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Speaker phasing live?
- Thread starter bassmatt4792
- Start date
Thoughts on PA on Sticks and Sticks on Subs, an Old Mans Musings:
Can you get good sound using pa on sticks and subs split right and left? Yes! It is possible and very common to see this configuration. Is it optimal? No! Why do companies sell speakers like this if it is not optimal? Ask them. I would guess they like money. Why do most bands split the pa right and left? Because that is what they see pros (and every weekend warrior band) doing without understanding the reasons or the physics behind it.
Steve asked why he has never seen a band stack pa on one side. The bands did not know better? About three years ago on the BFM forums there was a long discussion on using a mono stack in oddball rooms. (Narrow rooms for the most part.) Many of us tryed this at our venues and had great success. (The thread has since been culled, or I would link it. It's too bad because there was great info and pictures of different setups as well as reviews.) Mono stacking is a useful tool when plaing tough venues. I don't do it often, but there is a bar that I used to play that almost requires it. Knowing how/why/and when to use a mono stack is the key.
Sometimes it's a good trick if you need blast a certain area of a venue( typically the dance floor) while keeping the levels under control in other areas. (The bar.)
Now back to the OP's question. Sorry, I did a poor job of explaining it the first time around.
"Lots of people here dislike the combination of speaker sizes for bass stacks due to phasing issues. My question to you: how is phasing not apparent in a live setting then? My band has 2-2x15 cabs and 2-1x18 cabs for our PA. If my bass sound would phase if I had different size speakers, why is there no phasing if my head goes through my 410 and DI through our PA?"
Answer: The pa is using active and/or passive crossovers. This means each speaker is getting a narrow band of frequecies to reproduce. (Your 18s are getting 20-100 hertz, mids are getting 100-2k, and the tweets are gettin 2k-20K. (safe estimates, varies by equipment.))
Typically when a poster asks about using different cabs (4x10 and 1x15) for their rig, they are not using a crossover to split the workload between speakers. Some bass amp heads have a build in crossover. Most do not.
The reason it is not apparent in the pa is because you are not asking your different sized speakers to reproduce the same frequecies. In the 4x10 and 1x15 example, you are asking two different speakers to do the same thing, which they are incapable of doing equally.
I hope that helps. Good luck!
Can you get good sound using pa on sticks and subs split right and left? Yes! It is possible and very common to see this configuration. Is it optimal? No! Why do companies sell speakers like this if it is not optimal? Ask them. I would guess they like money. Why do most bands split the pa right and left? Because that is what they see pros (and every weekend warrior band) doing without understanding the reasons or the physics behind it.
Steve asked why he has never seen a band stack pa on one side. The bands did not know better? About three years ago on the BFM forums there was a long discussion on using a mono stack in oddball rooms. (Narrow rooms for the most part.) Many of us tryed this at our venues and had great success. (The thread has since been culled, or I would link it. It's too bad because there was great info and pictures of different setups as well as reviews.) Mono stacking is a useful tool when plaing tough venues. I don't do it often, but there is a bar that I used to play that almost requires it. Knowing how/why/and when to use a mono stack is the key.
Sometimes it's a good trick if you need blast a certain area of a venue( typically the dance floor) while keeping the levels under control in other areas. (The bar.)
Now back to the OP's question. Sorry, I did a poor job of explaining it the first time around.
"Lots of people here dislike the combination of speaker sizes for bass stacks due to phasing issues. My question to you: how is phasing not apparent in a live setting then? My band has 2-2x15 cabs and 2-1x18 cabs for our PA. If my bass sound would phase if I had different size speakers, why is there no phasing if my head goes through my 410 and DI through our PA?"
Answer: The pa is using active and/or passive crossovers. This means each speaker is getting a narrow band of frequecies to reproduce. (Your 18s are getting 20-100 hertz, mids are getting 100-2k, and the tweets are gettin 2k-20K. (safe estimates, varies by equipment.))
Typically when a poster asks about using different cabs (4x10 and 1x15) for their rig, they are not using a crossover to split the workload between speakers. Some bass amp heads have a build in crossover. Most do not.
The reason it is not apparent in the pa is because you are not asking your different sized speakers to reproduce the same frequecies. In the 4x10 and 1x15 example, you are asking two different speakers to do the same thing, which they are incapable of doing equally.
I hope that helps. Good luck!
Thanks Dantreige , I may try that mono setting at a limited space gig coming up. Makes good sense from your desciption, and our singer will whine like a baby because he "ALWAYS" used subs and mains on each side. I used one 18" jbl sub at one outdoor show, and he was convinced it didn't give us enough lows. This was in addition to th six 15s in our main speakers. It sounded fine, but wasn't what he was used to. Creature of habit is a hard animal to change. Speaker mixing on bass rigs I'm not convinced, to many great sounding rigs were mixed size speakers.
Sound theory is sound theory.
The "rules" are not different for PA and bass rigs
I won't try to convince you about speaker mixing (much). As long as you are aware of the problems they can cause and are willing to deal with them, it's all good. If it sounds good, it is good. Consider this though, if you find a cab that you like, why would you add something different to the mix? Wouldn't it be more practicle to add more of what you like? If your 2x10 is not doing it for you, get a new 2x10 or a new 1x12. At least then you can add more of what you like. Doing it this way also allows you to scale your rig to different size venues. You can go from coffee shops to outdoor concerts just by adding more cabs. Is that reasonable?
Splitting subs can be good or bad. Learning where/when/and why to do it is the key. Sometimes (most times) you will not have a choice based on the layout of the venue or the requirements of the customer. Honestly, if you are not outside, it rarely is in your favor. That does not mean that you should not try to do the best you can with the situation.
Good luck!
Splitting subs can be good or bad. Learning where/when/and why to do it is the key. Sometimes (most times) you will not have a choice based on the layout of the venue or the requirements of the customer. Honestly, if you are not outside, it rarely is in your favor. That does not mean that you should not try to do the best you can with the situation.
Good luck!
