Speaker size v. Tone: I don't hear any correlation

[Jazzdogg]

People prefer sounds that are louder. That's it. Tons of science behind that one but people almost inevitably prefer things that are louder over quieter.

My personal preference is for sounds that are well balanced and just loud enough so I can hear subtleties without suffering ear fatigue. The sound at most performance venues is too loud for me.

I don't tolerate loud sounds very well, and despite the fact that my hearing gets a little worse with each passing year, I find loud high frequencies downright painful.

 

[bassbrad]

I just prefer the way a 15" speaker moves air for bass, sometimes in combination with other speakers. For recording I will sometimes use a 1x12 or 1x10 just because those speakers are easier to mic in the space available.

 

[Johnius]

but I also think I can hear the difference created by speaker size. 10s seem to give the illusion, or impresison, of bottom, while the bottom is clearly present in my 15. I tend not to be crazy about 10s. However, the SWR Goliath 410 sounds freakin great - tons of low end.

 

[aborgman]

People prefer sounds that are louder. That's it. Tons of science behind that one but people almost inevitably prefer things that are louder over quieter.

Yep - hundreds of psycho-accoustics papers written on the subject.

It's why level matching in audio blind testing is so important.

 

[JimmyM]

but I also think I can hear the difference created by speaker size. 10s seem to give the illusion, or impresison, of bottom, while the bottom is clearly present in my 15. I tend not to be crazy about 10s. However, the SWR Goliath 410 sounds freakin great - tons of low end.

not trying to pick on you or anything, but have you read this thread at all? because honestly, i don't see how you could say that if you have. all you need to do is look at the specs of different drivers at eminence.com to see that there's nothing to the speaker size theory.

 

[rpsands]

My personal preference is for sounds that are well balanced and just loud enough so I can hear subtleties without suffering ear fatigue. The sound at most performance venues is too loud for me.

I don't tolerate loud sounds very well, and despite the fact that my hearing gets a little worse with each passing year, I find loud high frequencies downright painful.

My wife has this same phenomenon but with low frequencies. Makes me laugh that she married a bass player

You probably like stuff loud enough that the fletcher-munson curves don't make the bass too quiet

 

[BogeyBass]

but I also think I can hear the difference created by speaker size. 10s seem to give the illusion, or impresison, of bottom, while the bottom is clearly present in my 15. I tend not to be crazy about 10s. However, the SWR Goliath 410 sounds freakin great - tons of low end.

yes indeed on the 15's , and the swr 410 sounds pretty good, and the 4 x 12 swr goliath sounds great too, not sure if they offer the 4x12 anymore but they are floating around. i have heard a full stack of Goliath 4 x 12 pushed with a Sunn Model T. with only a 150watts of tube power it will give a SVT a run for its weight and money. keep in mind when really pushed they have a thumpy sound similar to a 8x10 which is ok but a flat or boosted mid is ideal to make up for it. i would be surprized to find out their is eminence drivers in those, and curious if you know what speakers are in the 10" and 12" Goliath cabs??

 

[rpsands]

The older SWR stuff had PAS drivers, at one point they used Bag End drivers, and they eventually switched to Eminence.

 

[Sunnmon]

BogeyBass you are correct. You didn't rant! WinSD or other fairytale Apple Ipod programs are fine for puny speakers. How can anyone argue against an OEM Sunn 200S or an OEM ACC301?? Funny how they have retained their value. I know, I know "OVERWEIGHT, UNDERPOWERED dINOSAURS"
that's wot i bluddy thought. I do like my SWR Goliath III 4 x10 and my SWR 12Stack 412S, i have 2 of each, 4 Sunn 2x 15 all with Lansings and 3 ACC "W" bins so i CAN do A/B/C/D side by side comparisons AND POWER THEM WITH EITHER 3 370's or a Pair of Coliseums. Oh well to each his own. Just get wot makes you happy and go play or maybe a duel @ dawn?
Peace and Happiness to all.

 

[Sunnmon]

12 stack uses same Eminence as the Aguilar GS412.
I own a 1973 Sunn Model T and do use it with 2 SWR 412 or 2 SWR Goliath III 410's. sounds Titanic with 8 12"s.

 

[BogeyBass]

I will say this. In my experience, more material vibrating generally means a richer, darker, warmer sound. Granted everything is vibrating in the right way. That's part of why 8x10s sound so rich I think. It has as much to do with the speakers as the fact that the cabinet itself is absolutely huge. Also, I think part of the reason many prefer 4x10 over 1x15 is because there is literally 25 more inches worth of stuff vibrating.

My theory, though possibly wrong and definitely undereducated, is that more things resonating will make a "better" sound

pretty much the more matching drivers the better , a 8x10 cabinet is just a line array of 10" speakers
when you arrange a line of tightly grouped matching drivers. they all start to interact and produce a strong focused beam of sound. Since low frequencys are considered mono and non directional, the 8x10 in theory will not waste power filling the room with sound, but project it in a narrow beam towards your audience , instead of wasting power and shooting it all around. frequencys below 500hz are very non directional and eat up lots of power to go nowhere quickly. the line array will conserve power and shoot sound straight out into your audiences chest. same reason the marshall full stack is unchanged for 50 years
its a line array of matching speakers . same reason large hanging line arrays are at every major concert event they don't waste power to fill the air, they shoot it straight towards the paying customers.

 

[rpsands]

Yeah, when I play shows my audience pretty much just all lines up in front of my bass cab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_array

Go read up on line arrays. The 8x10 is basically *two* line arrays, which destructively interfere with each others' horizontal dispersion. The goal of the line array oriented vertically like that is to *increase* horizontal dispersion while decreasing vertical dispersion.

 

[JimmyM]

Yeah, when I play shows my audience pretty much just all lines up in front of my bass cab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_array

Go read up on line arrays.

this thread was good until people who haven't read a thing in it started commenting. not that i'm against any of the cabs they're talking about, but geez, read the freaking thread, people!

 

[Kwesi]

this thread was good until people who haven't read a thing in it started commenting. not that i'm against any of the cabs they're talking about, but geez, read the freaking thread, people!

Read my mind, lol. People are coming here turning it into a "Which cab is the best for _________" type thread. I know for a page or 2 we all went way off topic but were back on track now (I think ) and I'd like for it to stay that way.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Or the one that believes talkbass is made up of geniuses that are so smart instead of getting paid for their GOD wealth of knowledge rather sit on a forum every day.

Or the guy who thinks he can make smart a$$ comments about people he knows nothing about and their motivations behind their posting here.

Paul

 

[BogeyBass]

Yeah, when I play shows my audience pretty much just all lines up in front of my bass cab.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_array

Go read up on line arrays. The 8x10 is basically *two* line arrays, which destructively interfere with each others' horizontal dispersion. The goal of the line array oriented vertically like that is to *increase* horizontal dispersion while decreasing vertical dispersion.

Yes indeed you are correct, but i never said anything about
horizontal or vertical dispersion, i was just making the point that the idea is to conserve power and direct sound towards the listeners, and not the side walls or ceiling. yes indeed you can control the vertical or horizontal depending on how you lay the array. and the main point again just like the wiki said is to direct sound were its is important rather than waste power sending it to a wall or over the heads of the audience. It is very expensive
to power a concert, and a promoter doesnt want to waste power or have spots were sound drops out. with older systems they discovered literally thousands of watts of sound pressure was just hitting the ceiling and people in the rear don't hear the concert as well. so in order to have the further seats hear they have to buy more power. same problem still it all gets lost to the ceiling.so the line array saved this problem and most line arrays are not stacked they hang and are assembled in a curve to shot sound straight out and downward. the curve will acheive multible angles to get the front of the audience all the way to the back of the audience. and no need to pay for racks of power hungry amps that nobody hears.

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[BogeyBass]

Read my mind, lol. People are coming here turning it into a "Which cab is the best for _________" type thread. I know for a page or 2 we all went way off topic but were back on track now (I think ) and I'd like for it to stay that way.

yep for sure way off track here, male ego mainly and a bunch of potheads trying to sound cool

 

[Passinwind]

all you need to do is look at the specs of different drivers at eminence.com to see that there's nothing to the speaker size theory.

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[JimmyM]

once again, you killed, charlie!

 

[rpsands]

Yes indeed you are correct, but i never said anything about
horizontal or vertical dispersion, i was just making the point that the idea is to conserve power and direct sound towards the listeners, and not the side walls or ceiling. yes indeed you can control the vertical or horizontal depending on how you lay the array. and the main point again just like the wiki said is to direct sound were its is important rather than waste power sending it to a wall or over the heads of the audience. It is very expensive

What do you think directing sound is exactly? Controlling dispersion.