Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

[socialleper]

Doom bands pretend they are above the cockwaving of metal but it's just another form of cockwaving.

Why would you wave a rooster at someone?

I'm pickup up what you are putting down.

 

[bassboysam]

What I've noticed is that some pickups seem to "like" lower tunings more than others. I've had some 4 string basses just refuse to deal with the lower freqs when taken down past D. I've also noticed that sometimes the articulation can go south really quick after D on a 4.
You play a little quicker than some drone or doom bands, and still managed a fair amount of articulation. What is you tuning, string, action arrangement?

I use 4 different turnings:

1. 1/2 step down
2. 1/2 step down with lowest string drop to C#
3. 1 1/2 step down (C#) standard
4. C# standard with lowest string drop to B

the 1/2 step down basses are strung with 100-45 gauge strings, the C# basses are strung with 110-50 gauge basses.

I like very low action and play with a light touch.

 

[deathness]

Well...that's a bit of an overstatement. "Best" is, of course, relative. My personal preference for lower tunings is a 35" scale, which is unfortunately rare in a 4 string config, and impossible to find on retro styled instruments.

Yeah, it is an overstatement. Guilty as charged. I just can't vibe with 5s. Every bass I've ever loved the sound has been a 4. I'm a total sucker for great vintage cuz deep in my heart I feel "they don't make 'em like they used to" even though I know rationally that can't be true, that there are great instruments still being made. Still can't give me anything like what my Guild gives me.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if this was 100% accurate players in this genre wouldn't spend thousands on vintage amps, or boutique stuff like Emperor, Verellen, Hovercraft, vintage Muff clones, vintage guitars\basses, etc. They also wouldn't have two or three stacks of amps. More with less would be a half stack for guitarists, and a single 115 for bass players. Jussayin.

I said: "in the DNA of doom" not "how the doom scene works these days." There's a difference. I got nothing against people chasing their sound and dropping dollars on gear. I tend to think the amp/effect thing is more an engineering issue, less a composition issue. Either way, the beginnings of doom are in simple riffs and basic equipment pushed to extremes.

 

[cornfarmer]

That's actually an 80's Czechoslovakian Jolana Jantar bass. Back in the day they were pretty highly regarded for being generally of a way better quality that your run of the mill Soviet Bloc instruments.

Yeah, I knew it was Czech...but the seller was located in Belarus, sorry I didn't make the distinction.

It is definitely a good instrument.

 

[SonnyBassPlayer]

I saw Russian Circles live last night. probably one of the best concerts of my life. I simply got out of the club astonished.
I saw Brian Cook play bass while playing a keyboard with his damn left hand pinkie!!!
And the sounds,the stage atmosphere (lights/fog) the damn bass distorionnnn omg
Here's a gift

Could anyone tell me which pedal is besides the fuzzrocious pedal that is besides the rusty box? as in, looking at the pic, two slots right of the rusty box.

 

[socialleper]

the 1/2 step down basses are strung with 100-45 gauge strings, the C# basses are strung with 110-50 gauge basses.

I'm a bit of a gear nerd too.
Flats, round? Nicke, steel? Round core,hex core? Whatever is in stock.

I really should learn to play with a lighter touch. Cliff and Geezer were my earliest influences and they beat the daylights out of their basses. Old habits are hard to break.

 

[bassboysam]

I'm a bit of a gear nerd too.
Flats, round? Nicke, steel? Round core,hex core? Whatever is in stock.

I really should learn to play with a lighter touch. Cliff and Geezer were my earliest influences and they beat the daylights out of their basses. Old habits are hard to break.

yeah it took a while for me to adjust but i paid for some lessons about 8 years ago and learned to play lightly, fret with the tips of my fingers instead of the pads and most importantly put very little pressure on the back of the neck with my thumb.

on my Ps and Rics i use SS strings with hex cores. my Js have nickel plated with hex cores. i have a P with flats tuned to standard but i don't use that with the band. it's for home practice and playing along to random songs on the TV or the radio. nothing is off limits even advertising jingles

 

[kleinenenten]

Always hated down tuning a 4. Must be the odd one out here. I prefer a tighter feel, and the added notes are better for me if I were to learn something in standard. But whatever. If it works for you, rock it!

 

[Korladis]

I got a question for all you guys\gals:
I little while ago I did a poll on TB asking if people preferred 5 string basses or a 4 string basses tuned BEAD. The overwhelming number of TB players said they preferred 5s. Now, I know we wizard rock\metal players are a separate breed, and I find it very rare to see Doom\stoner\sludge\etc players using 5 stringers despite lots of low tuning.
Re-slotting a nut for bigger strings, throwing away the unused strings, adjusting the neck, etc are a big pain in the backside. So why do bassists in these genres play down tuned 4s so much more often?

Because for most of what we do, the higher string isn't necessary.

I play my 4 strings in my doom bands the way I play my 4 string in the folk/rock band, not really like a 5 string. For me the extra high string would just be in the way, making the neck wider.

In neither Catapult nor Dustern do I really even play that high up on the D string (my basses are tuned BEAD).

I know that on TB Rickenbackers are mainly thought of for proggy parts that make use of the whole neck, but I use mine for low down grind, either in EADG or BEAD.

As for adjusting the neck, the adjustment from EADG to BEAD is no more really than going to a lighter tension set of strings in the same tuning (I use 130, 100, 80, 60 for BEAD). I don't consider filing the nut to be a pain, either, as the nut is almost as disposable as the strings, in my eyes.

So why put up with a wider neck and less choice in models (there are simply fewer 5-string models of bass than 4-string) for a string I'm not even going to use?

Well...that's a bit of an overstatement. "Best" is, of course, relative. My personal preference for lower tunings is a 35" scale, which is unfortunately rare in a 4 string config, and impossible to find on retro styled instruments.

I see a lot of posts on TB chasing after a "good low B string" on a 5.

This always confuses me, because I have three basses tuned BEAD, and all I did was find the proper size string (130... the same that goes in D'Addario EXL175 sets) and get a setup for each bass, same as I would do if changing string gauge/tension in the same tuning, and voila, they all have good sounding low B strings. And it's not like all of them are pricy, either.

The best sounding of them, on all the strings, is my Rickenbacker 4003S, which is a wonderful instrument to play. But the other two sound good, too. One is Corey's old Epiphone T-bird, which I modded a bit, and the other is my first bass, a cheap Peavey that started life as a P-bass copy.

None are more than 34" scale, and the best sounding is 33.25"

I don't know why it is that my 4-strings have nice sounding low B strings when apparently finding a 5-string one with a good low B is difficult, according to Talkbass, but this seems to be the case.

Also I think visually/stylistically we're all kinda trying to be Geezer/Lemmy/Cisneros.

 

[Korladis]

Was watching a Neurosis video, and I just noticed that Scott Kelly has the tone knobs removed from his old Les Paul.

 

[Maureen M]

I got a question for all you guys\gals:
I little while ago I did a poll on TB asking if people preferred 5 string basses or a 4 string basses tuned BEAD. The overwhelming number of TB players said they preferred 5s. Now, I know we wizard rock\metal players are a separate breed, and I find it very rare to see Doom\stoner\sludge\etc players using 5 stringers despite lots of low tuning.
Re-slotting a nut for bigger strings, throwing away the unused strings, adjusting the neck, etc are a big pain in the backside. So why do bassists in these genres play down tuned 4s so much more often?

I play a 4 string in drop C but not entirely willingly.
The main reason is because my guitarist writes in drop C and there's a good amount of low C pedaling.
I have experimented with playing a 5 string in standard tuning but I can't get all the position shifts as clean as I would like. Plus I lose the chance to let an open C ring out, boo!
I have thought about tuning the low B up a half step but that seems too weird.

So I play the 4 string, even though I'm not a fan of the relatively low tension. I have a heavy right hand to start with so I have worked on lightening up so I'm not hitting the string sharp. Plus I had to adjust my attack in general - I'm used to a lot more push back from the strings. Drop C was a whole new world to me.

 

[CL400Peavey]

a 4 tuned down sounds different to me than a 5 string. I'm willing to bet a lot of the down tuned sounds/tones that have been on our favorite recordings were also recorded using standard gauge strings, maybe 110 max. Part of the tone is the floppier strings. they just add a different flavour, especially when pushing some tubes.

I'm the odd ball here, I play a multi scale 37" 5 string tuned BEADG.

 

[PokeyPrasch]

2 basses I'm playing currently.

Gbass 35" EADG
Warlock BEAD

I've noticed that I've been getting a lot pickier about my setup so I'm not that interested in messing around with the nut too much.

 

[socialleper]

I play a 4 string in drop C but not entirely willingly.
The main reason is because my guitarist writes in drop C and there's a good amount of low C pedaling.
I have experimented with playing a 5 string in standard tuning but I can't get all the position shifts as clean as I would like. Plus I lose the chance to let an open C ring out, boo!
I have thought about tuning the low B up a half step but that seems too weird.

So I play the 4 string, even though I'm not a fan of the relatively low tension. I have a heavy right hand to start with so I have worked on lightening up so I'm not hitting the string sharp. Plus I had to adjust my attack in general - I'm used to a lot more push back from the strings. Drop C was a whole new world to me.

In a live set I have one bass tuned CGCF and one tuned BEAD (or a 5 string.) Getting the strings right for the drop C is a chore. I have to custom order sets, usually a .120 and a .110 set without the E. The balance is hard. My BEAD is a LTD TA-600 which doesn't match the tone of my drop C P basses. The 5 is a Pedulla Rapture that doesn't match the tone right either. I'm having trouble finding the perfect bass for the B tuning. That's why I asked.

 

[Korladis]

I play a 4 string in drop C but not entirely willingly.
The main reason is because my guitarist writes in drop C and there's a good amount of low C pedaling.
I have experimented with playing a 5 string in standard tuning but I can't get all the position shifts as clean as I would like. Plus I lose the chance to let an open C ring out, boo!
I have thought about tuning the low B up a half step but that seems too weird.

So I play the 4 string, even though I'm not a fan of the relatively low tension. I have a heavy right hand to start with so I have worked on lightening up so I'm not hitting the string sharp. Plus I had to adjust my attack in general - I'm used to a lot more push back from the strings. Drop C was a whole new world to me.

Why not C standard?

 

[CL400Peavey]

Well before the doom thing became trendy prices were not as high as they are now on vintage gear and the original bands used vintage gear because it was cheaper and not trendy in the early 90s. There's definitely a lot of emphasis put on gear though, more so than other metal genres i think and most of it is just an image thing more than a sound thing. Doom bands pretend they are above the cockwaving of metal but it's just another form of cockwaving. I personally have fun trying new stuff whether vintage or not. I'm a gear head more than a musician I think but if I had to I could easily get by with a "lesser" rig.

Here is another place I am an odd ball. Only vintage gear that I have is some of the tubes in my amps.

What I've noticed is that some pickups seem to "like" lower tunings more than others. I've had some 4 string basses just refuse to deal with the lower freqs when taken down past D. I've also noticed that sometimes the articulation can go south really quick after D on a 4.
You play a little quicker than some drone or doom bands, and still managed a fair amount of articulation. What is you tuning, string, action arrangement?

Proper strings and set up are a bigger deal than most believe they are for articulation. Tension and gauge need to be adjusted for tuning and scale length, and then an intonation set up needs to be properly done. I think a lot of people in the doom genre just grab the heaviest 5 string set they can find, toss the G, and put it on their bass with little attention to any of the set up. It all effects the way the bass plays, and more importantly sounds.

 

[bassboysam]

@CL400Peavey did you ever think that maybe you're just not that doomy?


i think the only thing really stoner/doom about my band is the long instrumental passages. there are some doomy riffs here and there but overall i think it's more a heavy mood and tones/textures than heavy music if you know what i mean.

 

[dcarwin]

Playing in C standard on a Ric. I've tried a few different 5-string sets, but I stopped trying new stuff after I found the Dunlop Heavy Core (115) Nickel 4-string set. The tension and gauges are natural for me, and I can switch easily between the C-tuned bass and a bass in standard tuning with the 106 string set I use on those. I'm sure it won't work for everyone but I'm happy.

 

[CL400Peavey]

@CL400Peavey did you ever think that maybe you're just not that doomy?


i think the only thing really stoner/doom about my band is the long instrumental passages. there are some doomy riffs here and there but overall i think it's more a heavy mood and tones/textures than heavy music if you know what i mean.

Eh, maybe. I like loud, heavy, and riffy music, maybe more of heavy psych than doom. I also dont care how I get there.

 

[Maureen M]

Why not C standard?

C standard on a 4 string? Maybe with a longer scale bass I would like it. But I play Fenders for this particular band and I don't think I would like to have all the strings be floppy. And yeah, I have heavier strings, proper setup etc.
But i came from an extreme metal background and this was a total switch for me...different scale length, fewer frets, different tuning, heavier strings that felt like spaghetti at first lol.
Definitely a learning experience.