most challenging product yet in this regard. You will note that I am already defending why it needs to be so flexible in the face of other things that are not!
 
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#7,173
Cunkybunkfarts said:
Question about this. Wouldn't you want to put your aftershock after the C4? I feel like if you tried to use them both at the same time, the dirt before the synth would just make the synth sound not as good?
Click to expand...

It really just depends what you’re using the C4 for in terms of effects. I think dirt really accentuates a lot of modulation and filter effects, so having dirt before those is nice. As always, it’s more down to personal preference...
 
#7,175
rsmith601 said:
Synth pedals get awesome based on the number and variety of presets you can access. Personal taste is HUGE in this space. The more people developing sounds on your platform, the more likely you can find what you like. Near as I can tell, the other companies are creating closed systems. We are creating an open platform for sound creation and sharing.
Click to expand...

This, basically...
And saying that I'll probably get both the C4 and the SY-1, and the Spectrum...
 
#7,177
rsmith601 said:
It is very tricky to create powerful and flexible pedals that can also attract a wide group of users. Bob Chidlaw wants our pedals to have a hundred knobs. Jesse and I need to take that inspiration and turn it into compelling, accessible, popular products. The C4 is the most challenging product yet in this regard. You will note that I am already defending why it needs to be so flexible in the face of other things that are not!
Click to expand...
There are pros and cons to both approaches. I know you would likely say the SA approach is better, but I wouldn't... just because I don't think either is better than the other.

The simplicity of the SY1 is a big bonus. Sure, you can't save presets. However, there are only a few parameters to tweak when you go to a different sound, so it isn't a terrible burden. It's also a big perk to be able to just look at the top of the pedal and say, "here are my 'string' synth sounds." Twist one knob and, boom, you're on them. There's a strong appeal to that, especially for people who don't know anything about how to set up a modular synth. But, there are cons too. I've used pedals like that, and what I have run into is a lot of, "wow, I'd love this sound, if I could just tweak a couple extra things..." Pros. Cons. Trade-offs.

The C4 looks amazing. The tracking, the depth, the tweakability, the presets. So much awesome in one pedal. At an amazing price for what's packed in there. But...cons. It's complicated. A lot of people will be completely lost when trying to create sounds. And a massive userbase uploading custom sounds has the downside of requiring users to sift through garbage, or stuff they aren't interested in, or that just doesn't mesh with their rig or band or whatever. And a lot of people won't know what little tweaks they need to perfect their sound. I personally have run into cases where every tweak I made took me further from what I was looking for. Pros. Cons. Trade-offs.

I owned 2 SY300s. It's an amazing pedal. I hope to get an SY1 at some point. It looks every bit as cool as the C4 imo. Just...different. For now, C4 for me. And I'm excited.

To each their own. To me...both, hopefully. :D
 
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#7,178
Robertron said:
I'm sure you've tested C4 - Aftershock and vice versa. Is there a reason you've decided to put the C4 second? My plan when mine arrives is to put the C4 first so I can distort and EQ the harmonized tones from the C4. I'm curious what you like about running the Aftershock first.
Click to expand...
There is only the simple reason that I like to have more control over what kind of dirt I want to go into the filters - hence the placement of the Aftershock before the C4. Conversely, I don't have a need or use for filtered/synth sounds that go into dirt.
 
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