Speakers Vertically Stacked

[Downunderwonder]

Beaming doesn't matter if there is a PA doing the main sound to a big crowd. If your bandmates don't mind pillow bass all the better.

Go to a gig where the 8x10 or 4x10 is it, no bass in PA. Listen to the bass dead in front, then off to the side. Big difference.

 

[Jeffrey Wash]

Awesome pics colcifer! Thanks for posting that.

I find that on some stages, in some rooms, I can in fact get batter results by doing the vertical stacking thing. But not always. In my experience it isn't an absolute. Factoring in more practical concerns - I tend to agree with ksandvik on this - I've lately been defaulting back to horizontal stacking.

 

[johnsonabq]

Beaming doesn't matter if there is a PA doing the main sound to a big crowd. If your bandmates don't mind pillow bass all the better.

Go to a gig where the 8x10 or 4x10 is it, no bass in PA. Listen to the bass dead in front, then off to the side. Big difference.

Oh yeah... I've been using one or two 4-10 cabs for years. I'm looking forward to hearing what this sounds like. I'm also curious to hear the difference compared to my Aggie 4-12 with staggered speakers. The Aggie is paired with a high powered (950 watts) high end amp and is only for the largest of venues or outdoors. I like the small footprint I'm getting from the RS cabs. Very useful on small stages.

 

[will33]

Ya, I'm very much down with the vertical array. I'm also down with cabs designed to minimize beaming and maximize dispersion. But beaming really doesn't bother me like other aspects of this scientific stuff. It's the one thing that doesn't bother me. Bothers me in a PA, doesn't bother me in a bass or guitar cab.

Beaming doesn't matter if there is a PA doing the main sound to a big crowd. If your bandmates don't mind pillow bass all the better.

Go to a gig where the 8x10 or 4x10 is it, no bass in PA. Listen to the bass dead in front, then off to the side. Big difference.

Some good points here. When you're in the PA, your rig is a stage monitor. It's the PA's job to spread the sound wide for the audience. When you look at PA equipment, it's nearly all designed to do that, even cheap ones. Bass rigs fail to take this into account for the most part. To the player, just getting some speakers closer to ear level seems "good enough" I guess although spreading your sound across the stage is also nice for the other guys in the band. The makers act as if nobody uses their rig ro play to an audience when the opposite is true in the vast majority of this country. Not many places outside of major cities where everywhere you go is going to provide you with PA capable of handling bass.....or PA at all.

One reason is people keep buying the same stuff so they keep making the same stuff. Another is, it's cheaper to manufacture when you just make a cube and stick speakers in it wherever they fit, rather than making a proper box for each model. Many makers use the same box for a 210 and a 112, or a 115, a 212 and a 410 for example.

 

[colcifer]

Awesome pics colcifer! Thanks for posting that.

It was aptly named the "Wall of Sound" if you want to find out more.

 

[JimmyM]

Beaming doesn't matter if there is a PA doing the main sound to a big crowd. If your bandmates don't mind pillow bass all the better.

Pillow bass...whatever. I prefer to call it sounding like a man

Go to a gig where the 8x10 or 4x10 is it, no bass in PA. Listen to the bass dead in front, then off to the side. Big difference.

I've done stage volume gigs with my B-15 and 810 before. You are correct. Don't care. It sounds awesome anyway. Not really looking for the Marcus Miller sound.

 

[Rockbobmel]

I get a kick out of the Owsley wall needed to be micked!!

 

[mrjim123]

[snip] but the difference in ear level between a tall person standing and a short person sitting might still only be 4 ft.

But if you take into account the drunk lying face down on the floor it's more like 6 ft.

 

[JimWasHere]

I've done stage volume gigs with my B-15 and 810 before. You are correct. Don't care. It sounds awesome anyway. Not really looking for the Marcus Miller sound.

I maintain that if you want people to hear your man-pillow, then they should heard it in the whole room, rather than just on the outsides

Don't I remember seeing pics of you stacking two 210av cabs vertically?

And of course, if you're playing an 810 at volume, it's just cool enough to not matter any more.

 

[will33]

But if you take into account the drunk lying face down on the floor it's more like 6 ft.

The drunk lying on the floor is a key indicator of a well played gig. That's when you know people are having all the fun they can handle.

 

[Joe Louvar]

The wider the source the narrower the angle of dispersion. The ideal speaker would be about an inch wide and thirty feet high. That's not all that practical, though it has been done. The closer you can get to that ideal configuration the better. As soon as you put two drivers side by side you're headed in the wrong direction

I wonder how deep that speaker was and was it a bass woofer - and would a skinny rectangle shaped driver even work very well - does anyone know?

 

[Ric5]

So if you have a good pa that is set up properly and you use it to run your bass signal then it really doesn't matter how you stack your speaker cabs of your bass amp because only you will hear them. The audience will hear the pa system.

 

[JimmyM]

I maintain that if you want people to hear your man-pillow, then they should heard it in the whole room, rather than just on the outsides

Well we almost always have PA so it's kind of a moot point for me except now and then. But it's done so well for me when I've done stage volume gigs that I don't sweat it.

Don't I remember seeing pics of you stacking two 210av cabs vertically?

Indeedy-do, Jim. If I can minimize beaming with my rig, I will. And it does beam less than my 810 or 215 stack, no doubt about it. But it's nothing I agonize over. As long as I'm happy with what the audience is hearing on my rare stage volume gigs, that's all I care. Will it be brighter in front of my amp? Certainly. But only a little when you consider my usual tone.

And of course, if you're playing an 810 at volume, it's just cool enough to not matter any more.

I NEVER get to play an 810 at volume. While lately I have been successful in my attempts to increase our stage volume a little, it's only been a little. But it sounds so good anyway that I don't mind playing a huge cab at piddly volumes. I know I can get away with much smaller...it's just plain fun!

 

[johnsonabq]

So if you have a good pa that is set up properly and you use it to run your bass signal then it really doesn't matter how you stack your speaker cabs of your bass amp because only you will hear them. The audience will hear the pa system.

My whole point of view here is "on stage". Our PA will have the bass send in it and handle the house. I'm just concerned about hearing the bass when I wander on stage. And the drummer who'll be next to the cabs. Our monitors are really only set up for vocals.

 

[will33]

My whole point of view here is "on stage". Our PA will have the bass send in it and handle the house. I'm just concerned about hearing the bass when I wander on stage. And the drummer who'll be next to the cabs. Our monitors are really only set up for vocals.

Our little band is sort of a "DIY" band, in that we use my PA and I mix us from stage, with the help of a wireless to hear what's going on out front. When we do these type of gigs, I set my rig up like a sidefill, playing across the stage rather than faced out front towards the audience. My rig has wide dispersion but it could be pretty narrow and the whole band would still hear me, and it doesn't interfere as much with the sound out front that I'm trying to get right. Problem is, it doesn't "look right". You'd be amazed how many people listen with their eyes.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Works for me:

Scientific reason it works: the sound waves don't trip over each other as they leave the stage.

Riis

 

[johnsonabq]

Our little band is sort of a "DIY" band, in that we use my PA and I mix us from stage, with the help of a wireless to hear what's going on out front. When we do these type of gigs, I set my rig up like a sidefill, playing across the stage rather than faced out front towards the audience. My rig has wide dispersion but it could be pretty narrow and the whole band would still hear me, and it doesn't interfere as much with the sound out front that I'm trying to get right. Problem is, it doesn't "look right". You'd be amazed how many people listen with their eyes.

+1 on the hear with their eyes. So true. That's why I never rely on the club to have lights. I'm showing up at the gig with enough LED par cans to flood the stage with some good color. I usually run the sound from stage too. And yes, I do often put my rig on the side. Especially if we have a sound man for the night. They bitch less. LOL

 

[johnsonabq]

Works for me:

Scientific reason it works: the sound waves don't trip over each other as they leave the stage.

Riis

I'll bet it does. Sweet!

 

[dspellman]

Some say that horizontally stacked cabinets sound better than vertically stacked

Off With Their Heads!.......Queen of Hearts

 

[will33]

Couple examples of how wide dispersion is still of great benefit disregarding the audience.

1. When set up facing forward, much of the band is off center, they still get a good deal more of your sound, not just the lows.

2. In my sidefill setup, the rig is aimed pretty much squarely at the guitar player on the opposite side of the stage. The drummer is a bit off center one way, the frontman the other. Me at my mic position (I sing a lot of harmony) is way off axis. I still get a nice sound, as do the other guys in the band, and because everyone can hear it so well, I don't have to run it as loud to sound big, fat and full. Less interference with the PA, less heat/stress on the amp, less wear and tear on my speakers. Really can't think of a downside.