Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[rsmith601]

EQ2-Related Feature Request:

I posted this in a far-flung corner of TB that might not get the same amount of traction as this thread, so I'll post the essence of it here: Hey Source Audio, would you consider adding to the EQ2's already fabulous feature set, the ability to toggle on a "Constant-Q" setting?

Because the EQ2 is marketed as, largely functions as and resembles a "graphic" EQ (even though it is much more), I usually want to use it like one, but I was having the experience that the more I was boosting and cutting, the sharper the Q-factor became.

It looks like the Q-factor you set in the pedal applies only to the +/- 6dB setting, but widens or narrows rapidly depending on how much gain you're applying. Having a continuously variable Q (like an API) is a great feature but the EQ2 would behave more like a real graphic—and be even more useful and versatile—with the option to make the Q-factor constant. Please consider it. I promise to use the power wisely

Request is noted and shared. Although, I should point out, a computer has a HUGE processor and a HUGE amount of memory (and fans to cool the thing off). A small pedal like the EQ2 must deliver what it does using a fraction of the MIPS/power and RAM of a computer.

 

[600 Ohms]

Request is noted and shared. Although, I should point out, a computer has a HUGE processor and a HUGE amount of memory (and fans to cool the thing off). A small pedal like the EQ2 must deliver what it does using a fraction of the MIPS/power and RAM of a computer.

Yes sir, I recognize that there are reasonable limits. But if anyone knows how to push the envelope, it's you guys (in the spirit of encouragement!).

 

[GMC]

EQ2-Related Feature Request:
Because the EQ2 is marketed as, largely functions as and resembles a "graphic" EQ (even though it is much more), I usually want to use it like one, but I was having the experience that the more I was boosting and cutting, the sharper the Q-factor became.

It looks like the Q-factor you set in the pedal applies only to the +/- 6dB setting, but widens or narrows rapidly depending on how much gain you're applying. Having a continuously variable Q (like an API) is a great feature but the EQ2 would behave more like a real graphic—and be even more useful and versatile—with the option to make the Q-factor constant. Please consider it. I promise to use the power wisely

It really depends on the specific graphic EQ's circuit design you are referencing here. I found the Trace Elliot 7 band to be very stable and each band seems to properly isolate each band as the gain rises or falls. I suspect this is similar to the SA EQ2. However the MXR 10 band seems to get more erratic as the gain for each slider increases and at higher gains...the sliders effect each other is quite random and dramatic ways. I suspect that the variable Q causes a large overlap between bands at high band gains.

 

[600 Ohms]

It really depends on the specific graphic EQ's circuit design you are referencing here. I found the Trace Elliot 7 band to be very stable and each band seems to properly isolate each band as the gain rises or falls. I suspect this is similar to the SA EQ2. However the MXR 10 band seems to get more erratic as the gain for each slider increases and at higher gains...the sliders effect each other is quite random and dramatic ways. I suspect that the variable Q causes a large overlap between bands at high band gains.

As far as I can tell, the opposite is true: As the gains get higher, the Qs get narrower and therefore less likely to interact with a surrounding band. The lower the gain, the fatter the shape, and the bigger the overlap and the interaction.

I think it was Rane who introduced the constant-Q graphic in the mid 80s, which set the precedent for many graphics going forward. I had a Trace Elliot GP12VX back in the day that, to my ears anyway, behaved like you say about the 7-band (mine was 12 band I believe, and would have had a narrower Q). A constant-Q graphic stays in its own lane, and that can be useful.

The problem I have with CVQ designs in a graphic is that at very low gain, you're talking a Q of sometimes .2 or even wider at 1-3 dB, so that the following happens: Say you're trying to intentionally cut 8dB of 2k, but you've also got a slight contour going so that between 250 and 1k (that's 3 bands on a 10-band EQ: 250, 500, 1000), you're cutting between 1-3 dB. The effect is that those 1-3dB overlaps can build up to such a degree that it can pull the effective center frequency of your 2k cut down to around 700-800Hz.

Where I disagree with myself is like the API 560, which can be the right tool for the job, and has a CVQ design, but I am usually not shaping a tone out of an instrument, but rather trying to be specific. Any design can the right tool for the job, but I want to be able to have the option to minimize interactions if they are unhelpful.

 

[GMC]

I have a general One Series question, does the Neuro Daisy chain option work over USB into the Neuro desktop or does it just work with the phone app? I'm thinking about the possibility of connecting just one of my 4 pedals to my USB port but accessing all 4 of my One Series pedals via Stereo pass through patches on Channel #2 uisng the Neuro desktop.

 

[Gibs210]

I have a general One Series question, does the Neuro Daisy chain option work over USB into the Neuro desktop or does it just work with the phone app? I'm thinking about the possibility of connecting just one of my 4 pedals to my USB port but accessing all 4 of my One Series pedals via Stereo pass through patches on Channel #2 uisng the Neuro desktop.

No, two different systems. Need a usb for each device.

 

[Quatschmacher]

I have a general One Series question, does the Neuro Daisy chain option work over USB into the Neuro desktop or does it just work with the phone app? I'm thinking about the possibility of connecting just one of my 4 pedals to my USB port but accessing all 4 of my One Series pedals via Stereo pass through patches on Channel #2 uisng the Neuro desktop.

But you can simply hook up the hub to the pc via usb and the desktop editor will see all connected pedals so you can construct multi-pedal scenes like that and save straight to the Hub.

I think you could even have MIDI controller attached to the hub (or an individual pedal) if you wanted to call up an internal pedal preset and use its data to populate a scene created on the desktop.

 

[GMC]

But you can simply hook up the hub to the pc via usb and the desktop editor will see all connected pedals so you can construct multi-pedal scenes like that and save straight to the Hub.

I think you could even have MIDI controller attached to the hub (or an individual pedal) if you wanted to call up an internal pedal preset and use its data to populate a scene created on the desktop.

Thanks Quatschmacher, "maker of the mighty double bass C4 patch". That's currently how I control my Aftershock and Lunar. Neither of those SA pedals allow Midi calling up of the stock 6 patches...which is a bizarre situation. So I have to use a Hub with my patch choice brunt as scenes on the Hub. With my Lunar, I'm happy to be stuck with the stock 6 patches...but I can't call any of them up via the Midi map. I can change the model type, which is a sort of fudge but not the patch assign. Where as the newer EQ2 and C4 I can all up any of the 128 internal patches via the Midi map.

 

[4Mal]

It really depends on the specific graphic EQ's circuit design you are referencing here. I found the Trace Elliot 7 band to be very stable and each band seems to properly isolate each band as the gain rises or falls. I suspect this is similar to the SA EQ2. However the MXR 10 band seems to get more erratic as the gain for each slider increases and at higher gains...the sliders effect each other is quite random and dramatic ways. I suspect that the variable Q causes a large overlap between bands at high band gains.

The old Trace GPS-7 & 10 band stomp eq's are some of the best graphic eq's ever! The audio quality on those was fantastic. Every time I see one one up, I have to remind myself - not midi, doesn't fit the long term plan... otherwise I'd probably have a few of them on the shelf now ;-)

 

[ilansgroove]

Just got the Spectrum, LOVE it.

Ok, I already have the C4 and it’s great and can do all the spectrum stuff , but it’s nice to have a dedicated thing just for the filters that I love so much


A MIDI question for the geeks
I’m using the Keith mcmillen softstep for midi control and decided to create some controls for the spectrum..
I can’t seem to edit the CC command to engage the octaver , am I missing it or is it not possible

 

[Quatschmacher]

Just got the Spectrum, LOVE it.

Ok, I already have the C4 and it’s great and can do all the spectrum stuff , but it’s nice to have a dedicated thing just for the filters that I love so much


A MIDI question for the geeks
I’m using the Keith mcmillen softstep for midi control and decided to create some controls for the spectrum..
I can’t seem to edit the CC command to engage the octaver , am I missing it or is it not possible

What do you mean by “engage the octaver” exactly?

 

[ilansgroove]

What do you mean by “engage the octaver” exactly?

A CC command to turn the octaver on and of .... there’s a CC command to toggle between drive on and off but not for the octaver

 

[Adamixoye]

A CC command to turn the octaver on and of .... there’s a CC command to toggle between drive on and off but not for the octaver

Is there an assignable CC command for any of the voices?

 

[ilansgroove]

Is there an assignable CC command for any of the voices?

I believe so .,,

 

[Adamixoye]

I believe so .,,

So in theory the octaver is just one of the voices, is it not?

To be clear, I haven't dug into the editor the way I would have liked (I do own a C4).

 

[ghorvers]

A CC command to turn the octaver on and of .... there’s a CC command to toggle between drive on and off but not for the octaver

The way I understand the use of midi on these pedals, is that you switch between engage/bypass on any selected patch, rather than specific parameters in such patch. But if you have a patch that has an octave setting you’d like to be able to switch on and off, why not create two patches and toggle between them? Anyway, my two cents. I’ll probably leave this stuff to my betters. Just hoping I can help understand your question.

 

[ilansgroove]

The way I understand the use of midi on these pedals, is that you switch between engage/bypass on any selected patch, rather than specific parameters in such patch. But if you have a patch that has an octave setting you’d like to be able to switch on and off, why not create two patches and toggle between them? Anyway, my two cents. I’ll probably leave this stuff to my betters. Just hoping I can help understand your question.

it’s an idea
A filter is an effect I ALWAYS tweak

octaver ... less

so if I tweak , I need to tweak both presets ...

It’s just , there’s a million MIDI options ... everything BUT this one ...

Lol

 

[ghorvers]

it’s an idea
A filter is an effect I ALWAYS tweak

octaver ... less

so if I tweak , I need to tweak both presets ...

It’s just , there’s a million MIDI options ... everything BUT this one ...

Lol

I guess I’m still not clear on how you are use midi to achieve these tweaks. Could you be noord specific in which commands you are using?

Switching between a filter and octave Patch I get. Tweaks for specific voicing not so much yet.

 

[sunbeast]

it’s an idea
A filter is an effect I ALWAYS tweak

octaver ... less

so if I tweak , I need to tweak both presets ...

It’s just , there’s a million MIDI options ... everything BUT this one ...

Lol

You need to use the MIDI Mapper in the Desktop app to assign a CC to that parameter. If you are just looking for a CC command to change the Voice Source from one of the voices from "Mono Input 1" to "Monophonic Pitch 1" for example, then you just need to go into the MIDI mapper in the Neuro Desktop app (Device>Edit Device MIDI Map), pick a CC # for "Voice 1 Source" and then experiment to see what value chooses "Monophonic Pitch 1". I think you can already have the "octave" set to "-1" so that you don't need to have a second CC to choose the Octave. If you want to toggle the Octave on alongside a Clean/Dry Voice, then you can just set up the Octave on one of the voices and Map a CC to "Voice (X) Enable" to turn it on or off (half the # values will enable and half disable)

 

[ghorvers]

You need to use the MIDI Mapper in the Desktop app to assign a CC to that parameter.

Aah, even more complexity to explore..thanks for pointing that out.

 

[ilansgroove]

You need to use the MIDI Mapper in the Desktop app to assign a CC to that parameter. If you are just looking for a CC command to change the Voice Source from one of the voices from "Mono Input 1" to "Monophonic Pitch 1" for example, then you just need to go into the MIDI mapper in the Neuro Desktop app (Device>Edit Device MIDI Map), pick a CC # for "Voice 1 Source" and then experiment to see what value chooses "Monophonic Pitch 1". I think you can already have the "octave" set to "-1" so that you don't need to have a second CC to choose the Octave. If you want to toggle the Octave on alongside a Clean/Dry Voice, then you can just set up the Octave on one of the voices and Map a CC to "Voice (X) Enable" to turn it on or off (half the # values will enable and half disable)

thanks

will test it