Speaker level DI

[two fingers]

So, just sharing some thoughts and experiences here.

I picked up a V4 a few months back and rebuilt an old Ampeg B40 cab to go with it. Being that some sound guys (myself included) can be hard to work with on micing a cab, I decided to try the whole speaker level DI thing.

Man, it really works! I have done it at about a dozen gigs now and I em really impressed. As with everything else here, many are critical of this technique. Some even claimed is "sucks out my tone". I have experienced the opposite of this. On several occasions I have stepped as far out onto the dance floor as possible, and have even had other bass players play my setup at sound check. It sounds just like my cab only bigger. This is a little confusing being that my cab is a sealed 4-10 and the PA uses huge ported subs with (usually) eight 18" drivers.

But it really works! I have been using a simple Type 85 Countryman.

Not one single sound guy even blinks at it. Some of them will throw a Rapco box or something else cheap on the stage and when I show them my Countryman they simply say "Oh cool. That'll work". They don't even realize that the signal is coming from the amp and not the bass. I can't tell you how many of them have said at the end of the night "Man, that bass sounds incredible!" They think my signal was straight off the bass all night.

Anyway, not trying to ramble too long. All I can say is that for those of you who play vintage amps with no modern line out, and are tired of getting crap from sound guys about micing the cab, speaker level DI is worth a shot. It may not work for every amp. But with the V4 it reproduces out front incredibly well!

 

[KeithAlanK]

...when I show them my Countryman they simply say "Oh cool. That'll work". They don't even realize that the signal is coming from the amp and not the bass.

Not surprised you had good results--sounds like you're on top of things. Awesome.

As I've tried to explain a few times: Show up with your rig under control and meeting or exceeding expectations, and most soundmen are more than willing to run with what you brung.

I just quit running sound for a young soon-to-be-huge country singer and we had found that an EV condenser mic was miles ahead of the rest for HER voice. Told her to insist on always using it whenever possible--reports are that every engineer she's worked with since I left resisted at first but were won over on the first song.

I run direct out of my tube preamp, and the consensus from soundmen is that the signal is a little hotter than they are used to, but great.
Not a single one has objected to my lack of respect for their DI box, because I brought a clearly superior alternative that makes them look good.

If you want to have your cab(s) mic'd, put in the time and effort to balance your onstage needs with the FOH systems you usually see and buy the mic's (and stands!) that make it all work.

It's really very simple. Take control of your sound.
Don't show up begging for a mic with no idea which one translates your sound at it's best, where on the cab to place it, etc.
Present a confident, complete, and well-planned sonic solution that's easy for the crew and WORKS.

 

[two fingers]

All great advice. If you'll notice, I put "(including myself)" in my post because I too am a sound guy.

 

[KeithAlanK]

...I too am a sound guy.

Yeah, I caught that.
Sorry to rant up your thread, but I couldn't resist because you made my point so well.

You took the time and effort to come up with an improvement over the typical bass-->PA interface that works for you, works with the PA's and soundmen you deal with, and impresses everyone including you with the sound quality.
Many lessons here.


In my case, as another soundmen who knows how we are, I also bring a tube DI box if my preamp is too hot for some reason, or it fails. I can also send an XLR out of my compressor instead.
AND I have condenser and dynamic mics in my bag just in case I need or want to go that route.


In my conversations with other soundmen we always shake our heads at the way many musicians think.
Guess what? We DON'T have 10 of every brand/model of mic ever made. We might run out of stands due to drummers and the good DI's because of keyboards + samplers + pre-recorded tracks being more than normal.


Here's how my band does it, based on my experiences as a sound engineer:
Drummer has all of HIS mics clipped to the toms/hat/snare when we set up, with a kick mic on a stand ready to go.
Intro music into his tiny mixer feeds his headphones and a DI for FOH.
All the sound crew has to do is plug in XLR cables.

I don't sing but don't mind talking between songs, so the provided vocal mic is fine with me and an XLR cable into the back of my preamp is all I need.

Guitarist has his preferred mic on the perfect stand to fit his cab's height, and a processor into DI for his acoustic. He's cool with whatever vocal mic is already set-up.

Lead vocalist brings her mic on her stand.

On our many-bands shows the crews LOVE us because we're so quick and easy to hook up.
The "quick" part is important because it leaves TIME for us to have a briefing on our sonic goals, which pays off almost every time.
I'll hand them an mp3 player with our music cued-up on it and ask them to check out our sound while they take a break, and "great job on the other bands, man".

When they meet professionals that do all they can to work WITH them instead of being whiny ill-prepared babies, suddenly the world opens up.
If I ask do they have a better kick drum mic than ours, or maybe an idea for running TWO mics on it for better thump + snap, it's like they can't do enough to please.

When we ask for something to change in our monitors, they bend over backwards and work fast.

 

[LongHairFreak]

I'm hoping to someday do that w/my West Fillmore. I've just been assuming that I'd likely need a Radial JDI for that, but apparently the Countryman may work, eh?

 

[bareass]

i just bought a Reddi, and love it. but been thinking of micing my flatback 810 or one of my svt210avs in addition to the di.
But you are saying you just DI the Mic coming off the amp?

 

[P-oddz]

But you are saying you just DI the Mic coming off the amp?

A speaker load capable DI such as the Countryman or Radial JDI (and there are others as well), can go directly between your head and your cab (from the speaker output) on tube heads not equipped with a DI. There are also other speaker level capable DI boxes that are equipped with a speaker sim (such as the Palmer PDI-09 that I own).

This past year I switched over to an all tube head (Orange AD200b) and with that, I knew I should be as prepared as possible for a live situation. I bought a decent mic, my own holder (the Zbar) and also the Palmer. So far in the handful of shows I've played with the new setup, I find that sound guys are more than likely willing to work with you if you don't come across like an a-hole, provide decent gear solutions, and make it really easy for a fast switch over. YMMV.