Speaker rattle/buzz from a new speaker

[Tim Skaggs]

Hi,
Recently replaced the standard speaker in my Fender Rumble 40 with a brand new Eminence Legend BP102 10 Inch 200W Bass Speaker . At low volume ok ( much better than the factory speaker) but roll up the bass and or volume and buzz and rattle. Any ideas?

It's very possible the speaker is working just fine; so fine that it's shaking the guts out of the cabinet & / or grill

I honestly can't say it any better.

Maybe it might just be that the previous driver had a weaker motor and a higher free-air resonance, and the newer speaker just shakes the cabinet at such a frequency that it causes something (maybe a manufacturer defect in the cabinet - maybe a brace or a joint someplace) to rattle. Maybe it always did, but the previous driver made it rattle less and had enough mid and high end to hide it. Maybe the port is chuffing. Maybe something is actually defective with the new driver - have you tried lightly and evenly pushing the speaker to see if there's any friction anywhere?

I agree with the Pie Man; maybe the speaker is working just fine; so fine that it's vibrating the cabinet much more robustly than the original driver, and causing rattles the original driver didn't induce.

I don't know much about the construction of the cabinet. Can you take the grill off the cabinet and try it to see if the rattle goes away with the grill? Finding the specific rattle will go a long way toward resolving the problem if it's something other than the speaker itself.

 

[JimmyM]

I loaned my Ampeg B100R to a former student who was down on his luck and had a chance to get paid for playing a jam session at a very small club. When I got the B100R back, the stock speaker sounded distorted. Turned out that the host group was a metal band, and my student was using my combo amp to compete with 2 Marshall 100 watt full stacks. Oh, well...
So I decided to replace the blown speaker, and ordered an Eminence Neo speaker to lessen the weight a little bit. I succeeded in doing that, but the 250 watt rms Neo was nowhere near as clean as the stock speaker had been. I haven't looked for an original Ampeg speaker - I don't know who made the original, but it was very heavy. BTW, that's the only time I've loaned out ANY piece of gear, in 30+ years...I guess I've learned my lesson!

Eminence made it. It sounds to me like the Delta 15a is quite close to it, but man, that original speaker does sound good.

 

[dan1952]

@JimmyM - I'm trying to buy a mint condition B100R from a guy. If I don't get it done I'll most likely buy a 15A and sell the Neo to someone. It's a fine speaker, just not ideal for the Rocket. After hearing the Neo in the Rocket, I decided NOT to put a Neo in my B50R. Ampeg USA knew what they were doing!

 

[beans-on-toast]

Hi,
Recently replaced the standard speaker in my Fender Rumble 40 with a brand new Eminence Legend BP102 10 Inch 200W Bass Speaker . At low volume ok ( much better than the factory speaker) but roll up the bass and or volume and buzz and rattle. Any ideas?

It’s possible that the speaker is not installed properly. The fasteners shouldn’t be overtightened. They should be tightened evenly to ensure that the pressure is even around the rim gasket. Google how to install a speaker.

You have to determine if the buzz and rattle is mechanical from within the cabinet or from the speaker itself. You have to narrow down which it is.

Something may be loose in the cabinet. Even the wires could be rattling. The speaker baffle might have loose laminates. There are many possibilities.

 

[fdeck]

Among the other possibilities, an air leak around the gasket or at the screw holes can cause noises that can mimic a rattle or buzz. Did the speaker come with a gasket to put between the frame and the box?

 

[beans-on-toast]

With a rear mounted speaker, the cone on long excursion may be rubbing against the edge of the baffle cutout. Sometimes it can be fixed with a bit of woodwork.

These issues can drive you nut.

 

[jnewmark]

I remember, years ago, when I was using a rack mounted rig, with a 215 cab, I kept hearing a rattling, buzz sound that drove me nuts. I locked down every screw. Still there. I put a two inch foam pad under the rack. Still there. I took apart the cab to check for loose wires, fasteners, etc. Still there. I isolated rack from cab. Still there. Problem was, I could not pinpoint it when I was playing; it was just there all the time, regardless of amp settings. Finally, one night at set up, I asked the keyboard player to listen to me play and see if he could figure out where it was coming from. He walked around the rig, then went up to the bar and got a bar rag. He put the rag in between the spring loaded handle on the cab, and metal plate it rested against, and, Whamo, rattle noise gone ! Long story short, yeah, it could be anything !

 

[Liam Wald]

Here is what I don't get.
Why would someone even bother to "upgrade" a Fender Rumble 40 in the first place?
But then there a folks who put custom wheels and rims on a Nissan Sentra.
Like they say in Singapore, "Just no accounting for taste".

 

[JimChjones]

Why would someone even bother to "upgrade" a Fender Rumble 40 in the first place?

Why not? If the box basically does what one needs, but a driver upgrade gives it just a little bit more?

 

[eddiemac]

I bought a new Eminence 3012LF that sounded fine at low volume but had a raspy sound when turned up. I think it was voice coil rub, and Eminence replaced it without any hassle.

 

[anderbass]

Mark, you could also check all the way around the cone to see if its delaminated from the surround.

I bought a brand new Eminence Basslite C2515 that had this problem. It rattled like crazy because of a 4" section of the cone that wasn't glued to the surround. I had to lightly press all the way around the edge of the cone to discover the defect, you couldn't tell by just looking... Eminence replaced it under warranty, no problem.

 

[DavC]

is there anything that could be touching the cone when it moves more ..?? wire , insulation , whatever ..?

 

[pie_man_25]

Why not? If the box basically does what one needs, but a driver upgrade gives it just a little bit more?

One of the bigger proponents against modding such an amp is agedhorse, who has been an engineer for a pretty long time and has designed some pretty awesome equipment. His general stance can be boiled down to the fact that these products are designed by other engineers, who know exactly what they're doing and can figure out what compromises to make to achieve an optimal product within certain restrictions - budget being among them. If you're going to be modifying a cabinet, especially just dropping in a random driver, you're probably just going to be replacing an optimal product with one that's less than optimal. Eg. you could replace the speaker for one with a bigger motor, and might benefit from more low-end, but maybe it's designed for a completely different box than the one in the combo; or, you could replace a TL072 with a newer, more expensive op-amp with a higher slew-rate - but in doing so you put the more expensive op-amp into a circuit that it just wasn't designed to work in, maybe the gain is too high or not high enough or any of a million variables that I as a layperson couldn't really think of off the top of my head.

The thing is, as laypeople, we can easily mess about with things we don't know too much about, and passionate hobbyists (like me) can often spout a lot of BS as well. Chances are, sure, you might be able to eek out a few extra DB with some very careful calculation of a modified cabinet for a new driver, but that would take so much time, money and know-how, you might as well just buy another amp or combo.

 

[wave rider]

Fender Rumble v3 40 - First Impressions

I read something about modding the 40 in the last few days. As I remember, one has to change the length of the port to make the new driver happy. Check the thread above and the Rumble Club for more.

Maybe @AstroSonic will chime in too…

 

[Al Kraft]

One of the bigger proponents against modding such an amp is agedhorse, who has been an engineer for a pretty long time and has designed some pretty awesome equipment. His general stance can be boiled down to the fact that these products are designed by other engineers, who know exactly what they're doing and can figure out what compromises to make to achieve an optimal product within certain restrictions - budget being among them. If you're going to be modifying a cabinet, especially just dropping in a random driver, you're probably just going to be replacing an optimal product with one that's less than optimal.

There is often a lot more truth to this than we realize. Just because a "design to cost" goal for a product may dictate the use of components that are not the most exotic or expensive available doesn't automatically mean performance was compromised to a significant degree, if at all. There are many factors that go into a product's performance and changing out pieces and parts without the benefit of understanding the related elements in the design equation can easily lead to disappointment - even when substituting in all top of the line parts.

That's not to say that well-informed tuning and tweaking can't make some noteworthy improvements. However, the trick is to be as well-informed on the design and the trade-off decisions as the person who did the design if you want to be 100% sure changes you're making will be for the better. Too often I think many of us think that a brand name or big money always means better performance. I also suspect that many of us don't always appreciate the limitations inherent in a particular product that come with something like fixed dimensions or choice of materials. As always YMMV!

 

[BassBeginer64]

I have up graded 2 Rumble V3 100s and a Rumble 75 - with Baselite 12" before I did this I contacted EMINENCE SPEAKER, LLC to ANTHONY LUCAS Design Engineer/Technical Support
He pointed me to the correct speakers to use with data sheets, Yes extremely more efficient speakers - had some of the rattling in the upper volume, so I went ahead and added some acoustic foam , which really helped - found out most of the rattling on the Rumble 75 was the dang Fender plate - has to use some foam behind it to stop it, the 100s were great = what i loved most for practicing was mid volume was as loud as 3/4 voulme - no rattling - LOL any thing around it would rattle (Have a cart full of peddle effects that rattle like heck when I am in Boom Mode! FYI also up graded a Rumble V3 25 - Wife complains that she can here it out in the drive way while I practice in the living room- The Rumble 75 is up sale = just got 2 GK Cabs

 

[AstroSonic]

Here is what I don't get.
Why would someone even bother to "upgrade" a Fender Rumble 40 in the first place?
But then there a folks who put custom wheels and rims on a Nissan Sentra.
Like they say in Singapore, "Just no accounting for taste".

Have you ever practiced at home with a gigable rig like 300+w and a nice 112 (or whatever)? If you have, then you know that the tone was a LOT better than a typical 1x6,1x8 or 1x10 combo. Lots better. And chances are you were using well under 40w. Well, provided that the amp is not high-passed too high and the cab has adequate internal volume - like the Rumble 40, you can model the cab with different drivers in an attempt to improve the tone. If you find the bass a bit too thumpy or bloated, or lacking presence (or too much!) you can resolve those issues with a driver upgrade. Most likely, you will need to optimally tune the cab for the new driver. Not everyone is going to be knowledgeable enough to do the modeling, etc., but most can do the mod itself.

What can you expect? Can a speaker upgrade really make much of a difference? IME, yes. A driver chosen for a particular tone, operated in an optimally tuned cab of more or less the same volume as that used with that or similar drivers in 'real' cabs (like 210's, 112's, etc. will yield a tone that is similar to a 'real' cab, at least in a living room size space and at reasonable volume levels. Using your car analogy, a decent speaker upgrade is much more like adding a super charger than custom wheels.

Most players spend a lot of time at practice. Why put up with awful or indifferent tone? I know, some don't really care. But if you do...

 

[JimChjones]

. If you're going to be modifying a cabinet, especially just dropping in a random driver, you're probably just going to be replacing an optimal product with one that's less than optimal.

This is all true, but just because it's easier to make something worse rather than better doesn't mean it's impossible to make it better.

 

[pie_man_25]

This is all true, but just because it's easier to make something worse rather than better doesn't mean it's impossible to make it better.

It's always possible, just takes some figuring. I'm definitely the sort to encourage doing the figuring - you just have to be realistic about objectives and results and eager to learn and make mistakes about the process.

 

[AstroSonic]

A couple of things to keep in mind with respect to success of a dirver upgrade:

1) Success is in the ear of the player. There are no right and wrong tones. It's strictly personal preference.

2) The chances for success are greatly improved by the fact that your budget for a driver can greatly exceed that of the engineers who designed the combo. In the case of the Rumble 40, this was likely in the range of $25-$40 retail. That is extremely limiting and challenging. When you consider the sales of the stock combo you have to admit that a lot of players like the tone and feature set of this combo. However, your budget can be 200+% higher. It's still only a 40w combo, but if you feel that the worth of a combo is far more than just how loud it can get, then a driver upgrade can add real value.

3) With a few exceptions, most combo bass amps are designed to capture market share (i.e., give most players the tone and performance that they like). In the case of the Rumble 40, a driver with a high Qts was chosen. This strongly determines the character of the bass: rich, thumpy and rounded, and with extention only into the mid-upper bass in that cab. It is relatively easy to choose a driver that will produce deeper, more articulate bass in that cab (if that's what you want). Things do get more complicated as we address the voicing of the mids and highs. Realize that a good engineer, given the same driver budget, could develop a more optimum, cost effective solution, possibly even developing a driver specifically for the project. Fortunately, some highly gifted engineers have developed a wide range of drivers from which to choose.