Steve Albini explains why he hates Steely Dan

[BassBrass]

I've seen the video Albini is talking and I had the exact thought. The guy (Fagan?) plays some blues then he says he inverted something, but then he's suddenly playing the groove of a nice Steely Dan song, very catchy, but it isn't the blues just because it shares some notes with some chords. So it seems like the blues talk is just lip service because the guy is actually so insecure he has to justify his lineage as a hipster. I'll take the Kerosine and enjoy old one take Rolland

 

[ardgedee]

Oh Steve…

Steve was an edge lord before being an edge lord was cool and has remained an edge lord now that being an edge lord is no longer the cool thing to do.

He makes SOME valid points from time to time, this case being no exception on some of his points, but it always feel like he’s trying to be a contrarian for the sake of being contrary. Great engineer and producer for the kind of music he likes to be sure.

Albini's publicly apologized for his edgelord behavior and discussed how he's changed over the years. It's a pretty good interview.

I dunno. Sniping at Steely Dan doesn't even rise to the level of edgelordness. It's pointlessly mean, but it's not exactly punching down. Fagin and Becker have done pretty well for themselves (and Fagin continues to do so) regardless of what Albini thinks about them, so it's not going to change anything.

hard to respect the opinion of a person who was in a band called r*peman

Both Albini and Sims have expressed regret over that project. Which doesn't undo what they did of course. At least they're trying to be better people rather than do it again.

 

[2F/2F]

All correct.

 

[littlebun]

Whether you agree with Albini or not, the guy is hilarious.

Steve Albini Explains Why He Hates Steely Dan

I read it and thought some of it was funny. Indulgence on 11 for sure with those records. But I get to listen to Keltner playing 'Josie', so I'm not going to slag them.

 

[J-Mags]

Steve clearly doesn't know enough music theory to get Steely Dan at any level. Say what you like but the Steely Dan guys put huge amounts of effort into their work.

Albini would say, and I know this because he said it in the article, that as much effort as they put in, they put in even greater amounts of other musicians' effort into their work.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree. I'm just entertained.

I kind of like Steely Dan, but I used to hate them, and I'll always feel some kinda kinship with a guy who says that he'll, "Always be the kind of punk who sh*ts on Steely Dan." I don't feel inferior for not being able to bring my Steely Dan hatred across life's finish line, but I don't feel superior either. I came around to a grudging enjoyment of them when I realized that they eased into the personae of dirty old men when they were about 27 years old and never deviated. Two Against Nature indeed!

Why does everyone think that it's not ok to have strong negative opinions about other people's art? Artists and musicians are people whose job is to fiddle while Rome burns. What makes us deserving of respect? We deserve money maybe, if people are using our product, but respect? Nope.

 

[Obese Chess]

Albini's publicly apologized for his edgelord behavior and discussed how he's changed over the years. It's a pretty good interview.

I dunno. Sniping at Steely Dan doesn't even rise to the level of edgelordness. It's pointlessly mean, but it's not exactly punching down. Fagin and Becker have done pretty well for themselves (and Fagin continues to do so) regardless of what Albini thinks about them, so it's not going to change anything.

Both Albini and Sims have expressed regret over that project. Which doesn't undo what they did of course. At least they're trying to be better people rather than do it again.

This may be a bit heavy for TB, and I'm quite a fan and admirer of Albini as an artist and as an example of growing out of being a contrarian edgelord whatever, but it is very weird to me that in that interview Albini mentions his friendship with Peter Sotos while downplaying exactly what kind of art Sotos makes. Like, technically it's true that he's "written extensively about abuse and murder and things of that nature," but that's a drastic understatement. Sotos' art, writings, and musical performances have for the past forty years almost exclusively been graphic depictions of, uh, shall we say, very bad things happening to very young people. Probably not the person I'd have brought up in this interview.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic. All that said - Albini's assessment is completely correct, except that the conclusion he reaches is wrong. Steely Dan kicks ass for all those reasons.

 

[higain617]

For anyone looking for a fun trip down memory lane, be sure and read up on Steve’s comments regarding Liz Phair in the early-to-mid 90s. If memory serves he later apologized for his statements. My point being, this isn’t the first time Steve has taken an artist to task when he doesn’t dig them, and this DEFINITELY isn’t his most brutal example of the behavior.

Ask his opinion on Courtney Love.

 

[frankie5string]

I've seen the video Albini is talking and I had the exact thought. The guy (Fagan?) plays some blues then he says he inverted something, but then he's suddenly playing the groove of a nice Steely Dan song, very catchy, but it isn't the blues just because it shares some notes with some chords. So it seems like the blues talk is just lip service because the guy is actually so insecure he has to justify his lineage as a hipster. I'll take the Kerosine and enjoy old one take Rolland

Academically speaking "Blues" is a very wide net. It not exclusively that 12 or 16 bar stuff that so many people call the blues. When I was in university, we spent a lot of time discussing the blues in my music classes, and none of it was what a lot of people call "the blues."

Like it or not, SD did in fact use blues changes, and they were definitely influenced by the broader "blues."

For what it's worth, Blues has been a hipster genre for decades.

 

[OnTheDownLow]

Sorry, Steely Dan is one of my all time favorite artists.

 

[ardgedee]

...it is very weird to me that in that interview Albini mentions his friendship with Peter Sotos while downplaying exactly what kind of art Sotos makes.

Yeah, that also stood out to me the first time I read the article. Still don't know what to make of it, but it feels like a derail from the point he was trying to make.

 

[sunbeast]

I have learned to love a bunch of the music they made for the sheer talent they (literally) employed to make it, but also agree with all of his points- particularly the difference between investment of time into honing something intentionally vs dumping endless hours of excessive takes of other people's work til they randomly hit something they like (probably what AI will soon be doing to music, but at least then it'll just be wasted computer processing energy rather than hours of time and energy invested by some of the best musicians around)

 

[Koshchei]

By that definition, Copernicus and Galileo were contrarians because they rejected the notion that the sun and the other planets revolved around the Earth.

I have a lot of admiration for people who defy groupthink to carve out a strong and individual viewpoint.

Albini is not everyone's cup of tea, but for people after that flavor, few have his clout.

In other news, I now know how Jeremy Renner got ingested by his own snow plow.

 

[pfschim]

shocking news ..... some guy on the internet who is kinda known by some people for doing something, has a kinda strongly worded, snarky opinion about something and gets some attention because of it ..... whaaaat?, how is that even possible ?

geez

 

[bassbrad]

Shall I explain te Steve Albini why he is wrong, so wrong.


And what I think his opinion & music means to me...

 

[J-Mags]

All I know is that if 80% of the people on this thread had to hear to Big Black or Shellac as often as every sentient being hears Steely Dan, you'd all be saying much meaner things than old Steve is.

You just don't like it because you disagree with him.

Plus I love a good hatchet job. I love Hendrix, but I love Chuck Eddy's Hendrix hatchet jobs too.

 

[TyBo]

Geez, he doesn't actually have much of substance to say. They recorded too many takes. Mmmkaaayy - it kinda worked , at the end of the day though.
He's just a guy shooting his mouth off. We all have our preferences. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

 

[JimmyM]

I agree with this in concept, but I’ve watched him do it for sport on multiple occasions. His “jazz dork electric piano” comment in the original tweets is a great example. SD’s tunes often have a deep rooting in the blues, and there are plenty of examples of electric piano in blues and blues-based music. He didn’t make that comment to be accurate, he did it to be antagonistic, contrarian, etc.

It’s not the electric piano…it’s what you do with it. I don’t know about you, but the closest thing to a jazz chord I’ve heard in the blues is a 9 chord.

 

[C Stone]

Eh never heard of him or his music. Is this some sort of Twitter spat? Never mind haha don’t care, I like Steely Dan.

 

[lermgalieu]

one could also say, "publicly disparage another talent to bolster your own fragile ego", the American way..

Except that’s really not what he’s doing, but hey, feel free to twist my words however you like.

 

[The Thinker]

That was freaking hilarious, and largely accurate. And I’m an unapologetic Dan fan/former hater. I literally laughed so hard my wife asked if I was ok (with legit concern).