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Double Bass speaker question

conte2music

conte2music

Jul 11, 2005
376
128
Dobbs Ferry, NY
www.chriscontemusic.com
#1
Hi Guys...I have a fender bassman 100...it's the little kickback model. I would like to be able to just use the cabinet with the head from my AI contra. What are your thoughts/concerns about using one of the following as a replacement speaker? The stock speaker is 100watt 4 ohm...however the contra head is 200 watt at 4ohm. I'd love to have a more powerful 10' with the kickback feature and thought something like this might work

http://cgi.ebay.com/1000-Watts-Car-...oryZ3291QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
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#2
conte2music said:
Hi Guys...I have a fender bassman 100...it's the little kickback model. I would like to be able to just use the cabinet with the head from my AI contra. What are your thoughts/concerns about using one of the following as a replacement speaker? The stock speaker is 100watt 4 ohm...however the contra head is 200 watt at 4ohm. I'd love to have a more powerful 10' with the kickback feature and thought something like this might work

http://cgi.ebay.com/1000-Watts-Car-...oryZ3291QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Click to expand...

Let's look at the goal here and get goal oriented. It seems that the goal is to be able to use the two combo amps / cabs you have to get more power, am I reading you right?

I don't think a car stereo speaker is what you want in a cabinet you are using for a DB. There are variables other than wattage rating and impedance that come into the speaker design equation. Stereo music playback equipment signal outputs are heavily compressed compared to the uncompressed output of a DB through an Acoustic Image amp. Chance are you are going to dig in on the E string and blow the coil of that e-bay speaker across the room. Well, not really, but you might turn it into a rattling ember.

If you can use the Fender cab in addition to the the AI contra combo as an extension, this will drop the AI's load to 2 Ohms, and increase its' efficiency and give you an increase in speaker area, which is a better strategy. The output of the contra head is spread over the internal speakers and the extension, so you should not be overdriving anything unless you crank the AI way up.

Another option: Take the effects send out of the Contra channel and run it directly into the channel input of the Fender head and run the Fender speaker from it's own impedance matched head. That certainly can't get you into any trouble.
 
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#3
Silversorcerer said:
There are variables other than wattage rating and impedance that come into the speaker design equation.
Click to expand...

+1! Most designers try to optimize the interaction of the myriad parameters of the cabinet and those of the driver to achieve a desired goal. Take a look here. Throwing an off-the-shelf driver into your cabinet could produce disastrous results. Silver has suggested sensible alternatives but one must be careful when combining cabinets with differing sensitivities and/or efficiencies. This is particularly true if you are stacking cabinets.
 
#4
Thanks for the replys!

"If you can use the Fender cab in addition to the the AI contra combo as an extension
Another option: Take the effects send out of the Contra channel and run it directly into the channel input of the Fender head and run the Fender speaker from it's own impedance matched head. That certainly can't get you into any trouble."

I've done both of these things in the past when I'm home and space is not an issue. I also have the contra extension cab, so I have plenty of power at my disposal.

However, when touring I only have space for one unit. The Contra is too difficult to hear between tight quarters and the downfiring sub. I want the kickback feature in a small cab. Also, when the fender head is removed the AI Clarus fits in the slot, and with two small brackets in the back it would hold nicely. I like that the AI could have a safe place to rest while the cab is tilted back, so no one steps on it.

I like everything about the fender bassman cabinet except I would like a speaker that would be more suitable to the AI. As long as I keep the volume low I could go with what's in there now, but I'd like to be able to turn up a bit if needed and not worry so much. The bassman cab is 100watts at 4ohms, and the Clarus is 200watts at 4ohms. I'm asking around before I do anything so I don't abuse my gear.

Are there any modifications that would be safe?
Thankyou for any thoughts.
 
#5
Over the years I've found it difficult to modify my stuff into a sound I want. More often than not I get the desired result plus at least one additional completely undesirable PITA that I have to learn to live with.

Unless you want to enter the world of speaker and amp design I suggest sticking to off the rack stuff where someone else is doing your homework for you.

Perhaps given that you like the bassman kickback as it is I wouldn't change it. You may not like it once you do. Since you are not as pleased with the down firing extension cab you may want to just purchase another higher end cabinet to go with the clarus on gigs where you need to have something more than the bassman.

Like a Euphonic Audio Wizzy 10 or Mline 12 or something else.
 
#6
Thanks Phil. I travel with a trio that plays for a production show...we pick up the rest of the musicians in the towns we sit in. We're always in tight spaces, and without fail someone knocks into my gear. Also...it gets loaded and unloaded by different crews at each venue. I'd like to have some extra protection for the AI head.

?Does the clarus sit snugly on top of the whizzy 10 when the leg is up? When you're right next to it, does the kickback leg aim it up to your ear well enough to hear clearly?

I play a czech-ease on the road, so I need something that's going to get the sound to my ear. I'll never have space to put it on a chair next to me. The set designers really smashed us in tight.

Thanks!
Chris
 
#7
conte2music said:
Thanks Phil. I travel with a trio that plays for a production show...we pick up the rest of the musicians in the towns we sit in. We're always in tight spaces, and without fail someone knocks into my gear. Also...it gets loaded and unloaded by different crews at each venue. I'd like to have some extra protection for the AI head.

?Does the clarus sit snugly on top of the whizzy 10 when the leg is up? When you're right next to it, does the kickback leg aim it up to your ear well enough to hear clearly?

I play a czech-ease on the road, so I need something that's going to get the sound to my ear. I'll never have space to put it on a chair next to me. The set designers really smashed us in tight.

Thanks!
Chris
Click to expand...
I dunno I don't have one anymore, I just borrowed it for a week.

The combo thing is tough. I haven't played a combo for DB I've like yet.
 
#8
conte2music said:
?Does the clarus sit snugly on top of the whizzy 10 when the leg is up? When you're right next to it, does the kickback leg aim it up to your ear well enough to hear clearly?
Click to expand...
My Walter Woods amp, which I think is a little bit bigger and heavier than the Clarus, sits nicely and is very stable on top of the Wizzy 110. The off-axis response of the Wizzy 110 is really phenomenal. I've found I can hear myself more easily with this cab than anything else I've played through, and how it's positioned doesn't seem critical at all. Lately I've been setting the Wizzy 110 on the floor and not bothering to tilt it back.
 
#9
robgrow said:
The off-axis response of the Wizzy 110 is really phenomenal. I've found I can hear myself more easily with this cab than anything else I've played through, and how it's positioned doesn't seem critical at all. Lately I've been setting the Wizzy 110 on the floor and not bothering to tilt it back.
Click to expand...
Rob I know you have lots of experience w/ various EA cabs, so I am impressed even moreso by your latest comments. Others have commented favorably on the Wizzy 10's dispersion too.
conte2music said:
?Does the clarus sit snugly on top of the whizzy 10 when the leg is up? When you're right next to it, does the kickback leg aim it up to your ear well enough to hear clearly?
Click to expand...
conte2music my AI head (Focus) sits pretty snugly on top of my M-line cab when it is tilted back. It does not seem to want to slide and fall off the back. The rubber feet on the bottom seem to do the trick.

[ Edit - Since you pulled the head out of a Contra, it may not have rubber feet. A non-slip mousepad would do the trick maybe? ]

Tilting the cab back is never quite enough for me though. I almost always put my cab on a chair or an amp stand, so I can lean into it when I feel the need and put my ears directly in the line of fire.
 
#10
conte2music said:
I travel with a trio that plays for a production show...we pick up the rest of the musicians in the towns we sit in. We're always in tight spaces ...

I play a czech-ease on the road, so I need something that's going to get the sound to my ear. I'll never have space to put it on a chair next to me. The set designers really smashed us in tight.
Click to expand...
That's cool ... an interesting sounding gig.

It made me think of the Phil Jones Flightcase. In those really tight situations as you described, if you can't raise your speaker closer to your ears with a chair or a stand, then I can't imagine something delivering sound directly to the player much better than this design. I'm anxious to try one for smallish jazz gigs in really cramped quarters for that very reason.
 
#13
conte2music -

I am considering picking up one of those newer Fender Bassman 100 combos as well. I have a rig with a separate head and cab for louder gigs, but the features of the Bassman 100 seem to be a good mix for portable low volume upright bass sound reinforcement applications. It sounds like the specific situation you are playing in is very logistically challenging, but I am wondering if you are generally pleased with the Fender Bassman 100. Do you have any specific complaints with the Fender Bassman 100 - is it just that you want to have a louder rig in that same small tiltback package or is the Bassman 100 disappointingly quiet or bad in tone ?

Thanks for discussing this.
 
#14
I have nothing but great things to say about the bassman. For the price and size I really think it's the best deal around. The line out is good quality, and it has good volume for the size. I 've been very very happy with the bassman, and use it for all my electric bass gigs (high volume line out situations, jazz when I play my fretless, and theater stuff where I'm doubling and use the AI for upright). I also use it when I need in the door in one trip, or if I'm going somewhere where I'll need to walk a distance. I can carry it in one hand, and my czech-ease on my back. If you have more of a budget you should look out for some of these new Genz-benz products, or the flightcase, however if you need to stay around $350 the bassman is a great little amp. The volume pot went bad almost two years ago, but fender fixed it quickly and I haven't had any other issues with it. All the features are super useable. The tweeter is crisp, mute is reliable, and it has good tone with sufficient bottom. Feel free to get in touch if you have any more specific questions. I'm touring right now, so calling is the quickest way to get me 724 462 7219
 
#15
bottom line is that the bassman's great, but if there would be a way for me to use the AI head and keep the portability of the bassman I'd be in heaven. I actually had my father mail me my roland db 500 that I had forgot about. It sounds nice for the czech ease, and I can sit on it. I'll use this through May, but I think my summer present to myself will be a wizzy 10.
 
#16
Thanks for the info, conte2music. I will very seriously consider getting a Fender Bassman 100 - it seems like it might be a very good fit for me for certain situations I find myself in. Your post was very helpful. Thanks again and have fun on your tour !
 

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