Strictly amateur hour...

[richntiff]

Different people have different goals, skill levels and expectations. I’m not sure why we have to disparage them for it.

I have to agree with this. One thing that is often hard to take on TB is the seemingly constant need for some to point out the shortcomings or differences of other musicians they interact with as if it’s a personal affront to them, or an opportunity to trumpet their superiority.

 

[ashtray]

Yeah, that sounds like a bunch of dudes without families, hanging out and drinking beers on a Friday night, and working on cover tunes - then maybe getting lucky and get booked for $50 (total) at some dive place on a Saturday from 8pm-1am. Noooope!

 

[bass151]

well I responded to the same ad and got the same response. Researched them a bit, no social media anywhere and no band history. The same guy had posted the same ad previously so the 20 responses didn"t work out. LOL Gave him my back round which is pretty lengthy as I have worked with national, regional and local bands. He had no clue. I could play there show with 1 two hour rehearsal. Guy said they have to rehearse every Friday to keep their vocals tight. Told him he was wasting my time by by insisting 4 practices a month were necessary. Not a working organized band and probably incompetent. Don"t waste your time.

 

[LBS-bass]

I have to agree with this. One thing that is often hard to take on TB is the seemingly constant need for some to point out the shortcomings or differences of other musicians they interact with as if it’s a personal affront to them, or an opportunity to trumpet their superiority.

Or maybe it's just an opportunity for others to learn about the red flags they might watch out for, if they're not interested in sinking a year's worth of Fridays into a band that's not going to play anywhere.

Look, I understand that people who have experience might be viewed by others as "touting their superiority." I guess this isn't really a space for anyone to learn anything, if we're only allowing those who have little to no experience to light the way.

I know where the door is. I can show myself out.

 

[BlueTalon]

I was in that band when I first decided to get back into music...
This band practiced every Friday night for a YEAR trying to put three sets of music together to the BLs liking. Every. Friday. Night. In all that time we played ONE show that no one told me about until the week before we were supposed to play it.

I was in a similar circumstance when I was getting back into music. I tried a few different bands that lasted weeks at the most, then I ended up in a country/Johnny Cash band. So much promise at the beginning, so much hope and expectation. The guy talked a good game. A few early personnel changes, and we were off to the races... and by races, I mean one or two rehearsals a week. There was a battle of the bands that we somehow failed to apply for. Then there was a weekly open mic jam at a country bar that we never could get to (the guitar player hated the idea of paying for drinks where he was playing, so he preferred to never play). We did three gigs in my year of being with them.

That was bad enough, but it was made even worse by this weird relationship the BL (husband & wife team, but that wasn't the problem) had with a guy that lived in their building. He liked singing karaoke, specifically Sinatra karaoke, and they thought he was good enough to actually perform. So during the break before our last set, when we were changing into the Johnny Cash part of the show, this guy would go on and sing Sinatra karaoke because the BL let him. And then, of course, everyone else would think we were finished, and they'd leave, so we'd come out to do Johnny Cash songs for about 10% of the crowd. I tried explaining what was happening, but it didn't make a difference. After the third gig like that, I just couldn't take it any more.

The thing is, with our level of talent and preparedness, we could have gone out and started gigging after three or four weeks, if certain people had been willing to risk making a few mistakes during the gig and just live with it. It's funny, the more I think about it, the more things I remember that were huge red flags at the time that I just didn't see.

 

[kevmac]

This sounds about right for bands you find on Craigslist. I was itching to get back into some bands in 2019 - a few years had gone by after quitting all my projects when my son was born. I must have went to 20 auditions to find the one band that knew what they were doing.

Last CL add I responded to the guy that placed it was looking for smoking buddies.The session I had in mind was different than his. He was collecting disability and spent much of his day at the "weed commissary". I arrived at 8:30 for a 9 p.m. jam. He then proceeded to hold a smoke session while demonstrating the type of products he obtained for a couple of hours before we ever played a note, at around 11p.m. I told him I had a day job and had to rise at 5 a.m., something he didn't comprehend.

 

[LBS-bass]

That was bad enough, but it was made even worse by this weird relationship the BL (husband & wife team, but that wasn't the problem) had with a guy that lived in their building. He liked singing karaoke, specifically Sinatra karaoke, and they thought he was good enough to actually perform. So during the break before our last set, when we were changing into the Johnny Cash part of the show, this guy would go on and sing Sinatra karaoke because the BL let him.

OMG.

I've been working with a band that is dooming itself in a similar fashion. BL is new in town, has a neighbor that thinks our gigs are open mic night. Comes up and sings on my mic. Sometimes when I have a singing part, and sometimes not. I don't actually care more either way; nobody invades my personal work space whether I need to be on my mic for that song, or not. Period. I don't want Covid spit on my mic and I don't want you in my personal work space.

I was pretty happy with this bunch until the second time this happened. After the first time I talked with the BL about it and we agreed to set up a separate mic for any guests who might be invited up. The problem is that this second time there was already a guest singer up, and this guy just came up anyway, and grabbed my mic.

So I'm not singing with that guy anymore and I won't be setting up any mics for his neighbor to abuse. I'm pretty sure he's not happy with me, and I'm sad about that, but it is not the end of the world.

It was a fun band, but all good things come to an end, and usually for stupid reasons like this one. I have one more show with them where I will strictly be the bassist, and I doubt there will be more. He can have his amateur hour.

 

[BlueTalon]

I have one more show with them where I will strictly be the bassist, and I doubt there will be more. He can have his amateur hour.

If he gets miffed about you not singing, you should suggest he audition the neighbor to play bass and sing.

 

[Ralf1e]

Nah... good to see the writing on the wall now. There is a lot of this type of stuff out there, just need to weed through them to find something else that is worth it. Sometimes you go through a couple, sometimes you go through 20+...

Yep you gotta turn over a lot of stones before you find the handsome princes.

 

[brianrost]

I check CL every day just in case that plum is ready to drop.

I look now and then when I don't have many gigs happening. My success rate from wantads has been very low compared to word of mouth gigs that have always been successful.

Every once in a while I see something that sounds good but is just above my pay grade (i.e. experienced jazz players). Until I retired I couldn't tour so that disqualified others. About a month ago, one showed up that seemed like a good fit, I responded and never heard back.

Gotta love CL.

 

[DWBass]

Exclusivity?? Better be gigging A LOT and for good money! Otherwise, it ain't happening in my neck of the woods! And I'm not a fan of endless rehearsing!

 

[Bass Man Dan]

Simple: He's looking for a hobbyist with this band being their only outlet. He's not looking for a pro player. Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. I am one myself.

 

[sedan_dad]

Just a generalised observation / rant. Don't need advice, the issue is closed.
But some of you may find it interesting / informative / amusing / relatable...

I'm about one project shy of having my dance card full. I play with a few but nobody's working yet this year. (Full disclosure - I have 2 gigs coming up...) So I check CL every day just in case that plum is ready to drop.

I see this one. It's not far, it's music I've done a lot of. Red flags abound, of course, and they got bigger, redder, and more plentiful the more I learned. Here's a relevant snippet from the middle of the post:

" we practice every Friday nite from 6:00 to 9:00. We have Local gigs lined up, but won't book until Bass player gets up to par with our Setlist. We play out once a month, sometimes twice during the Summer months. "

So that's instantly troublesome: it takes them 3 hours A WEEK to pull off a 4-set country / blues / classic rock gig once a month. They've "probably" done local shows but have nothing booked now. And they won't START booking until the mythical bass player is "up to speed" which, having seen the setlist, should take 2 rehearsals tops...

Turns out, they're ('they' are a husband/wife team with various others...) not very technically literate. No email, they wanted a phone call. I called and the guy was at work, waited for a callback... Asked for a setlist, got a cellphone camera shot of a handwritten list. The guy says he's had 'dozens' of responses. I Say 'fine, let me know where to show up to play, when to be there, and what you want to hear." He says OK.

Two weeks later I figure I'm never hearing back, but I get a call out of the blue. Wants to have another conversation, evidently he's got around to scheduling rehearsal / audition. I mention that I can do the Friday he wants, because my other band rehearsal (actually a runthrough for a paying gig) isn't until Saturday.

Whereupon he kinda goes off on the idea that I was in another band -- despite my having told him in the first conversation that I'm a working pro... "Oh no - we had a guy who was in another band and there were scheduling issues." They play -once a month.- (The last band I was in that said they did once a month actually did once a year...) They have nothing scheduled now. I told him to give me a call if he needs someone on short notice.

Donno why he didn't like any of the other 'dozens' of players, but he's still running the ad...

So -- red flags are not necessarily disqualifying, and you have to follow through on every lead, because you just don't know. But it turns out that in this case, first impressions were correct.

I'm sure this will be a fine opportunity for a low-key player who doesn't want to work too hard, spend 12 hours a month re-playing the same 60 songs, and maybe do a local gig for not much money. I have no problem with that -- but it's not for me.

Yea that kind of crap is out there. Personally I wouldnt waste a phone call on it.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Simple: He's looking for a hobbyist with this band being their only outlet. He's not looking for a pro player. Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. I am one myself.

With the right discipline, there's no reason a hobbyist-centric project can't be gig-ready in short order. So much depends on the collective work ethic(s) which, hopefully, overflows into all components of our daily lives. IOW, we're intolerant of waste whether it be time, manpower, or material resources.

Nothing worse than being offered a last-minute job and scrambling to ascertain all members are available.

Riis

 

[GBBSbassist]

Turns out, they're ('they' are a husband/wife team with various others...) not very technically literate. No email, they wanted a phone call. I called and the guy was at work, waited for a callback... Asked for a setlist, got a cellphone camera shot of a handwritten list.

Ouch. These are legit the types of players who can't fathom that competent musicians don't need to run through a 3 minute song with only four chord in it to "nail it"

Just ignore any of the old timey posters on CL who don't want to embrace text/email imho. They're not worth your time. You will inevitably be roped into a long phone conversation that will go nowhere.

 

[MtManiac]

This is the type of bands I’ve been involved with since 2007 or so. We’re all grown ups with day jobs and kids, none of us are “working pro’s” at music. Move on and find what you want, no sense in complaining about it. OTOH, exclusivity would be a major “FU” from me.

 

[3Liter]

I know where the door is. I can show myself out.

Don't leave the thread, I always enjoy your posts.

---------------------------------------

I'm in a "thing" now. I don't know for how long. I was going through my emails and my first contact with the band leader was early January. I met him through a meet up thing that was all virtual a year after everyone had tired of that. He was putting together a band, which, I assumed to be just a dad jam kind of thing. I'm all in for that. I wanted to play more bass, not in my house with my kids around stressing over school, and not really on stage.

Weeks go by and he put together a zoom call with some prospective guys. One guy knows/met a drummer. Now we have a date on a Saturday afternoon 2 weeks to GTG and try it out. Pushed out another week because LG/BL is not ready. Host/singer (not the BL/LG) has a nice room set up like Guitar Center. I plug in and am rolling in 5 minutes once I find the power switch. We played for a bit on the stuff we'd picked and start packing up. Drummer seems a little uncertain about the stuff we'd picked. I'm sensing some additional talk of "gigging". This is the first meeting. We decided to pick some additional songs via email (Then a zoom I couldn't be a part of) so I showed up 3 weeks later knowing my parts inside and out for some of what we played the last time and the new stuff.

Many questions about "what key" from others. Dropped from E to C on one that we never discussed, I transposed pretty quick. The old Capo II playing G shaped chords is still they (original key of A) debate. Then one that I know I was right on, chorus is E C#m A B and verse is E B A A and the singer/host played they chorus progression over the whole thing. When I asked what he was doing because our parts weren't lining up, it was just awkward and tension filled. Playing was "meh" but I had fun learning the parts and putting it togther. I called for several replays because it wasn't tight, and the LG seemed to have forgotten what he knew and didn't really even know one of them. More loose talk of "gigs" that I'm ignoring cause I know it wont happen. Reality was it wasn't about booking gigs, it was about just playing on stage. I'm sure like many basement bands, nobody has connections. (Full disclosure, I have done very limited gigging, but I know what a monster pain in the ass it is....talkling to folks, networking, etc. I've been home bound for 2 years and working my ass off for work...I don't go out, and I don't care to).

Anyhow, LG /BL that wasn't prepared sends out excited email....hey lets pick another set of music. I offered that maybe we should tighten up the stuff we did already and actually make sure we're on the same page goalwise.. Hell, we met last weekend, and STILL have not nailed down the next session (someone was too busy, etc. etc). The icing on the cake? BL sends this out:
Band Partnership Agreement Template | legalzoom.com .

I searched TB and didn't really see this had come up before. Cracked me up considering, its like a prenup on the second date and one of the guys is a lawyer. And it's pointless.

I haven't touched the material since last week, expect to look up where I was correct in the progression in question. My next visit for me will be the deciding factor I suppose. I really do enjoy prepping the material, bass isn't as much fun without a goal of using it.

 

[wilberthenry]

One thing I notice about certain CL ads is that they never stop running. These always use words "professional" and mention all the gigs they have, but never seem to fill in the missing parts of their band for any length of time.

 

[Space Pickle]

I'll never understand why local groups want exclusivity.

Well, it's because they want to jam for fun more than they want to play out. Not really a recipe for gigging success, but some people like the idea of playing out more than actually doing it.

 

[richntiff]

Or maybe it's just an opportunity for others to learn about the red flags they might watch out for, if they're not interested in sinking a year's worth of Fridays into a band that's not going to play anywhere.

Look, I understand that people who have experience might be viewed by others as "touting their superiority." I guess this isn't really a space for anyone to learn anything, if we're only allowing those who have little to no experience to light the way.

I know where the door is. I can show myself out.

I agree that in concept, a thread like this could be used as an opportunity for the passing of experience - but that’s not the spirit in which it’s typically shared. You have to admit that - it’s pretty obvious when post after post is piling on to the original, each touting the pathetic amateurism and delusional tendencies of the people they got together to play with.

And, wait a minute… TB has a door? Nobody ever tells me anything!