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Speaker ideas for old EV B115-M cab (15" and 6")...

sunbeast

sunbeast

Supporting Member
Jul 19, 2006
15,378
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Denver, CO
emptypalace.bandcamp.com
#1
I've been looking for a nice 1x15" and ran across this old EV cab on Craigslist for a pretty good price (and it sounds great) so I bought it. It was one of their 80s 2-way cabinets with a 15" and a 6" midrange driver with a 4 way attenuator. It has got by far the clearest tone I think I've ever heard from a bass cabinet- the mid driver just sings! It makes my other cabs sound like they have blankets covering them! There is not a huge low end, but it could also be a matter of exaggerated mids that overshadow the lows (when I turn the mid speaker off, the sound is much flatter).

It is in great condition and the speakers both work perfectly, but it is heavy as hell and the power handling is pretty low (it has one of the older 200 watt EV 15L speakers). I don't know the power handling on the VMR midrange speaker, but I have read a couple accounts of people blowing them, and it sounds like that speaker is getting quite a lot of juice without the attenuator.

Rather than risk blowing these speakers (and to shave off some pounds), I'm looking to replace both speakers (and possibly the crossover if necessary).

I've used Eminence Kappalite 3015s before in a 2x15 cab and really liked those, though I would love the additional headroom from a 4 ohm speaker (right now I'm playing through a Mesa Walkabout which puts out 300 watts at 4 ohms, but only about 175 or so watts at 8 ohms, so 4 ohms would be ideal for this cab to be used as a stand alone). I've heard far fewer accounts of the Eminence Basslite 15, and those seem to be one of the few available 4 ohm 15s- the downside with those is that they appear to have a lower power handling/ xmax.

I have no idea what to look for in 6" speakers- the fEarful threads are about the only reference I have for that, and they are combined with 8 ohm woofers generally in that context. I am assuming that I would need a different crossover to use the mid drivers with a 4 ohm speaker? Is it possible to just change the values of some components, or should I plan on getting or building a completely new crossover? I really like the aggressive nature of the current crossover, but in the long run I might prefer a little flatter response!

Also, I haven't pulled the VMR mid speaker out to check, but it looks like it may be attached permanently to a larger vented container (it appears to be a 10" hole, although I'll have to pull it out to check). That would certainly make it a bit harder to replace! Oh yeah- and according to the manual, the 6" speaker uses the same 16 pound magnet as their other speakers!

Some specs about the cab via EV- it has a 4 cubic ft internal volume, and is tuned to 40 hz.

Thanks for any help or suggestions that you can offer!
Karl

A picture:
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#4
I appreciate the respect that y'all have for the legacy of EV, but to me (as I'm sure it was also to the original designers behind these speakers) a speaker cabinet is a tool vs. a piece of art to be admired. If the designers of this cabinet had made it today, I highly doubt they would have any qualms about using today's speaker technology! They may not have used neo speakers, but they certainly would not have used a 6" driver with a 16 pound magnet, and I highly doubt they would have used a main driver only capable of handling 200 watts and with fairly low bass response (especially considering the potential of this size of box)...

I sometimes understand the attraction to leaving vintage gear as is- especially a vintage instrument, and especially when it involves permanent modification, but with speakers I feel there has been too much advancement of the technology (especially in the world of bass response) to stay stuck in the past.
For example- I had an old 60s Ampeg 215 with JBL D-140s that had the most amazing tone. I was reluctant to switch out the speakers, but found myself constantly worried about blowing them and would occasionally unintentionally push them to the point of farting out. I decided to try a pair of Kappalites in the cabinet- suddenly the cab was louder, capable of significantly more bass response, and never farted out (and could take more wattage than my amp was capable of putting out). If I wanted it to sound similar to the D-140s, it really wasn't too hard to dial in, but the opposite would have been impossible. I sold the D-140s to a local guitar player, and he is still loving them and is certainly less limited by their design for his purposes!

I can only imagine that if either of you actually had a chance to play through this cabinet, you would also see it for the major potential that it COULD have with some nicer speakers- I think this shows more respect to the original design than simply leaving it alone to play quietly in some studio somewhere!

I don't plan to tear it apart (or do any permanent modifications at all for that matter) or throw the original speakers way, but I think it would be a bigger shame to tear them up using them with power that they weren't designed to handle. The box itself, on the other hand, is sturdier and better made than any mass-produced cabinet I've ever had experience with, and has dimensions that I know will pair well with many modern speakers that will net much better bass response, power handling, and sensitivity than the original EV speakers were capable of.

If I had the 2x15" version of this cab, I would be far more likely to keep it as is- better bass response and power handling, and due to the increased size, the weight would be less of an issue as well as I would likely need help moving it anyway!

If/when I do change out the speakers, I will definitely make sure the originals get used by someone!

Thanks,
Karl
 
#5
Despite being listed at a very low price, I passed on one of these on Craigs' a while back for the very reasons you state: limited power handling, somewhat bass-shy, combined with considerable weight. By the time you swap out the 15, the 6 and the crossover, you'll end up with a very heavy, quasi-fEarful.

It's really in nice shape; I'd keep it original and use it gently or as a backup cab.
 
#7
greenboy said:
Decent box for its time, but as a retrofit platform has a lot of issues. Crossover would likely need to be changed, limited port cross-section for a modern woofer like the 3015LF, probably need to have some baffle mod for a modern mid driver, heavy build...
Click to expand...

Do you have any opinions on what a 3015 (non-LF) or a Basslite might add? I am not too concerned with a flat frequency response, just a bit flatter! As it is, the mid-driver seems to overpower the 15 quite a bit unless I cut the attenuator. Also, if I was able to retrofit a different mid-driver, do you have any good suggestions? Would something similar to the fEarful crossover/mid setup work decently with a standard 3015, or would it not be worth the effort.

The box is heavy for sure, but a good bulk of that is the speakers- two 16 pound magnets! Given how cheap I got the cab for, I have no hesitation at putting some money into speaker experimentation, and can always put the originals back in if I don't find a better alternative (it has a very cool and unique tone as is).

I bought it with the intention of taking on a project, so I'd love any help anyone can lend towards that end!

Thanks again,
Karl
 
#8
koobie said:
Despite being listed at a very low price, I passed on one of these on Craigs' a while back for the very reasons you state: limited power handling, somewhat bass-shy, combined with considerable weight. By the time you swap out the 15, the 6 and the crossover, you'll end up with a very heavy, quasi-fEarful.

It's really in nice shape; I'd keep it original and use it gently or as a backup cab.
Click to expand...

I bet its the same one- he listed it again for less a couple days ago and I decided to give it a try. The coolness factor, low price, and surprisingly sweet tone convinced me to give it a try.

I wasn't really thinking about a fEarful when I bought it, but given my fear of woodworking tools it is probably the closest I'll get to something like that for this kind of money (looking at past Ebay auctions, I can probably sell the old speakers for what I paid for the cab if I find suitable replacements).

Karl
 
#9
I had the same cabinet awhile back, blown drivers. The VMR was either too pricey to recone or there no kit for it, don't remember which. Ended up in the trash. As you said the hole it leaves is pretty big, probably fit a 10 in there. I would no bother personally, but thats just me.
 
#10
200w isn't as quiet as you think, especially in a cab with the improved mid dispersion of a 6". i'd leave it as it is for a little while and just be careful with your volume and see what it can do for you as is before you go spending money on it. then you'll have a better idea of what it may need.
 
#12
JimmyM said:
200w isn't as quiet as you think, especially in a cab with the improved mid dispersion of a 6". i'd leave it as it is for a little while and just be careful with your volume and see what it can do for you as is before you go spending money on it. then you'll have a better idea of what it may need.
Click to expand...


Its the 200 watts combined with the relatively high weight of the speakers that I'm hoping to improve upon. If it was only the power handling, I would agree with you- this is a very loud cab because of the mid driver. My feeling is that there must be a currently available 15 speaker that can give me similar sensitivity but with significantly less weight at the very least, and most likely also with an extended low end due to the size potential of the box.

Considering how well the 3015s worked in my very small 2x15 with no sort of port tuning (simply one of the old-school tin-shelf ports in the middle), I guess I may just give it a try. I just figured there would be someone with an actual opinion about any of these speakers in this box, rather than a slew of people that are telling me not to take on my project (which is going to happen regardless!). Again- I'm not looking at the flat frequency of the response of a fEarful, or even a huge bass response (which would be more harm than good for my uses), just slightly more oomph, and significantly less weight.

Any opinions about speaker options with the assumption made that I AM replacing the speakers?! (also assume that money is no object- though it obviously is) :p

Thanks,
Karl
 
#14
I see no reason not to try the 4 ohm basslite C2515 since you need to roll a new crossover anyway.

I'd use that, and then measure the midrange's hole to see how big a speaker you need to replace it. My guess is from the look that an Alpha 8MRA would work, but you need to measure it.

It won't be a fEarful but it'd be fun to fiddle with if you aren't concerned about the "vintage" value of the cab.
 
#15
Thanks rpsands- you don't think that the Basslite might be cutting it a little close handling-wise? (They are rated at 300 vs. the Kappalites at 450, and have a slightly lower xmax)
Also, I have heard little about using 8" speakers (and have never heard one on its own)- do you have experience with any? And the brochure claims a 600Hz crossover- do you think there would there be a readily available crossover to get similar response when combined with a 4 ohm woofer, or would I have to make or modify one? I do like the ability to cut the mid in and out on the current crossover, but that is not a necessity!

As far as vintage value- I plan to keep all the original components intact in case the new speakers turn out to be a wash!

Thanks,
Karl
 
#16
sunbeast said:
Thanks rpsands- you don't think that the Basslite might be cutting it a little close handling-wise? (They are rated at 300 vs. the Kappalites at 450, and have a slightly lower xmax)
Also, I have heard little about using 8" speakers (and have never heard one on its own)- do you have experience with any? And the brochure claims a 600Hz crossover- do you think there would there be a readily available crossover to get similar response when combined with a 4 ohm woofer, or would I have to make or modify one? I do like the ability to cut the mid in and out on the current crossover, but that is not a necessity!

As far as vintage value- I plan to keep all the original components intact in case the new speakers turn out to be a wash!

Thanks,
Karl
Click to expand...

If there is enough depth between the edge of the cab face and the baffle, you may be able to cut a new 1/2" baffle board and attach it to the exiting one, keeping the existing 15" cutout and decreasing the midrange opening for your midrange speaker of choice. If not, you have to at least modify the baffle for the midrange at any rate. And of course you'd have to model the cab in WinISD and retune it to the new speaker.

I have a small 215 cab loaded with two Basslite C2515's and they can handle extremely loud volume levels. The xmax at 4.5 is only 1.4 less than the 3015 (non LF). But I also EQ out the deep lows, so I'm not sure you'd want to use that if you like more fundamental in your sound.

If you do want more deep lows, then really the 3015LF would do it, even in a less than ideal smaller box with it's xmax of 9.6mm. Because you could probably get away with bumping up the lows with EQ more safely.

Hey, if you don't want to build a new cab, go ahead and try it. If you don't like it, you'd at least have a new woofer, midrange and crossover to start a new build for a fEarful. ;)
 
#17
I'm definitely not worried about an extended low end- just a little more (I feel the EV-15Ls do not have a very deep response- their midrange response sounds very sweet though fairly hyped though, even with the mid driver turned off).

I want to reiterate- I'm NOT looking for a feaux-fEarful here, as deep lows, flat response, etc to me are less important than efficiency and low mid oomph. The reason I bought this cab after trying it is that the mid woofer gave it a clarity I had never heard (having only used tweeters in the past), and I figured it would be a good test-bed for a cab with both "oomph" and clarity (without the potential tinniness of the tweeter that I'm used to).

Thanks,
Karl
 
#18
sunbeast said:
I'm definitely not worried about an extended low end- just a little more (I feel the EV-15Ls do not have a very deep response- their midrange response sounds very sweet though fairly hyped though, even with the mid driver turned off).

I want to reiterate- I'm NOT looking for a feaux-fEarful here, as deep lows, flat response, etc to me are less important than efficiency and low mid oomph. The reason I bought this cab after trying it is that the mid woofer gave it a clarity I had never heard (having only used tweeters in the past), and I figured it would be a good test-bed for a cab with both "oomph" and clarity (without the potential tinniness of the tweeter that I'm used to).

Thanks,
Karl
Click to expand...

Well the Basslite C2515 in that cab volume will give you the typical mid hump and then drop off in the low end. The Basslite's range is from 50Hz-2kHz, but in my cab I have the crossover set at 800Hz and my two 4.5" midrange drivers carry everything above that. I've driven my Basslites pretty hard and they put out a lot of upper bass and lo-mids/mids, but I use two of them in one cab. One by itself didn't seem to carry enough for a real large room or outdoors but two are ideal.

My midrange drivers were taken out of a JBL entertainment speaker cab I had. What you should use for the midrange is better left for someone else to suggest.

You might want to try the 3015 (non LF) instead of the Basslite. It will still give you that mid-hump and it has a tad more xmax, goes down to 40Hz, handles 450 watts and with a bit more sensitivity as well, but it only comes in 8 ohms. Depends on what the crossover is at. The Basslite only comes in 4 ohms.

If you like the sound of the existing midrange driver and where it is crossed over you may like just using a single Basslite (if the existing speaker is a 4 ohm) along with the midrange driver as is.
 
#19
It is a shame that they only make each speaker for one impedance, though I'm sure there is a good reason for it (probably a demand related thing). The current woofer is an 8 ohm, so using the Kappalite would be more convenient, and I have some experience with that speaker. Maybe I'll attempt to model it with WinISD and get back- I've never used it before though. For tube port tuning, do you just need to know diameter/length of the tubes?

Thanks,
Karl
 
#20
sunbeast said:
It is a shame that they only make each speaker for one impedance, though I'm sure there is a good reason for it (probably a demand related thing). The current woofer is an 8 ohm, so using the Kappalite would be more convenient, and I have some experience with that speaker. Maybe I'll attempt to model it with WinISD and get back- I've never used it before though. For tube port tuning, do you just need to know diameter/length of the tubes?

Thanks,
Karl
Click to expand...

If the existing speaker is an 8 ohm then stick with an 8 ohm replacement as the crossover was matched to it (though it may be more of a filter than a true crossover, so the woofer may still run full range, but cut the lows out of the midrange driver...I don't know, I'm not familiar with that cab). It's your choice to either get the 3015 or the 3015LF, but since you have a dedicated midrange, I'd get the LF version (because the 3015 is more a full range driver) and with the midrange already covered you might as well go for the extra extension down low with the LF's greater xmax. But the 3015 is no slouch of a bass woofer either. It's really kind of experimental on your part, but WinISD output graphs should give you a better idea what you could expect.

Input the T/S specs for both in WinISD (Either manually enter them into the Beta version or Greenboy has a WinISD T/S file for the Pro version for both speakers on his site...look in his posts for the link somewhere...just copy the files to the WinISD data folder).

Once you load the T/S specs into WinISD, just look for the speaker in the dropdown menu database and then choose 1 speaker in a vented enclosure (if beta version that's good enough, if it's the Alpha Pro version of WinISD, then choose the SBB4 alignment). I use Beta for box design and Pro for analysis. In Beta, it will calculate an optimal flat box design (but you will want to modify that...and the speaker choice and existing internal cab volume will already alter it to a more mid hump design anyway). From this you can input the thickness of the plywood and dimensions of the cab and then play around with that and the internal volume of the cab (minus the mid chamber volume) and you should be close to seeing what the ports should be like. You can choose the number and size in that tab. Yes, it's length and diameter for ports.

You may find that the ports already in there will work. Don't worry if the tuning is a little on the high side (up to 50Hz, possibly a bit more) as you want more midrange punch anyway, not low extension.

While the speaker is out make sure that the cab is lined with some kind of cotton batting (or better yet, egg crate foam). If it's not, line it with some to reduce midrange reflections inside the cab.
 

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