Source Audio Sourcerers Society (S.A.S.S.)

[Dazonbass]

The noise I had was a simple "click" every once in a while. There wasn't ever any static or anything. And it went away with the provided power supply, so I figured it was just the one spot. What kind of noise did you have?

A random clicking but it was only noticeable when we were not playing. There were lots of issues that night because the place was trying to run the entire band from one socket and we were not very impressed with the sound man. I am taking it as a learning experience and not to worried about it. Just will make sure I either am using the supplied adapters or at least have them at hand, just in case.

Just so it is clear... love both my SA pedals and really dig how much rsmith601 contributes. Thanks

 

[jeremysdemo]

well since the Hot hand can output it's signal to other manufactures pedals/signals as well, what else does a guy need?

without listing all the products out there that do this already:

1.ring mod and other FX that are sync-able to midi time code and outside CV timing devices like most analog FX racks are.
2. programmable and re-callable presets via program change numbers and midi, or at the very least a numbered bank that can be paged through with a knob or pedal for storing specific settings.

Let me ask you a question when you want to use the the bass envelope filter on stage while you are playing and singing do you plan on stopping everything and bending over to adjust those little nobs with your hand in a live setting?
or are you just going to use one setting for all your songs all the time?

keep shinin

jerm

Honestly, the only part of your remarks I understood well enough to respond to is the last bit. And the answer is, I don't intend to buy the non-pro version. Therefore, I won't have to bend over and adjust little knobs.

that's sounds all well and good if you are able to build a complete set around 6 user settings that can be stored and triggered in the pro pedal (although not the easiest thing to do during a song when you sing and play)

if you have ever owned a ADA,Rocktron,Digitech, Line 6 or other guitar FX rack what I am talking about as far as midi controlled presets being automated during songs will make more sense.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[jeremysdemo]

well since the Hot hand can output it's signal to other manufactures pedals/signals as well, what else does a guy need?

Also, this is sarcasm, right? Tell me the HH doesn't work as an expression input for other manufacturers pedals. That would be too good.

from what we are hearing yes,

it does require one of their pedals to receive the signal and convert it to 1/4 in CV out but that signal can then be used with other devices.

rsmith601 mentioned in another thread there is a guy on Utube that does just that with a Moog pedal and the hot hand.

The advantage I can see for that is that normal analog based FX (LFO,VCO, VCA, ring mods etc) usually have some sort of timing input so they can be synced up to hardware and software sequencers, triggered at different times and different timings, by having that simple input you can make Midi tracks with CC changes in them (or use a midi controller) that can further adjust the different parameters of the effect in real time as you are playing without having to press any pedals or turn knobs, these automated tracks control everything from lighting to compression, volume, eq, looper routing, etc already as well.

Basically all the stuff that you would do in the studio with multiple takes and multiple settings you do live without having to blink cause the control track for the FX comes with you.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[jeremysdemo]

You're talking about a very minute possibility of interference. Yes there is the possibility of the signal getting interrupted and causing a brief issue with how the pedal is processing, but your settings have saved default values that are the core of the sound, so it reverts to that. The proximity of the Hothand and pedal are usually so that their signal will win out over possible interference anyway.

well I'm more than happy to agree to disagree on that until I test it for myself.
I have owned many a wireless device over the decades, everything from midi, audio to dmx and some top notch companies (Shure,Kenton, etc) and none of them were fool proof, granted the better companies had less issues especially over longer distances but once you get in confined spaces with a hundred or so tech heads all texting and surfing on a local intranet being provided by the house coupled with microwaves, cordless phones and all the domestic stuff also there will be interference.
Now that might not mean anything to the average performer and as you have clarified the pedal itself has defaults it revert to to avoid unwanted ramps and drops, however, if a person was truly relying on this pedal for the majority of there tone a reverted default when it get's interference isn't going to cut it, tho it might not put out an unwanted spike it also isn't going to put out the wobble they are looking for if it get's blocked by interference.

I know you think you're being helpful, but they really have this well thought out and the technology has been thoroughly tested in the lab and especially on the road by now. The original Hot Hand products using this tech have been out for 6 years now.

they probably do when it comes to the Hot hand itself, however the pedals themselves IMHO are not all that well thought out for live use and real time control and are missing simple technology that was in pedals and racks from the 80's (midi implementation/presets/automation of parameters) a ten dollar EEPROM, a $5 led, midi input, and a few wires would make the world of difference in using these effectively in a professional stage setting.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[willsellout]

So, Jeremy, I'm going to put you on the spot. You joined in January. You have 10 posts as of this writing, and a large majority of those posts are blasting Source Audio. Kind of curious, if you ask me.

 

[Skrogh]

they probably do when it comes to the Hot hand itself, however the pedals themselves IMHO are not all that well thought out for live use and real time control and are missing simple technology that was in pedals and racks from the 80's (midi implementation/presets/automation of parameters) a ten dollar EEPROM, a $5 led, midi input, and a few wires would make the world of difference in using these effectively in a professional stage setting.

Actually the Pro models accept MIDI. Granted, not all the parameters can be controlled, but a good handful (on the MWBDP it's Drive, EQ, Distorion level and Clean level) plus presets can be switched on and off over MIDI.

that's sounds all well and good if you are able to build a complete set around 6 user settings that can be stored and triggered in the pro pedal (although not the easiest thing to do during a song when you sing and play)

I can't see how triggering the presets could be easier. - Either you do it pr. MIDI. Or, if you are without a MIDI master device, you simply press one of the three stomp switches, no need to bend down or anything.

 

[AlvarHanso]

Jeremy, do you own any SA pedals? Do you have any practical experience with them? There are professional bass players who have used them professionally and without issue. Roger pointed out the one instance where a Hot Hand failed to work properly in a live setting. Are you doing a tour of China soon that would replicate the failure? Do you have a set that would require more than 6 envelope filter sounds? Are you not adept at using an expression pedal to modify the parameters? Have you read the user manual that tells you exactly how to use the backpage menu to allow you to use your expression pedal to vary things such as attack and decay, sweep range, and mix? And finally, who pissed in your cornflakes?

 

[jeremysdemo]

So, Jeremy, I'm going to put you on the spot. You joined in January. You have 10 posts as of this writing, and a large majority of those posts are blasting Source Audio. Kind of curious, if you ask me.

I began here in a Pigtronix thread when wanting to know more about their dual expression pedal, I sited the same limitations with their Mothership as I see with the SaSS pedals.

In fact, I wouldn't have come into this thread if the discussion there would not have been ended and moved here.

IF this isn't a place to openly discuss SaSS devices and what might be done to improve them then I apologize, the representative certainly didn't seem to mind.

I'm not here to SaSS bash, pigtronix bash or any other bash if this guy works with the developers than he is a good candidate to pass ideas unto them, few companies offer such a contact and aren't interested in consumer needs, so I thought this was pretty cool....still do if it weren't for the onlookers..

keep shinin

jerm

 

[jeremysdemo]

Jeremy, do you own any SA pedals? Do you have any practical experience with them? There are professional bass players who have used them professionally and without issue. Roger pointed out the one instance where a Hot Hand failed to work properly in a live setting. Are you doing a tour of China soon that would replicate the failure? Do you have a set that would require more than 6 envelope filter sounds? Are you not adept at using an expression pedal to modify the parameters? Have you read the user manual that tells you exactly how to use the backpage menu to allow you to use your expression pedal to vary things such as attack and decay, sweep range, and mix? And finally, who pissed in your cornflakes?

it's my understanding their pedals and effects are not limited to bass (the midi pedal I was interested in in the other thread is open to any synth instrument)
When it comes to matching analog and digital technology it is no easily engineered task and I commend them for even trying.
To answer you questions:

Do you have a set that would require more than 6 envelope filter sounds?

I have single songs that might, why limit ones self?

Are you not adept at using an expression pedal to modify the parameters?
Got a lot of other things going on, that being said anything that can be automated in my effects chains IS.

Have you read the user manual that tells you exactly how to use the backpage menu to allow you to use your expression pedal to vary things such as attack and decay, sweep range, and mix?
yes, but I don't do the riverdance of pedals when I sing and play on stage, the occasional expression pedal (mostly for volume and a midi pitch bend here and there) but no FX triggering my feet are playing bass and drums at times (among other instruments) so they are a bit busy with the note scales to trigger different FX settings during a song.

And finally, who pissed in your cornflakes?
hopefully no one but I don't know everything that happened at the farm the milk came from.

I think midi implementation and saved parameters in a larger bank is the next logical step for these pedals (and the Mothership) I'm sorry if sharing that idea upset anyone or was taken as a mean thing to do.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[jeremysdemo]

Actually the Pro models accept MIDI. Granted, not all the parameters can be controlled, but a good handful (on the MWBDP it's Drive, EQ, Distorion level and Clean level) plus presets can be switched on and off over MIDI.

well that is good to know, the only pedals I have looked at thus far that used the Hot hand was the bass envelope and the Midi pedal (that is not available till March) the rep did not mention they had pedals that parameters could be triggered via midi although I mentioned it a few times.

I can't see how triggering the presets could be easier. - Either you do it pr. MIDI. Or, if you are without a MIDI master device, you simply press one of the three stomp switches, no need to bend down or anything.

you sound like you have a lot of free feet on stage.

perhaps if two of the feet you have are occupied you can fathom how having something trigger via midi at a certain point in a song would be easier?
even so being limited to 6 settings can paint yourself into a corner rather quickly with midi triggering (the FlangerHothand only has 4), although being able to adjust some of the internal settings on those presets with Midi would be promising.

I'm not familiar with the MWBDP so I will have to read the manual so we can both be on the same page as far as it's use with the Hothand and it's Midi control-able parameters, we were basically discussing the Hot hand compatible pedals in the other thread, this is a carry over of that conversation.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[rsmith601]

Jeremey,

I am the President of Source Audio and you do have my ear, but I need input which is clear, reasonable, and actionable.

The comments on Hot Hand seemed to be: "2.4G is the wrong radio technology and I don't trust it". We talked about this today at work and concluded that the only better solution would be to buy some spectrum from the FCC and have our own private spectrum. We are not ATT or Verizon. Telling us that that we did the wrong thing without a clear case for that and why something else is better is not something we know how to act on.

I think if you study our Pro series pedals you will see that we have extensive MIDI and preset support. I think we were all assuming you were aware of these.

So, again. We welcome all feedback and suggestions, but it is important to be very clear and specific. I hope this sounds reasonable to you.

 

[naruki]

I'm thinking of getting the BEF Pro for dubstep stuff. Do I need the Multiwave as well? If not, then how would the Multiwave contribute to the sound?

 

[jeremysdemo]

Jeremey,

I am the President of Source Audio and you do have my ear, but I need input which is clear, reasonable, and actionable.

The comments on Hot Hand seemed to be: "2.4G is the wrong radio technology and I don't trust it". We talked about this today at work and concluded that the only better solution would be to buy some spectrum from the FCC and have our own private spectrum. We are not ATT or Verizon. Telling us that that we did the wrong thing without a clear case for that and why something else is better is not something we know how to act on.

thank you for your candid response.
I really didn't have anything negative to say about the Hot Hand or the 2.4G frequency ban other than it's abundance in consumer products is troublesome but no more than with any other manufacturers wireless device, I'm sorry if that took up any unnecessary time in your efforts today.
My concern was more about what happens when a signal is interrupted, now that I look back it appears rsmith601 gave a suitable and satisfactory answer to that question early on that I completely missed reading while replying that explained how the packets are received and what happens when there is missing data, but instead I go on blammering for another post or two about it....and for dat dat der I apologize.

I think if you study our Pro series pedals you will see that we have extensive MIDI and preset support. I think we were all assuming you were aware of these.

unfortunately I wasn't.
I'll admit I've only seen a few Utubes and the back of some of the Hothand pedals in the pictures on the site and didn't see any midi input sockets or any mention of them in the features or manuals, didn't see a link to pro versions of the pedals either, I guess I was being just tad bit lazy (who am I kidding a whole lot) and if that caused any kinda ruckus or trouble I apologize for that too.

So, again. We welcome all feedback and suggestions, but it is important to be very clear and specific. I hope this sounds reasonable to you.

certainly does, I think I pretty much know everything I need to know about the pedals I'm interested in now to make an educated decision, that being said if I have a suggestion in the future I'll try and make sure it's not something one of your series of that device don't already do first
Before I go looking you don't happen to have a rack version of the Soundblox pro BEF with 99 preset banks do you?

keep shinin

jerm

 

[scottfeldstein]

I'm thinking of getting the BEF Pro for dubstep stuff. Do I need the Multiwave as well? If not, then how would the Multiwave contribute to the sound?

There are more knowledgeable folks here, but it seems to me that the distortion gives a lovely synth sound but has no envelope to sweep with an expression device. The envelope filter has a nice sweep, but doesn't get as much of a crazy synth sound. It gets some, just not as much. Or so it seems to me.

How long before the Source Audio guys make a pedal just for the crazy dubstep tones? Put a couple of the distortion sounds on it and a couple of filter sweeps..bundle it with a hot hand...

 

[naruki]

There are more knowledgeable folks here, but it seems to me that the distortion gives a lovely synth sound but has no envelope to sweep with an expression device. The envelope filter has a nice sweep, but doesn't get as much of a crazy synth sound. It gets some, just not as much. Or so it seems to me.

How long before the Source Audio guys make a pedal just for the crazy dubstep tones? Put a couple of the distortion sounds on it and a couple of filter sweeps..bundle it with a hot hand...

I have fuzz and distortion pedals, just wondering if the Hot Hand + Multiwave is necessary for a better sound.

Also I used to own a Multiwave Pro. First pedal I keep for more than 3 months

 

[rsmith601]

Before I go looking you don't happen to have a rack version of the Soundblox pro BEF with 99 preset banks do you?

keep shinin

jerm

Jeremey,

Your reply put is all into the proper perspective. Thank you! I was making assumptions, which is dangerous!

Sorry if I was getting a bit defensive.

If you study up on the Pro Bass Pedals (BEF Pro and Multiwave Bass Pro), I think you will like what they do. (with external MIDI control you can have 99 presets!).

 

[jeremysdemo]

Jeremey,

Your reply put is all into the proper perspective. Thank you! I was making assumptions, which is dangerous!

Sorry if I was getting a bit defensive.

hey you're making your own devices based on some sound technology for a reasonable price, you have every right to defend your products if you feel they are being unjustly criticized.

If you study up on the Pro Bass Pedals (BEF Pro and Multiwave Bass Pro), I think you will like what they do. (with external MIDI control you can have 99 presets!).

I did not know that, I am used to seeing an LED on the front of a rack panel that goes up to 99 (sorry I'm 80's old school when it comes to FX) to store them by number and trigger them by MIDI program change signals.
I'm certainly going to look into that further since on the surface it only looked like you had 6 presets save-able and and according to one poster not all the parameters could be controlled via MIDI.

If all the parameters could be changed in real time Via MIDI (or at the least the wav form changed) there really is no need for a preset since one could just make their own Midi tracks that would automate the changes with a blank or minimal preset.

keep pluggin at it, you have something unique here with this Hot Hand and I can see it being used for many other things you would want that type of wireless control over, if it could be integrated into OSC that would really open up it's potential to DAWS and all sorts of other applications.

For an example of what I mean by that check out what this guy is doing:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

granted you would need a few Hot Hands all working together to trigger different things, but that is where I can see it going.....in other words people could use it with the ipods to do all that dubstep stuff that is all the rage these days with young bucks...

keep shinin

jerm

 

[rsmith601]

hey you're making your own
granted you would need a few Hot Hands all working together to trigger different things, but that is where I can see it going.....in other words people could use it with the ipods to do all that dubstep stuff that is all the rage these days with young bucks...

keep shinin

jerm

Very interesting video. We totally agree. This is the future of DJ. Who wants to watch a DJ move a slider with a mouse? This covers using Hot Hand in such an application:

DJ Encanti Demos the MIDI Hothand Controller - YouTube

We can support up to 4 Hot Hands in one place at one time. Getting all of those control signals into something like Ableton is going to take some work.

We are working on a Hot Hand to USB stick to eliminate the box.

Very interesting stuff!

 

[jeremysdemo]

Very interesting video. We totally agree. This is the future of DJ. Who wants to watch a DJ move a slider with a mouse? This covers using Hot Hand in such an application:

DJ Encanti Demos the MIDI Hothand Controller - YouTube

We can support up to 4 Hot Hands in one place at one time. Getting all of those control signals into something like Ableton is going to take some work.

We are working on a Hot Hand to USB stick to eliminate the box.

Very interesting stuff!

Euuuurp!

that Midi Pedal in the vid is the way to go with this and software seq, wish I would have got one on the first run.

I love the fact that you can get it to return the CC values back to 0 automatically, try doing that in CV hardware and you are looking at some expensive motorized pots!

my only regret as I mentioned earlier is that there is no Hot Hand signal OUT (control voltage) for other analog FX on the Midi Pedal (like the one guy does with the Moog but there are on other HotHand compatible pedals) that would be helpful for controlling parameters of analog CV based hardware at the same time as software....a limitation tho that I could probably live with, they do have Midi to CV converters...tho they are rather expensive so finding a device that puts out CV already is a +...

up to four at once, WOW, that could come in handy, I am a bit confused however as to what that would look like, 4 individual receivers? or all four on one? and how one would go about splitting those signals out to various devices other than a single software sequencer like ableton?

other than that USB receiver it looks like a hothand stand alone signal router with 4 dedicated CV outs (and one midi) would be something people would be interested in, I know I would. Moog charges $400 for something similar (CV controller) but it was not wireless, there was a bluetooth wireless pedal-board out a while ago too, but it was only for Mac.
as far as filtering those 4 signals into Ableton for anyone I would suggest Midi OX/yoke, in theory this could be used like a theremin to not only control notes on a track, but to trigger/play them as well, bringing air guitar to a new level!

keep shinin

jerm

 

[rsmith601]

Euuuurp!

that Midi Pedal in the vid is the way to go with this and software seq, wish I would have got one on the first run.

I love the fact that you can get it to return the CC values back to 0 automatically, try doing that in CV hardware and you are looking at some expensive motorized pots!

my only regret as I mentioned earlier is that there is no Hot Hand signal OUT (control voltage) for other analog FX on the Midi Pedal (like the one guy does with the Moog but there are on other HotHand compatible pedals) that would be helpful for controlling parameters of analog CV based hardware at the same time as software....a limitation tho that I could probably live with, they do have Midi to CV converters...tho they are rather expensive so finding a device that puts out CV already is a +...

up to four at once, WOW, that could come in handy, I am a bit confused however as to what that would look like, 4 individual receivers? or all four on one? and how one would go about splitting those signals out to various devices other than a single software sequencer like ableton?

other than that USB receiver it looks like a hothand stand alone signal router with 4 dedicated CV outs (and one midi) would be something people would be interested in, I know I would. Moog charges $400 for something similar (CV controller) but it was not wireless, there was a bluetooth wireless pedal-board out a while ago too, but it was only for Mac.
as far as filtering those 4 signals into Ableton for anyone I would suggest Midi OX/yoke, in theory this could be used like a theremin to not only control notes on a track, but to trigger/play them as well, bringing air guitar to a new level!

keep shinin

jerm

Note that the MIDI EXP has both MIDI out AND Expression out. The Expresssion out works with all the Expression inputs we have tried it with.

I am not sure how we would deal with 4 Hot Hands at one time other than 4 rings, 4 receivers and 4 MIDI-Exp boxes. I will need to think about that.

Here is Bob Chidlaw using 2 of them!
Dual Hot Hand Synth Demo - YouTube