Speaker crossovers

[Passinwind]

Beware of typical iron core inductors, when they saturate at low frequencies they can look like almost a short circuit (defeating their purpose). Air core is the preferred choice because they don't really saturate, but they are much bigger and require a lot more copper.

You will find that iron core inductors are typically used in the cheapest products, it's POSSIBLE to design around them but they tend to grow in size, weight and cost when you do it correctly.

Andy, any experience and/or comments on these: Products: C-Coil (Toroidal Core Wire Coil) - Page 3 of 21 - Jantzen Audio ?

I’ve used a few in old experimental DIY cabs low passed at 800Hz or lower, with no problems given my relatively conservative use cases, but they are certainly heavy and expensive.

 

[6thplanet]

Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement

This tutorial is designed to get you started and tweaking a decent crossover… whether you're new to crossovers, or have built speakers before and are looking for a design method that relies on listening and doesn't require measurements. The acoustic concepts apply to an active or passive...

www.diyaudio.com

 

[agedhorse]

Andy, any experience and/or comments on these: Products: C-Coil (Toroidal Core Wire Coil) - Page 3 of 21 - Jantzen Audio ?

I’ve used a few in old experimental DIY cabs low passed at 800Hz or lower, with no problems given my relatively conservative use cases, but they are certainly heavy and expensive.

I've seen them, but they are large (over 4" in diameter) and heavy (estimated at about 2-3 lbs) and I would also expect them to be heavy. Depending on the core material, at 40Hz they may begin to saturate at around 6-7 amps which is ~200 watts at 4 ohms or 400 watts at 8 ohms (this is just an estimated guess, can't do any calculations without knowing the core material and cross-sectional area). Maybe a little more and maybe a little less.

The advantage is a lot less copper than an air core, but an air core doesn't saturate.

 

[agedhorse]

Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement

This tutorial is designed to get you started and tweaking a decent crossover… whether you're new to crossovers, or have built speakers before and are looking for a design method that relies on listening and doesn't require measurements. The acoustic concepts apply to an active or passive...

www.diyaudio.com

This tutorial ignores the relationship between the cap and inductor in a crossover. If chosen (or "tweaked) wrong, it can result in an illegal load to the amp which quickly becomes an expensive lesson.

 

[crazycloud]

These days if you are willing to spend the money you can buy smaller lighter louder much better sounding and more tunable equipment rather than messing around with fixed passive speaker level filter networks and bi-amplification.

Please give me examples.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Please give me examples.

Mesa Boogie

 

[crazycloud]

Mesa Boogie

Which models? And specify how they are better and louder than what can be accomplished with DIY with active 2 way. Just saying you like the Mesas better than any biamped system you've heard does not argue your point as it's just your opinion wrt your needs.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

You are correct. It is merely my opinion.

I will add that it is also my opinion that the guy who designed that stuff is a friggin' genius, (even if he did not think my "Mostly Bogus" joke in another thread was very funny).

 

[JamesGrant]

I still think inductors are proof we live in a dream - pure magic!! (My brain is like ‘yeah, but where does the electric go??’)

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

"(My brain is like ‘yeah, but where does the electric go??’)"


It lurks within a magnetic field like a magic genie just waiting to do your bidding.

Trying to design this stuff before learning the theory of how it works while occasionally blowing stuff up may be fun and educational.

Becoming educated prior to attempting to design this stuff can be even more educational.

As a start, one could take a look at Loudspeaker crossover networks By Tore A. Nielsen for example to gain some knowledge before breaking out the soldering iron. You may still experience the acrid odor of the blue smoke produced by burnt electronic components but hopefully it will happen less often if you have taken the time to prepare your mind so you may do what your heart desires.

 

[JamesGrant]

"(My brain is like ‘yeah, but where does the electric go??’)"


It lurks within a magnetic field like a magic genie just waiting to do your bidding.

Trying to design this stuff before learning the theory of how it works while occasionally blowing stuff up may be fun and educational.

Becoming educated prior to attempting to design this stuff can be even more educational.

As a start, one could take a look at Loudspeaker crossover networks By Tore A. Nielsen for example to gain some knowledge before breaking out the soldering iron. You may still experience the acrid odor of the blue smoke produced by burnt electronic components but hopefully it will happen less often if you have taken the time to prepare your mind so you may do what your heart desires.

I’m ashamed to say I have a degree in it… but in my defence, it was a long time ago and I was good at trotting out information for exams, and following instructions. I certainly wouldn’t call myself an electronics engineer. Weirdly I can remember how to do niche things like filter taps which I’ve needed… never, but things like working through circuits with multiple paths, not so much!!

 

[6thplanet]

This tutorial ignores the relationship between the cap and inductor in a crossover. If chosen (or "tweaked) wrong, it can result in an illegal load to the amp which quickly becomes an expensive lesson.

Sure, but gives an introduction to what's going on. By no means a replacement for simulation software and measurement equipment for a proper crossover.

 

[agedhorse]

Sure, but gives an introduction to what's going on. By no means a replacement for simulation software and measurement equipment for a proper crossover.

And knowledge, education and experience?

 

[Passinwind]

I've seen them, but they are large (over 4" in diameter) and heavy (estimated at about 2-3 lbs) and I would also expect them to be heavy. Depending on the core material, at 40Hz they may begin to saturate at around 6-7 amps which is ~200 watts at 4 ohms or 400 watts at 8 ohms (this is just an estimated guess, can't do any calculations without knowing the core material and cross-sectional area). Maybe a little more and maybe a little less.

The advantage is a lot less copper than an air core, but an air core doesn't saturate.

View attachment 7447448

Parts Express spec the ones in my range of interest at 700 watts, but I was only hoping/shooting for around half of that. The cabs in question sounded very good according to many others, but they're long gone and woodworking is way too hard on my health to continue with on the needed scale anyway. In any case, the DCR is substantially lower, at least. But I've come to appreciate your frequent advice to just forego an LPF for these sorts of bass cabs in most cases.