• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

#39,802
askrere said:
If you hit the up arrow in the quote box it takes you to what he's responding to to give you context.

My TB tip to you.
Click to expand...

XWOuu8G.gif



So I spent last week on the in Connecticut and NYC for my school's graduation to see some friends and the class of 2016 graduate. While there I swung through some of the NYC music stores. 1st off, turns out Rudy's moved which confused the hell out of me. The sign was still there but the store front is now just some tourist shop/convenience crap-ola, and I had to go to an entire separate area of the city (SoHo?) to find them. Cool store, if not a bit pricey (ie very pricey). They had another EB-3 there from '62 that I decided to try out to see how mine stacked up. Their's had a 3-way toggle and I think the choke removed, sounded good, and similar to mine so that helped soothe some fears that some of my pickups might be a bit wonky. Also a coil tap, but I couldn't hear much difference. But for nearly $5000? Yeah, lol, no, mine's in nicer condition even with the broken headstock.

Also went to the Sam Ash in NYC to buy picks and such. Saw they had an Ampeg reissue V4B, figure I'd test it out. I think it was running through a newer portaflex cab. Don't mean to detract from those who like them, it's all personal opinion and what not, but I was not impressed. Dunno how they stack up to the old ones, never used them, but it reinforced some of my previously held thoughts on Ampegs. I started with things fairly flat, highs and mids slightly boosted, bass slightly rolled off. Pretty neutral sound, okay but neither really here nor there. So then I decide, eh, why not go with like how I run the Sunns, Treble and Mids cranked, bass rolled off, ultra-hi engaged. That was kinda unpleasant. Really sort of...brittle highs that didn't seem to have much power behind them, the mids were there but didn't really seem to punch through too much, and the bass was (well, obviously) not there. So I start messing with the mid-selector, switch it to hi or whatever and the mids became really honky but lacked any real girth. So I kept messing with it, brought the bass control back up, and that really did help the power/depth/girth of the whole sound. But at the same time, it really seemed to step on the mids a bit, and didn't add much to the highs. I just couldn't find a setting where I could get the clarity I wanted. I could get the oomph behind it, but to do that it meant muffling up the mids and highs a bit. So then I figured I'd test out the overdrive, crank the gain and drop the master. That actually may have been my least favorite part. The drive just seemed fizzy and shrill at times and much more like a fuzz pedal than an overdrive. Maybe I just don't know how to put in the correct settings. Does anyone have good suggestions for settings? Or maybe I'm just never really going to get along with Ampegs, I keep trying and then they just don't seem to deliver what I need. But they have to be the standard for a reason, right? Or maybe they're just the mid-ground enough as so that a large swath of people find them amenable?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pelham Bleu
#39,804
D.M.N. said:
XWOuu8G.gif



So I spent last week on the in Connecticut and NYC for my school's graduation to see some friends and the class of 2016 graduate. While there I swung through some of the NYC music stores. 1st off, turns out Rudy's moved which confused the hell out of me. The sign was still there but the store front is now just some tourist shop/convenience crap-ola, and I had to go to an entire separate area of the city (SoHo?) to find them. Cool store, if not a bit pricey (ie very pricey). They had another EB-3 there from '62 that I decided to try out to see how mine stacked up. Their's had a 3-way toggle and I think the choke removed, sounded good, and similar to mine so that helped soothe some fears that some of my pickups might be a bit wonky. Also a coil tap, but I couldn't hear much difference. But for nearly $5000? Yeah, lol, no, mine's in nicer condition even with the broken headstock.

Also went to the Sam Ash in NYC to buy picks and such. Saw they had an Ampeg reissue V4B, figure I'd test it out. I think it was running through a newer portaflex cab. Don't mean to detract from those who like them, it's all personal opinion and what not, but I was not impressed. Dunno how they stack up to the old ones, never used them, but it reinforced some of my previously held thoughts on Ampegs. I started with things fairly flat, highs and mids slightly boosted, bass slightly rolled off. Pretty neutral sound, okay but neither really here nor there. So then I decide, eh, why not go with like how I run the Sunns, Treble and Mids cranked, bass rolled off, ultra-hi engaged. That was kinda unpleasant. Really sort of...brittle highs that didn't seem to have much power behind them, the mids were there but didn't really seem to punch through too much, and the bass was (well, obviously) not there. So I start messing with the mid-selector, switch it to hi or whatever and the mids became really honky but lacked any real girth. So I kept messing with it, brought the bass control back up, and that really did help the power/depth/girth of the whole sound. But at the same time, it really seemed to step on the mids a bit, and didn't add much to the highs. I just couldn't find a setting where I could get the clarity I wanted. I could get the oomph behind it, but to do that it meant muffling up the mids and highs a bit. So then I figured I'd test out the overdrive, crank the gain and drop the master. That actually may have been my least favorite part. The drive just seemed fizzy and shrill at times and much more like a fuzz pedal than an overdrive. Maybe I just don't know how to put in the correct settings. Does anyone have good suggestions for settings? Or maybe I'm just never really going to get along with Ampegs, I keep trying and then they just don't seem to deliver what I need. But they have to be the standard for a reason, right? Or maybe they're just the mid-ground enough as so that a large swath of people find them amenable?
Click to expand...


the cab is more important than the amp. the true test is to try the amp with a cab you know or are familiar with. cabs affect the sound way more than any amp.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sartori
#39,805
No significant GAS here. I still buy stuff for my guitar rig here and there, but bass is solid. May get a reverb or delay some day, but in no hurry. Exceptions include some awesome used stuff that pops up here and there, but that's pretty well guitar only. Like the Sabbra Cadabra recently, which certainly appears to be the tone I've been searching for.
 
#39,807
D.M.N. said:
XWOuu8G.gif



So I spent last week on the in Connecticut and NYC for my school's graduation to see some friends and the class of 2016 graduate. While there I swung through some of the NYC music stores. 1st off, turns out Rudy's moved which confused the hell out of me. The sign was still there but the store front is now just some tourist shop/convenience crap-ola, and I had to go to an entire separate area of the city (SoHo?) to find them. Cool store, if not a bit pricey (ie very pricey). They had another EB-3 there from '62 that I decided to try out to see how mine stacked up. Their's had a 3-way toggle and I think the choke removed, sounded good, and similar to mine so that helped soothe some fears that some of my pickups might be a bit wonky. Also a coil tap, but I couldn't hear much difference. But for nearly $5000? Yeah, lol, no, mine's in nicer condition even with the broken headstock.

Also went to the Sam Ash in NYC to buy picks and such. Saw they had an Ampeg reissue V4B, figure I'd test it out. I think it was running through a newer portaflex cab. Don't mean to detract from those who like them, it's all personal opinion and what not, but I was not impressed. Dunno how they stack up to the old ones, never used them, but it reinforced some of my previously held thoughts on Ampegs. I started with things fairly flat, highs and mids slightly boosted, bass slightly rolled off. Pretty neutral sound, okay but neither really here nor there. So then I decide, eh, why not go with like how I run the Sunns, Treble and Mids cranked, bass rolled off, ultra-hi engaged. That was kinda unpleasant. Really sort of...brittle highs that didn't seem to have much power behind them, the mids were there but didn't really seem to punch through too much, and the bass was (well, obviously) not there. So I start messing with the mid-selector, switch it to hi or whatever and the mids became really honky but lacked any real girth. So I kept messing with it, brought the bass control back up, and that really did help the power/depth/girth of the whole sound. But at the same time, it really seemed to step on the mids a bit, and didn't add much to the highs. I just couldn't find a setting where I could get the clarity I wanted. I could get the oomph behind it, but to do that it meant muffling up the mids and highs a bit. So then I figured I'd test out the overdrive, crank the gain and drop the master. That actually may have been my least favorite part. The drive just seemed fizzy and shrill at times and much more like a fuzz pedal than an overdrive. Maybe I just don't know how to put in the correct settings. Does anyone have good suggestions for settings? Or maybe I'm just never really going to get along with Ampegs, I keep trying and then they just don't seem to deliver what I need. But they have to be the standard for a reason, right? Or maybe they're just the mid-ground enough as so that a large swath of people find them amenable?
Click to expand...

My magnavox V4B sounds different than the V4B RI. Some may argue that, but I could hear it. The RI was quieter and almost a bit cleaner before breakup but that was marginal. However the clean before breakup of the OG V4B was warmer and felt louder. The mids and highs can definitely get shrill fast. Huge lows though. I use the middle position on the mid rocker and have the bass at like 2 o clock, mids at 2 and treble at 1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: D.M.N.
#39,811
D.M.N. said:
XWOuu8G.gif



So I spent last week on the in Connecticut and NYC for my school's graduation to see some friends and the class of 2016 graduate. While there I swung through some of the NYC music stores. 1st off, turns out Rudy's moved which confused the hell out of me. The sign was still there but the store front is now just some tourist shop/convenience crap-ola, and I had to go to an entire separate area of the city (SoHo?) to find them. Cool store, if not a bit pricey (ie very pricey). They had another EB-3 there from '62 that I decided to try out to see how mine stacked up. Their's had a 3-way toggle and I think the choke removed, sounded good, and similar to mine so that helped soothe some fears that some of my pickups might be a bit wonky. Also a coil tap, but I couldn't hear much difference. But for nearly $5000? Yeah, lol, no, mine's in nicer condition even with the broken headstock.

Also went to the Sam Ash in NYC to buy picks and such. Saw they had an Ampeg reissue V4B, figure I'd test it out. I think it was running through a newer portaflex cab. Don't mean to detract from those who like them, it's all personal opinion and what not, but I was not impressed. Dunno how they stack up to the old ones, never used them, but it reinforced some of my previously held thoughts on Ampegs. I started with things fairly flat, highs and mids slightly boosted, bass slightly rolled off. Pretty neutral sound, okay but neither really here nor there. So then I decide, eh, why not go with like how I run the Sunns, Treble and Mids cranked, bass rolled off, ultra-hi engaged. That was kinda unpleasant. Really sort of...brittle highs that didn't seem to have much power behind them, the mids were there but didn't really seem to punch through too much, and the bass was (well, obviously) not there. So I start messing with the mid-selector, switch it to hi or whatever and the mids became really honky but lacked any real girth. So I kept messing with it, brought the bass control back up, and that really did help the power/depth/girth of the whole sound. But at the same time, it really seemed to step on the mids a bit, and didn't add much to the highs. I just couldn't find a setting where I could get the clarity I wanted. I could get the oomph behind it, but to do that it meant muffling up the mids and highs a bit. So then I figured I'd test out the overdrive, crank the gain and drop the master. That actually may have been my least favorite part. The drive just seemed fizzy and shrill at times and much more like a fuzz pedal than an overdrive. Maybe I just don't know how to put in the correct settings. Does anyone have good suggestions for settings? Or maybe I'm just never really going to get along with Ampegs, I keep trying and then they just don't seem to deliver what I need. But they have to be the standard for a reason, right? Or maybe they're just the mid-ground enough as so that a large swath of people find them amenable?
Click to expand...

Well, most people hate the ultra hi, so that's not a surprise that it sounds shrill with it engaged. I guess I don't understand why you expected it to sound full with the bass rolled off. Or that adding bass didn't effect the treble - it's not supposed to. I get that those settings sound good on your sunns, but this is an entirely different preamp, tone stack, power amp, different everything really.

I'll second the notion that the cab makes a huge, huge difference. Also playing an Ampeg tube amp at polite music store volume, you're only getting a small amount of what it can really do.

Not to pile on or tell you that your preferences are wrong, because they're not - I was just a bit confused by some things in your post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sartori
#39,813
No, I'm very much aware they're entirely different from the Sunns, that was just a starting point, I ran the controls in many different settings. Possibly part of this is that it's an active Bandaxall tone stack, if I remember correctly, which is why the bass didn't affect the rest of the spectrum, which is something I'm just not used to. And I suppose I expect it to sound full with the bass off just because of experience with other amps, which I guess isn't entirely fair. But Hiwatts and Sunns still retain a fullness even with the bass rolled way down, and even SVTs seem to do it better, where as the V4 seemed a bit gutless unless the bass was set to 5ish (which I believe is flat on a Bandaxall). I also had the amp set to 5 on gain and 5 on master, but do they really need to be set even higher to open up?

I guess I just don't get along with Ampegs. I try to go into testing them without any pretense or ideas, and I've tried to like them for years, but I just feel like they lack something compared to various other amp brands. I'd also heard such good things about the V4 I probably had pretty high expectations. I was excited to play one.

Actually, looking through videos, the settings I put in were pretty similar to the ones he uses for the gain/grind demonstrations here, though with the master rolled back, and it sounds pretty similar to what I was getting. Some might love it, I guess the main take away is different strokes, I don't mean to insult anyones love of the V4B RI.
 
#39,815
D.M.N. said:
XWOuu8G.gif



So I spent last week on the in Connecticut and NYC for my school's graduation to see some friends and the class of 2016 graduate. While there I swung through some of the NYC music stores. 1st off, turns out Rudy's moved which confused the hell out of me. The sign was still there but the store front is now just some tourist shop/convenience crap-ola, and I had to go to an entire separate area of the city (SoHo?) to find them. Cool store, if not a bit pricey (ie very pricey). They had another EB-3 there from '62 that I decided to try out to see how mine stacked up. Their's had a 3-way toggle and I think the choke removed, sounded good, and similar to mine so that helped soothe some fears that some of my pickups might be a bit wonky. Also a coil tap, but I couldn't hear much difference. But for nearly $5000? Yeah, lol, no, mine's in nicer condition even with the broken headstock.

Also went to the Sam Ash in NYC to buy picks and such. Saw they had an Ampeg reissue V4B, figure I'd test it out. I think it was running through a newer portaflex cab. Don't mean to detract from those who like them, it's all personal opinion and what not, but I was not impressed. Dunno how they stack up to the old ones, never used them, but it reinforced some of my previously held thoughts on Ampegs. I started with things fairly flat, highs and mids slightly boosted, bass slightly rolled off. Pretty neutral sound, okay but neither really here nor there. So then I decide, eh, why not go with like how I run the Sunns, Treble and Mids cranked, bass rolled off, ultra-hi engaged. That was kinda unpleasant. Really sort of...brittle highs that didn't seem to have much power behind them, the mids were there but didn't really seem to punch through too much, and the bass was (well, obviously) not there. So I start messing with the mid-selector, switch it to hi or whatever and the mids became really honky but lacked any real girth. So I kept messing with it, brought the bass control back up, and that really did help the power/depth/girth of the whole sound. But at the same time, it really seemed to step on the mids a bit, and didn't add much to the highs. I just couldn't find a setting where I could get the clarity I wanted. I could get the oomph behind it, but to do that it meant muffling up the mids and highs a bit. So then I figured I'd test out the overdrive, crank the gain and drop the master. That actually may have been my least favorite part. The drive just seemed fizzy and shrill at times and much more like a fuzz pedal than an overdrive. Maybe I just don't know how to put in the correct settings. Does anyone have good suggestions for settings? Or maybe I'm just never really going to get along with Ampegs, I keep trying and then they just don't seem to deliver what I need. But they have to be the standard for a reason, right? Or maybe they're just the mid-ground enough as so that a large swath of people find them amenable?
Click to expand...
Tim and Eric sucks. And his post doesn't appear to be a quotation to me.

Anyway, on to the V4B.

I would expect using the same settings as on a 2000S to sound completely awful. The preamp/EQ sections they use have almost nothing in common. The Sunn is the Fender type tone stack. Low and high are boost only, mids are cut only, and all the frequency bands affect each other a lot. The V4B is a classic Baxandall tone stack. "Flat" is about noon (actually very close to it on a V4B), and the controls don't interact with each other really. That's why bringing up the lows did nothing to the highs. It's not supposed to. It could get fairly weird with the mids if you had the mid frequency selector on the lowest setting. Also don't use the ultra-low or ultra-hi.

As for the shrillness of the overdrive... I think those Portaflex cabs have tweeters. And the cab really matters a lot. A lot of the authoritative low end and clarity you're used to likely comes from the 2000S cab. I found that switching between a Mesa D-180 and a GK 800RB, I still sounded mostly the same if I used the 2000S cab.

When I tested out a V4B, it was through an Ampeg either 610 or 810. May have been the 810. The settings I had were pretty much lows bumped just slightly up, highs rolled back slightly, and the mids cranked up all the way, frequency selector set in the middle position, which IIRC is around 800hz. Gain dimed. Glorious tone. I think the newer portaflex cabs are probably not great for that amp.

askrere said:
So anyone else using a voodoo labs or other block power unit? If so how do you mount it to your pedal board? Zip ties or Velcro? Id be hanging mine under the board.
Click to expand...
I don't mount it. It's just sitting on top so I can get a bit of extra cord length if I need it.

bassboysam said:
the cab is more important than the amp. the true test is to try the amp with a cab you know or are familiar with. cabs affect the sound way more than any amp.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Playing my Mesa through a different cab sounds way more different to me than playing a different amp through my Sunn 2x15.
 
#39,816
D.M.N. said:
No, I'm very much aware they're entirely different from the Sunns, that was just a starting point, I ran the controls in many different settings. Possibly part of this is that it's an active Bandaxall tone stack, if I remember correctly, which is why the bass didn't affect the rest of the spectrum, which is something I'm just not used to. And I suppose I expect it to sound full with the bass off just because of experience with other amps, which I guess isn't entirely fair. But Hiwatts and Sunns still retain a fullness even with the bass rolled way down, and even SVTs seem to do it better, where as the V4 seemed a bit gutless unless the bass was set to 5ish (which I believe is flat on a Bandaxall). I also had the amp set to 5 on gain and 5 on master, but do they really need to be set even higher to open up?

I guess I just don't get along with Ampegs. I try to go into testing them without any pretense or ideas, and I've tried to like them for years, but I just feel like they lack something compared to various other amp brands. I'd also heard such good things about the V4 I probably had pretty high expectations. I was excited to play one.

Actually, looking through videos, the settings I put in were pretty similar to the ones he uses for the gain/grind demonstrations here, though with the master rolled back, and it sounds pretty similar to what I was getting. Some might love it, I guess the main take away is different strokes, I don't mean to insult anyones love of the V4B RI.
Click to expand...


Bass rolled off on a fender tone stack is still pretty much flat. Anything left of noon on a bax tone stack is a cut, so turning the knob off completely is a severe low end cut.

Again, not trying to be a dick.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sartori
#39,817
The_Janitor said:
Bass rolled off on a fender tone stack is still pretty much flat. Anything left of noon on a bax tone stack is a cut, so turning the knob off completely is a severe low end cut.

Again, not trying to be a dick.
Click to expand...
Indeed. While the Bax allows a bit more specific control of frequencies, it's also way easier to get an actually bad sound on one than on a Fender type EQ.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back