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Steely Dan's Freddie Washington is being robbed on tour

#41
THAT is how the vast majority of shows I've seen in the last 20 years are mixed. Kick drum is GOD to sound people. Everything else seems to be of lesser importance- with the bass as a supporting fundamental instrument that should be kinda heard. I saw Tower of Power with Rocco and Garibaldi, and Rocco was buried. I knew the sound crew at the venue- and chided them for doing that, but they told me that that was TOWER'S sound guy! I HATE subwoofers and the power crazed people that run them like they're at a rap concert, or mixing for a DJ!
I also heard Three Dog Night... bass buried, and here's what really sucked- the kick drum buried almost everything, including the most important thing- the VOCALS!
When I play large showrooms, other musicians tell me I was not heard. I've given up talking to soundmen. I just go do the gig now, like Freddy. And he is a great bassist.

P.S., the BASS absolutely MAKES plenty of Steely Dan tunes. "Peg?" "Kid Charlemange?" Wonder what THOSE tunes sound like with almost no bass!
 
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#44
I can't imagine a live record like "New York Rock & Soul Revue" and not hearing Lincoln Schleifers bass throughout.

I mean cmon, do you think if Steely Dan does another live recording they will have the bass buried in the mix? H##L NO!

I saw Bruce Springsteen on "The River" tour and you could clearly hear the bassist despite all of the instruments and the rather foggy mix....matter of fact the bassist carried the band much of the time.

You can still have a powerful kick drum & clear bass mix as well as vocals...I've heard it done very well many times with regional acts.

Its a shame when huge touring acts come thru and the mix is garbage...happens way too much imo.
 
#48
LHbassist said:
THAT is how the vast majority of shows I've seen in the last 20 years are mixed. Kick drum is GOD to sound people. Everything else seems to be of lesser importance- with the bass as a supporting fundamental instrument that should be kinda heard. I saw Tower of Power with Rocco and Garibaldi, and Rocco was buried. I knew the sound crew at the venue- and chided them for doing that, but they told me that that was TOWER'S sound guy! I HATE subwoofers and the power crazed people that run them like they're at a rap concert, or mixing for a DJ!
I also heard Three Dog Night... bass buried, and here's what really sucked- the kick drum buried almost everything, including the most important thing- the VOCALS!
When I play large showrooms, other musicians tell me I was not heard. I've given up talking to soundmen. I just go do the gig now, like Freddy. And he is a great bassist.

P.S., the BASS absolutely MAKES plenty of Steely Dan tunes. "Peg?" "Kid Charlemange?" Wonder what THOSE tunes sound like with almost no bass!
Click to expand...
IM(very)HO, SD's 2 greatest tunes (among so many). Ever.

Oh, & yes to everything else in this post, too :thumbsup:.
 
#50
I know a professional sound guy who has toured with Sir Paul, Madonna and many top acts, who will not work with KISS and several other well known acts because they still use gear from the 70/80s cause for them its all about the money. Now I'm not saying this is the case here just something to remember when a show you see is less then stellar.
 
#51
theduke1 said:
I know a professional sound guy who has toured with Sir Paul, Madonna and many top acts, who will not work with KISS and several other well known acts because they still use gear from the 70/80s cause for them its all about the money. Now I'm not saying this is the case here just something to remember when a show you see is less then stellar.
Click to expand...
Kiss is still using that PA gear because to them it probably sounds better. I heard the live isolated Bass from Gene Simmons, and his tone is REALLY good. Nasty and mean good.

This is similar to the eternal fight between any new amp and the 79 lb tube heads. Aren't people who play those, essentially still using the gear from the 70s?
 
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#54
AltGrendel said:
That is not the case so much any more. Check out the Yamaha M7 for example; you attache that puppy to a network, download their software to an iPad and you can check the mix from anywhere in the house (depending on your wireless range). Makes a huge difference.
Click to expand...

bottomend! said:
and... approaching the gig this way would indicate that the sound man would be incompetent. When I listen to a FOH guy telling me that he " mixes for his position" I have to laugh and simultaneously cry of course... because they are a) either selfish or b) incompetent.

The technology exists today that allows the mixer to check his mix from any point in the room ( as mentioned above) so he can deal with standing waves, nulls ect.
Click to expand...


I think you both misunderstood what my point was.
I'm not suggesting that the soundman couldn't tell what the venue sounded like in other locations besides FOH. I'm suggesting that FOH may have been positioned in a physical place where unavoidable acoustical anomalies related to the dimensions of the venue had a detrimental effect on the sound at that location, and so if you sat at FOH thinking "this is where the soundman sits so this should be where the best sound in the venue is" you would be sorely mistaken.

Yes you can check your mix from any point in a room these days. No you cannot overcome the laws of physics.
 
#55
Years back I saw Steely Dan in the late 1990's.....the whole mix was somewhat centered around the kick drum.

It did not "feel" quite the way I wanted a Steely Dan concert to "feel & sound" overall with the kick drum too loud imo.

Nothing against the drummer that played (Carlock I think) but his performance seemed rather pedestrian to me but I guess that was by design?

The first time I remember the kick drums being ungodly loud was April Wine around 1980.....a musician that was at that show with me said the drummer sounded like "Neanderthal Man" LOL!
 
#57
I don't recall the bass being buried on the late 90's live show....just that the kick drum was a bit up in the mix more than I wanted to hear.....nothing like a Motley Crue show mind you or the first time I saw Kiss with Eric Carr early 80's...LOUD drums in general!

Coming from a schooled classical background, I understand the arrangements with some of the SD material being difficult to play live for a variety of reasons....but some of it is not that difficult either, for good touring musicians.

I remember distinctly, the early material getting the best reaction from the audience though!
 

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