SPECTOR® Club - Part 24

[iceboxbass]

I have to disagree here.

Most MIM Fenders and all of the MIA Fenders I've picked up have been playable. But only a select few have been really good. Same with Squiers. I'd take a Squier or Fender over a Spector Legend any day. There, I said it. In the Spector club.

I'm not a Fender fan boy and I've played plenty of basses that I like better than Fender, but saying only 1 in 5 is playable is ridiculous.

DUDE!!!! Oooooooh! I know you just didnt go there! I replaced a Squire with a Legend 4, my first SPECTOR! IMHO, the legend is 1,000,000 more bass than any Squire or Fender that I've held and played.

 

[AdamR]

sounds like someone just doesnt like Spectors

 

[KingRazor]

DUDE!!!! Oooooooh! I know you just didnt go there! I replaced a Squire with a Legend 4, my first SPECTOR! IMHO, the legend is 1,000,000 more bass than any Squire or Fender that I've held and played.

That's fine that you like it more. My experience was different. I did not think the Legend lived up to the Squier VM or some of the Fender MIMs I've played.

To each their own.

I do want to stress however that my opinion of the Spector Legend does not extend to the rest of the Spector line, and does not affect my judgement of Spector as a company.

From all I've heard, read, and watched, Spector is a great company that makes a quality product. I just don't think they do the budget, overseas thing as well as some other companies.

 

[CarlosRoberto5]

I think KingRazor has just has some bad experiences with the Legends that he's played.
There could've been many factors that caused a foul experience, but who knows, maybe when he gets his hands on a Euro he'll get the Spector itch?
I get the feeling he just hasn't played the right one (for him) yet.
I have faith in you, KingRazor!

 

[grendle]

It would be cool if a bunch of us lived close enough to set up a meet and bring all our Spectors so we could play different models and see some of those beauties up close.

 

[KingRazor]

I think KingRazor has just has some bad experiences with the Legends that he's played.
There could've been many factors that caused a foul experience, but who knows, maybe when he gets his hands on a Euro he'll get the Spector itch?
I get the feeling he just hasn't played the right one (for him) yet.
I have faith in you, KingRazor!

And I still have faith in Spector!

This thread and JPS especially have given me a strong urge to try a nice Euro Spector. I'm excited to try one when I can.

I simply have no interest in the Legend or Performer series. I haven't actually tried the Performers, but honestly my thought is why settle for less than a Euro or USA?

I'm an Ibanez fan. I love their basses. It's currently my favorite brand. But, I would never buy a SR300. I just find it to be an inferior instrument. I think even less of the GSR series. But the SR500 on the other hand, that is an amazing bass.

Sometimes I find the quality of the "entry-level" models of a particular brand to be quite good, like with the Squier Vintage Modified basses.

But in the cases of Spector, Ibanez, and a few others, I just don't think they're good enough. I feel you need to go up the ladder a bit with those brands to start getting good, quality instruments.

 

[JPSBassist]

BTW, the Hipshot A bridge has a round adjustable string mount in the saddle. Which means the amount of string/saddle surface contact remains the same regardless of the saddle height.

Honestly the Hipshot A is a brilliant design. A really killer/functional bridge that allows for all sorts of adjustment of the bridge.

So angling the saddles on that bridge is pointless, for the surface area of the string to the saddle won't change.

With the Spector saddle it will. So that's why angling them is a good idea.

 

[PhatBasstard]

OK. Sorry... I hate to break up Phat's rant but my friend you couldn't be more wrong about the Hipshot bridge and the new USA Spector bridge with intonation screws.

The port in the back that allows the screw to go through the body of the bridge is wide enough to allow for the 14 degree headstock angle on Spector basses.

And look at it like this... you don't have to angle your saddles because the anchor point for the string on every bridge Spector has used... from the Leo Quan to the Hipshot to the current Spector Designed bridges provide an angle of at least 10 degrees when the saddle is FLAT.

Matching the angle of your saddle is suggested to give maximum surface to surface contact between the string and the saddle and thus lessen the likelihood of snapping a string.

Look at these photos to see what I mean. You CAN easily adjust the Hipshot (got one on my B.O.B. bass) and the Spector Bridge. It's not going to bend the screw or mess up your saddles because the port is widened to allow for play in angling the saddles.

And even the Leo Quan has height adjustment screws... you can't adjust the angle of the saddles but look at the angle of the string to the saddle in my old NS-2JA-R (first picture below)... which had the saddles as low as they could go... see that angle?

Which is why the Badass I bridge has a reputation for being a string snapper. If you raise the saddles the surface to string area lessens and becomes like a razor. If you have a heavy playing hand you'll snap your D and/or G strings.

And lastly, what's the big deal? I mean Phat I've got nothing but love and respect for you but you seem to get worked up about stuff as if it's some sort of thing these companies are doing to mislead people or something.

I just spent a week with Stuart and I promise you the guy is not about misleading or BS-ing people. You may not agree with his choices... heck... sometimes I don't... but he's a super person and he does care about the people who buy ANY of his instruments... Performer to USA.

I promise you there's no conspiracy or anything like that afoot here. A lot of luthiers seem to think that matching your bridge/saddle string mount angle to your headstock angle increases sustain because there's a symmetry to the tension place on the string at either anchor point. Thus increasing the energy of the vibration between the points.

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Patrick, no offence but I've covered near everyone of your points, from an engineering standpoint in several previous posts.

Your pictures aren't detailed enough to see, but on the one that is I still can't see where the intonation screw anchor point is movable to allow programmed tilt. I haven't had one in my hands to study so I'm going off pictures, but.....

Bottom line (and I have owned Badasses), nobody, and I mean nobody, had forward/backwards tilt adjustment on their saddles. No one! Show me one. This includes Badasses. This has been a known potential issue with them (and others) for years. If its sharp, you file it smooth, preferably round. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with forward/backwards tilt.

Tilting the saddle back does not change the contact point surface area at all if your contact point is properly rounded (again see the hipshot A...they "get it"). It does, however make it so the contact pressure between the saddle and bridge plate is not evenly distributed.

I ran my saddles flat for 15 years before I ever even heard of this recommendation. Thought "What the hell..I'll try it", even though I could see there would be no real reason for it. Maybe comfort. Guess what. No difference other than one saddle wanted to flip to it's backside when the set screw was loosened. Performance? Nothing, zero.

Finally, I don't believe Jimmy or anyone at Spector is trying to "deceive" anyone. Jimmy may be a great setup man, but in this minor instance, from what he's promoting, or perhaps this tilt idea was something that looked like a good idea at some quick point, but was never totally analyzed properly, or maybe he just isn't good at seeing how things work from an engineering stand point, but the application and the reasoning are flawed.
Spector was rather infamous for this kind of "on the surface" but not always fully/deeply correct kind of physical and historical info on their products in the days of the old site.
You, JPS, have helped to correct much of that, but it's still a work in progress.

Keeping your saddles flat keeps them the most stable, are less likely to slide forward if your set screw comes loose and more evenly distributes the downward force (thus coupling) between the saddle and bridge plate.

Engineering and physical laws don't change, whether you can see them or not......even for Spector.

 

[iceboxbass]

Interesting. However, my preference is actually for a bolt-on. I prefer the fact that if the neck suffers damage, it can be replaced much more easily than on a neck through.

True but...I've not heard anyone, atleast here, of any Neck-thru becoming damaged and or to the point of needing replaced. Sounds like a lame excuse to me. You'd be better to say that you just like the tone of bolt-ons better. :scowl:

 

[PhatBasstard]

BTW, the Hipshot A bridge has a round adjustable string mount in the saddle. Which means the amount of string/saddle surface contact remains the same regardless of the saddle height.

This is the kind of misapplied understanding of an engineering concept I'm talking about.
Those internal rollers are for one thing and one thing only:
They're for side to side adjustment. You turn them like a screw to make that notch, where the string sits, go from one side to the other. Nothing more. Nothing to do with tilt/height. No extra Juju.

 

[KingRazor]

True but...I've not heard anyone, atleast here, of any Neck-thru becoming damaged and or to the point of needing replaced. Sounds like a lame excuse to me. You'd be better to say that you just like the tone of bolt-ons better. :scowl:

I can only remember playing 2 or 3 neck-thrus in my life time, so I couldn't comfortably say that I liked the tone or playability of either one better.

Just sorta paranoid. lol.

 

[grendle]

I think KingRazor has just has some bad experiences with the Legends that he's played.
There could've been many factors that caused a foul experience, but who knows, maybe when he gets his hands on a Euro he'll get the Spector itch?
I get the feeling he just hasn't played the right one (for him) yet.
I have faith in you, KingRazor!

I agree and I think I know what he dosent like about the necks. He needs to find an NS2a, SSD, NS2000, Euro, or US. One thing fender did get right was the neck edges. They always roll them well and they feel broken in. Most over seas basses miss that pretty bad. usually you see that on bolt ons for some reason. That's a big turn off for me. Seen it on some legends and rebops.

 

[grendle]

And I still have faith in Spector!

This thread and JPS especially have given me a strong urge to try a nice Euro Spector. I'm excited to try one when I can.

I simply have no interest in the Legend or Performer series. I haven't actually tried the Performers, but honestly my thought is why settle for less than a Euro or USA?

I'm an Ibanez fan. I love their basses. It's currently my favorite brand. But, I would never buy a SR300. I just find it to be an inferior instrument. I think even less of the GSR series. But the SR500 on the other hand, that is an amazing bass.

Sometimes I find the quality of the "entry-level" models of a particular brand to be quite good, like with the Squier Vintage Modified basses.

But in the cases of Spector, Ibanez, and a few others, I just don't think they're good enough. I feel you need to go up the ladder a bit with those brands to start getting good, quality instruments.

You'll fall in love with a Doug W sig then. The whole neck is like the first 4 frets on the SR. Spacing isn't far off either. That was my favorite neck till I played my dougie. Just blown away by it.

 

[KingRazor]

You'll fall in love with a Doug W sig then. The whole neck is like the first 4 frets on the SR. Spacing isn't far off either. That was my favorite neck till I played my dougie. Just blown away by it.

Actually, I think the Doug could be a little too thin for me.

I love a really thin neck on a 5-string. It helps make up for how wide they are.

On a 4 string, however, the necks on the Ibanez SRs are actually a little too thin for me and I get hand fatigue after playing.

On the other hand, I really enjoy modern MIA P basses (1.625 nut width) and Jazz basses.

So, the standard NS-2 or Euro4LX Classic necks might be perfect. I've never even seen one in real life before though, much less played one.

 

[grendle]

Actually, I think the Doug could be a little too thin for me.

I love a really thin neck on a 5-string. It helps make up for how wide they are.

On a 4 string, however, the necks on the Ibanez SRs are actually a little too thin for me and I get hand fatigue after playing.

On the other hand, I really enjoy modern MIA P basses (1.625 nut width) and Jazz basses.

So, the standard NS-2 or Euro4LX Classic necks might be perfect. I've never even seen one in real life before though, much less played one.

Lol I don't like the ibby. 5's cause their too thin.

 

[iceboxbass]

OK. Sorry... I hate to break up Phat's rant but my friend you couldn't be more wrong about the Hipshot bridge and the new USA Spector bridge with intonation screws.

The port in the back that allows the screw to go through the body of the bridge is wide enough to allow for the 14 degree headstock angle on Spector basses.

And look at it like this... you don't have to angle your saddles because the anchor point for the string on every bridge Spector has used... from the Leo Quan to the Hipshot to the current Spector Designed bridges provide an angle of at least 10 degrees when the saddle is FLAT.

Matching the angle of your saddle is suggested to give maximum surface to surface contact between the string and the saddle and thus lessen the likelihood of snapping a string.

Look at these photos to see what I mean. You CAN easily adjust the Hipshot (got one on my B.O.B. bass) and the Spector Bridge. It's not going to bend the screw or mess up your saddles because the port is widened to allow for play in angling the saddles.

And even the Leo Quan has height adjustment screws... you can't adjust the angle of the saddles but look at the angle of the string to the saddle in my old NS-2JA-R (first picture below)... which had the saddles as low as they could go... see that angle?

Which is why the Badass I bridge has a reputation for being a string snapper. If you raise the saddles the surface to string area lessens and becomes like a razor. If you have a heavy playing hand you'll snap your D and/or G strings.

And lastly, what's the big deal? I mean Phat I've got nothing but love and respect for you but you seem to get worked up about stuff as if it's some sort of thing these companies are doing to mislead people or something.

I just spent a week with Stuart and I promise you the guy is not about misleading or BS-ing people. You may not agree with his choices... heck... sometimes I don't... but he's a super person and he does care about the people who buy ANY of his instruments... Performer to USA.

I promise you there's no conspiracy or anything like that afoot here. A lot of luthiers seem to think that matching your bridge/saddle string mount angle to your headstock angle increases sustain because there's a symmetry to the tension place on the string at either anchor point. Thus increasing the energy of the vibration between the points.

Thank you JPS!

 

[JPSBassist]

That's fine that you like it more. My experience was different. I did not think the Legend lived up to the Squier VM or some of the Fender MIMs I've played.

To each their own.

I do want to stress however that my opinion of the Spector Legend does not extend to the rest of the Spector line, and does not affect my judgement of Spector as a company.

From all I've heard, read, and watched, Spector is a great company that makes a quality product. I just don't think they do the budget, overseas thing as well as some other companies.

Everyone be nice to KingRazor... he's just expressing his feelings and everyone should have a right to do that. I totally agree that there's a big jump in quality and features between the Professional Series and the Europe Series. So it's all good.

I wouldn't say that the Legends are on the level of the MIM Fenders and lower end Ibby's... they're much better made (now). In the last two years the Korean Spectors have really jumped up in quality... better woods (they're solid maple now) and better construction detail. But I totally agree that the first Euro you pick up will have you gassing for one of them and less for the Korean made models.

Many professional guys like StaindBass here in this club, AKA Johnny April of Staind, will tell you they prefer the Legends. To each their own.

But about KingRazor, never knock anyone for being honest about their opinion. I'm hopeful in time we'll get him to join this club.

 

[evanatch]

That's fine that you like it more. My experience was different. I did not think the Legend lived up to the Squier VM or some of the Fender MIMs I've played.

To each their own.

I do want to stress however that my opinion of the Spector Legend does not extend to the rest of the Spector line, and does not affect my judgement of Spector as a company.

From all I've heard, read, and watched, Spector is a great company that makes a quality product. I just don't think they do the budget, overseas thing as well as some other companies.

It seems to me like you just the feel of a Squier or Fender to a Spector Legend. Which is OK, because honestly that kind of thing is just all personal preference. I tried a lot of 5-strings before I decided on my Performer Deluxe 5, including a Squier VM Jazz 5er, and the Spector just felt best in my hands and sounded best to my ears. Whatever works for you.

On the other hand, you've got to try a Euro.

 

[iceboxbass]

It would be cool if a bunch of us lived close enough to set up a meet and bring all our Spectors so we could play different models and see some of those beauties up close.

+1!
I bought my first Spector, Legend 4, before I even knew that this club existed. I'm glad I found this place!

 

[JPSBassist]

This is the kind of misapplied understanding of an engineering concept I'm talking about.
Those internal rollers are for one thing and one thing only:
They're for side to side adjustment. You turn them like a screw to make that notch, where the string sits, go from one side to the other. Nothing more. Nothing to do with tilt/height. No extra Juju.

Dude... what? Yes, the design of that saddle is to allow for side to side adjustment...

I DIDN'T SAY THEY DESIGNED THAT ROUND STRING MOUNT BECAUSE OF THE ANGLE.

I said that the PHYSICS of that design, meaning the circular design, makes adjusting the SADDLE ANGLE a moot point because being round, the string mount will allow for the same amount of string to saddle contact regardless the angle.

Did you take geometry in high school or college? Not picking at you or questioning your education, I know you're a really smart and experienced guy... but my point was that the design in that bridge automatically takes care of the issue.

And still, with three contact points per saddle... one in the back (the intonation screw) which is anchored into the main bridge structure and two height adjustment screws in the front, the saddle as you raise it WILL AUTOMATICALLY angle back because the back anchor, the intonation screw, has a fixed point on the bridge.

Simple geometry.

See the attached diagram...

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