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Stoner/Doom Bassists Thread, Part 90: Maxed Out

#62,181
LOTS more fuzz today, and the Pickle is on one board and the Pharaoh is on the other. I ended up massively changing the settings on the Pharaoh Supreme, more than I thought I ever would. Lowered both pre and fuzz knobs, as very much increased the tone knob. I'm amazed at how simple changes really affect this thing, even years after having bought it. Guess there's a reason I always come back to it! Plenty of girth and gain, and even a bit more bite. Here are my current settings:

MOSFET clipping
Tone: 1:30 (Which blows my mind! It was at minimum...)
Hi: Max
Fuzz: Noon
Pre: 1:30

Sounds great with all of my basses. Still my be-all, end-all fuzz, apparently!
 
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#62,183
I spent nearly an hour trying to get my old janky recording set up working again this morning. No luck. Anybody know a decent, cheap, way to record simple tracks? I'm not looking for perfection, but I was I hoping to maybe A/B some pedals since I always talk about them, but never have any way to actually have people listen to the differences. This rig would have been passable, but certainly not high end. We're talking a 15 year old interface and old DOD Grey Box Cabsim, so passable may be generous by today's standards.
 
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#62,184
kleinenenten said:
I spent nearly an hour trying to get my old janky recording set up working again this morning. No luck. Anybody know a decent, cheap, way to record simple tracks? I'm not looking for perfection, but I was I hoping to maybe A/B some pedals since I always talk about them, but never have any way to actually have people listen to the differences. This rig would have been passable, but certainly not high end. We're talking a 15 year old interface and old DOD Grey Box Cabsim, so passable may be generous by today's standards.
Click to expand...
How cheap do you need? The entry level Focusrite, UA and Audient offerings are all more than enough for what you want to do. There are a bunch of cheap used offerings on MF, but you'll have to do some research. As far as cab sims, just find any IR loader and put in your DAW (you are using a DAW, right?), then load up any IR your heart desires.
 
#62,185
davedamage said:
How cheap do you need? The entry level Focusrite, UA and Audient offerings are all more than enough for what you want to do. There are a bunch of cheap used offerings on MF, but you'll have to do some research. As far as cab sims, just find any IR loader and put in your DAW (you are using a DAW, right?), then load up any IR your heart desires.
Click to expand...
Yes, I actually have an old FocusRite. It worked last time I ran it! Of course, that was about 4 years ago... I think it may be the old computer I was trying moreso than the external hardware. Maybe I'll see if I can load a program on my current laptop. I'll be honest, I've never messed with anything much. DAW = Digital Audio Workspace, right? And I have NO experience with IRs or IR loaders. Not even sure what IR means...

My absolutely ideal situation is to just put a pedal at the end of my chain that can be my "amp" and includes my GK head and cab, and then just plug into my interface and record. I realize that's highly unlikely, but that's the idea. Are there any good free recording programs?

Thanks for the help!
 
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#62,186
kleinenenten said:
My absolutely ideal situation is to just put a pedal at the end of my chain that can be my "amp" and includes my GK head and cab, and then just plug into my interface and record. I realize that's highly unlikely, but that's the idea. Are there any good free recording programs?
Click to expand...
Well, I pretty much do that with my JC40 amp and/or a Behringer BDI 21 into a DigiTech CabDryVR. As long as you have a direct out, your pedal/amp/whatever should be able to feed a CabDryVR or any other pedal based cab sim. The CabDryVR is discontinued as far as I can tell, but it's available for $65 and up on Reverb. It's fairly cool, you can run two different cab sims at once if you have two inputs, but only two bass cabs or guitar cabs no mix and match.

As far as free DAWs go, I'm on Linux, and Ardour is free on it. It's not the most advanced DAW, but it works very well. If you're using Windows or Mac, you can get a license for as little as $1/month. If you're clever, and know how to build a big software project, you can download the source and build it (or go crazy and re-write parts of it) for free. Even though it's free on Linux (with a nag screen when you export to a WAV), I use it often enough that I pay for a $4/month subscription.


And no-one asked, but my favorite way to record bass these days is an Ampeg PF-20T's direct out into the board. Not super cheap, but still not crazy expensive.
 
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#62,187
scabpicker said:
Well, I pretty much do that with my JC40 amp and/or a Behringer BDI 21 into a DigiTech CabDryVR. As long as you have a direct out, your pedal/amp/whatever should be able to feed a CabDryVR or any other pedal based cab sim. The CabDryVR is discontinued as far as I can tell, but it's available for $65 and up on Reverb. It's fairly cool, you can run two different cab sims at once if you have two inputs, but only two bass cabs or guitar cabs no mix and match.

As far as free DAWs go, I'm on Linux, and Ardour is free on it. It's not the most advanced DAW, but it works very well. If you're using Windows or Mac, you can get a license for as little as $1/month. If you're clever, and know how to build a big software project, you can download the source and build it (or go crazy and re-write parts of it) for free. Even though it's free on Linux (with a nag screen when you export to a WAV), I use it often enough that I pay for a $4/month subscription.


And no-one asked, but my favorite way to record bass these days is an Ampeg PF-20T's direct out into the board. Not super cheap, but still not crazy expensive.
Click to expand...
I think I figured out a way to do it. Step #1 - use the "new" computer (only 10ish years old?) and not the "old" computer (about 15 years old). Step #2 - use less hardware intensive software. I downloaded the current version of Audacity for my "new" laptop, and was up and running in about 20 minutes, including creating a click track. The only downside so far is I don't think I can record two different tracks simultaneously, but with my limited understanding that it seems that's probably a computer hardware issue, and nothing I have any direct control over at the moment. Regardless, I can record clips, then record other stuff over it. So that could be fun in the future! It seems the biggest hurdle may have been getting my ancient computer to run the software that it used to - for some reason, it's not running it as well. Regardless, I'm going to try to run Audacity on it, as it's my "music laptop" that I've kept for that sole purpose. May as well get to using it!

Hopefully tomorrow I'll have a simple recording of my bass fuzzes to share. I'm trying to load up Audacity on the old computer for a proof of concept right now before I head to bed. Wish me luck!
 
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#62,188
Cross-post for a few of my groups:

Alright, I seem to have figured everything out to record! Here's my sample, as well as some pics of the settings on my amp and pedals. It's not exactly a "modern" setup, but it works! If you're unfamiliar with the pedals, from L to R we have: Pharaoh Supreme, Swollen Pickle, CMC Civil War, CMC Bubble Font, and CMC Tall Font. That is also the order I go through the pedals in the demo, beginning with an (obvious) clean tone.

Some things to note:

  1. I have the pedals set up L to R in order of "scoop" - left is least scooped and right is most scooped. Coincidentally, this also is a fair assessment of how aggressive/gainy they are in the mix, however both of these statements are also heavily dependent on settings, especially with the Pharaoh and Pickle. The Pharaoh and Pickle sound incredibly gainy out of the mix, but slot well.
  2. They are also set up in order of personal preference - I prefer the ones on the left, though that has no real bearing except that the Pharaoh is the left most pedal in my usual assortment and I just filled in from there.
  3. The (basic) routing is as follows (excepting noise gates, tuners, and pedals in the chain that are not being used, etc.): Ibanez SR505 (with Bart NTMB preamp) with a slight mid and bass boost) -> DOD Milkbox Compressor (add a slight bit of highs and compression) -> Fuzz Pedals -> GK 700RB-II preamp section -> FX Loop -> DOD 285 Gray Box Cabinet Simulator (set to "412" cab) -> old FocusRite Interface -> computer
  4. Overall, this recording is fairly accurate, though it seems to omit some of the extreme highs and lows of running this all through my actual rig. Not sure if that's normal or not (or if it's my speakers on my computer/PA or whatever), as I've certainly never recorded much of anything, and even then, it's been the better part of a decade...
  5. I tried to match volume as best I could, but at the same time, these are all different pedals with varying tones and I just got close enough. Tough to do that outside of a mix where I can tell if it's working or not.

Other random things include how I can definitely see some huge differences between them all now that they're all together. The CMCs (especially the Bubble and Tall Font), which I had initially thought to be much gainier than my Pharaoh, are really not now that I've got new Pharaoh tones. They sit behind the mix a bit more (though are still very much audible) and have "pillowy" bass. The Civil War seems to be the halfway point between all of these Muffs in terms of gain, scoop, and lows present. It's really making me reassess that pedal for bass usage!

I'm excited to be able to record stuff (relatively) easily now! I even figured out how to record two tracks simultaneously, so if I ever jam, we can record together. Should be really fun, even if I just record stuff solo and play over my own ideas. Maybe I'll try and get a basic song together this summer. I've even got my rig set up so that I can record, have the PA going, listen through headphones, and the amps playing all simultaneously.

If anybody has any simple tips or tricks, I'm all ears, though I'd remind you I'm working on an extremely limited budget both in time and money... So free and simple software etc. is appreciated! Thanks for listening, all! P1010912.JPGP1010913.JPGP1010914.JPGP1010915.JPGP1010916.JPGP1010917.JPGP1010918.JPG
 
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#62,189
Well, looks like I can't post audio directly to TB? Didn't know that, and it seems a bit odd considering this is forum solely devoted to a specific craft of audio, but what do I know? Maybe it's a bug with the recent update?

Anyway, THIS LINK should work. It's just a link to the file on my Google drive. Enjoy, all! (And please, constructive criticism of the recording/process is welcome. I realize it's not a perfect recording by any stretch, and I was going more for proof of concept than flawless technique!)
 
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#62,190
scabpicker said:
Well, I pretty much do that with my JC40 amp and/or a Behringer BDI 21 into a DigiTech CabDryVR. As long as you have a direct out, your pedal/amp/whatever should be able to feed a CabDryVR or any other pedal based cab sim. The CabDryVR is discontinued as far as I can tell, but it's available for $65 and up on Reverb. It's fairly cool, you can run two different cab sims at once if you have two inputs, but only two bass cabs or guitar cabs no mix and match.

As far as free DAWs go, I'm on Linux, and Ardour is free on it. It's not the most advanced DAW, but it works very well. If you're using Windows or Mac, you can get a license for as little as $1/month. If you're clever, and know how to build a big software project, you can download the source and build it (or go crazy and re-write parts of it) for free. Even though it's free on Linux (with a nag screen when you export to a WAV), I use it often enough that I pay for a $4/month subscription.


And no-one asked, but my favorite way to record bass these days is an Ampeg PF-20T's direct out into the board. Not super cheap, but still not crazy expensive.
Click to expand...
Ok, the CabDryVR sounds decent, but if I can't record guitar/bass simultaneously, it's a bit limited for what I want to do. Thankfully, I CAN do that with my current setup (involving numerous DI/Cabsims, one per instrument). However, I'm sure the CabDryVR's cabs are likely better than my current 30ish year old devices, and they look affordable. Here are the questions - can the CabDryVR send a "dry" signal to my amp at the same time as the DI'ed/Sim'ed signal to the PA or recording interface? In my current setup, I can send the original signal through my rig, and the DI signal to the interface, and an entire band can hear everything (i.e. we get audio from the cabs, the PA system, a headphone amp, and to the recording interface). If it can't do that, I'm not sure it can replace what I already have effectively. But if it can, I'm very interested in newer cabsims, and that one looks pretty simple!

EDIT: A quick search tells me that I think I can do that, but I'm terrible with terminology. It seems like I could run the "dry" cab from Channel B to my amp, and then run my preferred cab settings from Channel A to my PA/interface. Is that accurate? And one more question - any idea if it can get close to a GK Neo410 tone? That would be the ultimate goal, as I run everything through my GK amp, but the DI is after the preamp and before the power amp (aka in the FX loop). Thank you!
 
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#62,191
kleinenenten said:
EDIT: A quick search tells me that I think I can do that, but I'm terrible with terminology. It seems like I could run the "dry" cab from Channel B to my amp, and then run my preferred cab settings from Channel A to my PA/interface. Is that accurate?
Click to expand...
Well, you can do that, but it requires the signal to be split between the A and B channels before the pedal, since it won't send the signal from channel A into channel B. At home, I use my tuner pedal to split the signal between the two most of the time. That kind of reduces the CabDryVr to an expensive cable for that channel in that situation, though. Although, I think you can still use the volume control to adjust the signal strength being sent over that side even when it's not simulating a cab.

kleinenenten said:
And one more question - any idea if it can get close to a GK Neo410 tone? That would be the ultimate goal, as I run everything through my GK amp, but the DI is after the preamp and before the power amp (aka in the FX loop). Thank you!
Click to expand...
That I do not know. I have a GK Neo410 in the house, but I did something to it that creates nasty sounds ages ago (probably a blown speaker, but I haven't tracked it down and replaced it), so I've never tried to match it with the cab sim.
 
#62,192
scabpicker said:
Well, you can do that, but it requires the signal to be split between the A and B channels before the pedal, since it won't send the signal from channel A into channel B. At home, I use my tuner pedal to split the signal between the two most of the time. That kind of reduces the CabDryVr to an expensive cable for that channel in that situation, though. Although, I think you can still use the volume control to adjust the signal strength being sent over that side even when it's not simulating a cab.


That I do not know. I have a GK Neo410 in the house, but I did something to it that creates nasty sounds ages ago (probably a blown speaker, but I haven't tracked it down and replaced it), so I've never tried to match it with the cab sim.
Click to expand...
Dang. And so close both accounts! So basically I can run two separate signal chains into the CabDryVR - one chain for A and another for B (as long as they're both exclusively guitar or exclusively bass cabs being emulated? I could use my old DOD 240 Resistance mixer... but adding another 30+ year old device into the chain is probably not the best solution. Guess I'll just keep the CabDryVR in mind if I see a deal I can't pass up. There was a reason I kept on the lookout for old DOD 285 - it sends the DI'd/Cabsim'd signal to the PA/Interface, and sends the unaffected signal down the chain. It works beautifully for my weird niche setup to send a cabsim to a PA and headphone amp without having to buy a dedicated amp/cabsim pedal and using the rest of my already hodgepodge of gear I've collected.
 
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#62,195
Kaa said:
Yeah, the thread has been quiet.
Click to expand...
Yeah, been fairly busy on my end, nothing real wild besides pedals coming and going. Though I am posturing for a bunch of things, curious to see how it shakes.

Other than that. Just signed up to head to the guitar fest at Sweetwater with a buddy. I really enjoyed the old gearfest weekends they'd do, so bummed it's taken this long to get back to some in person events. Hope the camping happens again, so much fun.
 
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#62,196
kleinenenten said:
Yes, I actually have an old FocusRite. It worked last time I ran it! Of course, that was about 4 years ago... I think it may be the old computer I was trying moreso than the external hardware. Maybe I'll see if I can load a program on my current laptop. I'll be honest, I've never messed with anything much. DAW = Digital Audio Workspace, right? And I have NO experience with IRs or IR loaders. Not even sure what IR means...

My absolutely ideal situation is to just put a pedal at the end of my chain that can be my "amp" and includes my GK head and cab, and then just plug into my interface and record. I realize that's highly unlikely, but that's the idea. Are there any good free recording programs?

Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...

Glad the cabdryvr was thrown up. I need to get one. I landed on a quilter phantom block in a deal. I dig it, but minimal option on the cab sim. Definitely can't do what you're wanting without a splitter.
 
#62,200
Kaa said:
Yeah, the thread has been quiet.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been busy with plenty of other stuff. I'm continuing to learn old Metallica - this time "Phantom Lord" - mostly because it's just challenging enough and easy enough to find good instructional materials so that I can keep making progress. Besides that, I'm continuing my consistent messing around with fuzz pedals, and reading plenty as well as enjoying summer with the family. Lots going on, but not a lot in bass land for me.
 
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