Some of you all act like you were never amateurs before.
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Strictly amateur hour...
- Thread starter ArtechnikA
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- red flag
Pretty common scenario…..many “bands” that advertise for a new member on Craig’s, etc, are really just a group of folks who like to get together and jam. For them, the rehearsal or jam is really the end game, even if there is an occasional gig at a vfw or local Eagles club. This is perfectly fine for amateur musicians who just want to jam with friends and have fun. However for me, I don’t have time, the need or the desire to rehearse the same tunes over and over, and politely turn these kinds of offers down as soon as it becomes apparent.
I'm in several of those "amateur bands", but we have all paid our dues with years of gigging experience (we all have 50+ years experience). We range in age from 65 to 78, and a couple of members are heading into serious health concerns. At this point, the hang and fun music are more important that being a star. Making a few bucks several times a month is ok with us.
i've never been in an ensemble situation that would rehearse on a "nite" when serious players would/should be gigging. it just doesn't happen!
regular friday night rehearsals are more than a clue that the band is for 'fun and hanging' (no biggie if that's what you'd like to do!).
After almost 10 years of regular gigging with 3 different cover bands, COVID was the death knell. I now find myself not particularly interested in joining another cover band for many reasons- band wanting "exclusivity", weekend rehearsal hours, late night gigs, driving home at 3 a.m., plus dealing with "weak link" members not doing their due diligence, etc.
In the mid 90s, I would do family barbecues and block parties with my brother and an in-law of his... lots of fun and memories. I recently blew the dust off all my sheet music of the bands of that time- Matchbox 20, Fastball, Vertical Horizon, Marcy's Playground, and such, and reached out to family members to reassemble our trio. They are as excited as I am to play those songs again. I actually am looking forward to focusing on having good times with extended family, and not dealing with all the drama that goes with the local band scene. I'm done with it for good.
In the mid 90s, I would do family barbecues and block parties with my brother and an in-law of his... lots of fun and memories. I recently blew the dust off all my sheet music of the bands of that time- Matchbox 20, Fastball, Vertical Horizon, Marcy's Playground, and such, and reached out to family members to reassemble our trio. They are as excited as I am to play those songs again. I actually am looking forward to focusing on having good times with extended family, and not dealing with all the drama that goes with the local band scene. I'm done with it for good.
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Of course I was.
And not that long ago, which is why the experience is still fresh in my mind...
But since that time, I have worked my a$$ off trying to advance. I have already mentioned in this thread the level of competition in this area simply due to the sheer number of players. I have seen these situations before. I have been in these situations before. In the early days, I needed a low-pressure opportunity to play with other people. I learned a lot.
I've also learned A LOT from this forum, because life's too short to learn everything yourself - we must learn from the experiences of others.
My wish for everyone is that they find the opportunity that provides what they're looking for, at the time they're looking for it.
This has two important steps, and IME lots of people overlook the first step: Know what you want.
I already ignore any posting that uses phrases like "Low-key," "Just Jam," "Love of the music," "maybe," and "eventually."
( I have suggested that some of the guitar guys looking for bass & drum rhythm sections to support their solo wankery just go buy a DigiTech Trio pedal...)
If a band needs 12 hours a month "to keep the vocals tight" they should have the rhythm section come in, lay down Karaoke backing tracks, and then go away until the booking calendar starts filling up. I don't need 3 hours a week to refresh my parts in Wagon Wheel, Sweet Home Chicago, and Can't You See...
In my first contact to the guy, I opened with the phrase "If you're working, we should talk." In my mind, that established my level of expectation, but maybe not in his. That's OK, we came to an understanding. I left it with "If you need someone, call me."
I opened this thread with this:
That's all.
This right here is the crux of why these discussions always go off the rails in this very particular way.
There are so many different ways to play music, different goals and different levels of aspiration. Unfortunately, there's likely a significant percentage of people here who are playing in the kinds of bands that the more experienced players here have probably grown weary of. I can see how that could lead to resentment if you recognize yourself in some of the comments about things like not doing the work, etc.
But really, if you're in that band and you're happy with where you are, none of this stuff is aimed at you. It's always worth repeating that not everyone has the time to do what it takes to polish stuff up past a certain point and it's still perfectly fine to play music and find others who will enjoy working that way. I have nothing but warm appreciation for the players that invited me out to jam when I was just getting my chops back together.
But it seems like there's a lot of resentment toward those who decide to kick it up a notch and take the benefit of their experience to make smarter choices as they progress. I'm not sure how to respond to that, other than to say that it's also fine to hold yourself to a higher standard and that, yes, it will become increasingly more frustrating for you if you do, because the things that make you happy become more rare, once you realize you can't be happy spending one night a week hacking through old, tired songs so that someone else can play the chord changes in the wrong order for the fortieth time because he couldn't be bothered or didn't have time to sit down for an hour at home.
So I guess we'll always have two different groups (at least) talking past each other here, kicking up resentments of one another because those with these experiences are likely to be describing the situations the others find themselves in, which is going to make those people uncomfortable. And instead of seeing that as experience, that uncomfortable group will always suggest it's a sense of superiority or some other silliness that dismisses the long learning curve it took to arrive at that place.
Sigh. It's like everything else in life; people just talk past each other and fail to even bother to put themselves in the others shoes anymore.
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The problem for me with three hours a week was that after joining four or five bands, if every band demands this, you have no free time left for anything else. And if you do not personally need the rehearsal time, you are there for the benefit of others who haven't done the work.
I don't do weekly rehearsals anymore, period. I do rehearse when there are shows coming up on the books, and the amount of rehearsal I'll do depends on how much I think is needed. A blues-based band playing simple changes is only going to get two rehearsals from me. A band that's doing complicated material might get a lot more than that, because we need it and because I also enjoy doing that stuff more.
Not having band obligations every single weeknight means it's easier to find rehearsal nights that work when those rehearsals do have to happen.
Most forums are full of the most "into it" of people. This forum is a mix of super enthusiast hobbists and pros or former pros. The average person may not even know such a place exists or doesn't want to spend time on a forum. I have learned a lot herein, and in real jams with real people. Most real people I met through CL and then on "the scene". I have never been a pro and probably never made over $2000 total playing music. No biggie to me.
But, as in my day job, I have learned professionalism. Music business is business as much as it is fun. Show up prepared, listen, communicate well, be gracious, know when to avoid drama, hone chops, etc.
I like activities where I can improve. I'm quite middle aged and I have stuff I can still learn. There are others like me. There are other that think they will put together a band and the gigs will magically happen. I was in a band like this last summer. Lots of rehearsing, and business plans, and names, websites, how are we going to record, beer coozies and coasters, etc ad infinitum. This was a 70+ retired guy. If he didn't like the tunes, we didn't do them. He wanted the stage so badly on his terms, he didn't get that maybe even at his age he should have paid some dues with others to see how it could work.
After I left, he recruited a guy I know that took up guitar in his late 50's after he retired. I met this guy in a dad band basement jam and he quickly outgrew what we were doing and built he own blues band that played out often and brought his running club as a crowd all the time. He got it. He might have bailed since cause I see they are advertising for another singer.
The world needs dreamers and the world needs doers too. Sometimes you find both in the same person and those people grow.
It's all in figuring out who you are dealing with.
For pickup bands and subs, I'll only do a rehearsal if the gigs on offer make it worthwhile.
I may do a house run through to top and tail and a few chord checks but not because the band itself needs them.
I do plenty of prep at home...which again needs to be costed against, but even for regular gigs, everyone comes prepared, and 3 hrs pretty much gets the set done if we are doing popular tunes.
If the line up can't work like that, then its not for me.
Rehearsals or get togethers arent for learning songs.
I may do a house run through to top and tail and a few chord checks but not because the band itself needs them.
I do plenty of prep at home...which again needs to be costed against, but even for regular gigs, everyone comes prepared, and 3 hrs pretty much gets the set done if we are doing popular tunes.
If the line up can't work like that, then its not for me.
Rehearsals or get togethers arent for learning songs.
One one hand you seem to understand that different people have different goals.
But you immediately follow that up with a disparaging sounding paragraph that seems to mock the band for "NEEDING" to spend that much time rehearsing.
You seem to be so oriented toward playing out on stage and working that you seem oblivious to the idea that some musicians can simply enjoy the act of jamming itself. I don't think that makes someone amateur or worthy of derision. In fact I might go so far as to say that anyone who plays for the pure enjoyment of playing rather than the pursuit of money/fame is more of an artist.
Sorry, but this whole thread has the feel of a high school bully trying to rally his friends to pick on the freshman class.
Or maybe all this is an attempt to convince yourself that you rejected them rather than them rejecting you because they wanted exclusivity. Clearly it was a bad fit and a mutual rejection and thats fine. I don't understand why you think it might be "amusing" to anyone. I've had similar experiences, but didn't feel the need to share it.
Funny thing that, since it feels a bit like that from the other end, too. Experienced folks need not bother to share what they've learned here. The bullies will make sure you pay dearly for daring to imagine that it might be useful to someone.
Have a lovely day. I'm pretty sure I've wished you that more than once!
There's nothing wrong with people just jamming and enjoying it. But such people need to be honest with themselves and with the people they are trying to recruit about what they are doing and why they are doing it. Those who are not honest about it deserve whatever ridicule they get.
You're going way out of your way to read more into this than is there. The only real point was that IMO (pretty much everything in Band Management is opinion...) pro-level working country / classic rock bands do not need that much rehearsal. I'm OK if your opinion is different.
Nope, you made that up all on your own.
It is literally the textbook definition of amateur. "One who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather than as a profession"
Make your own thread. I never said anything about 'art.'
So don't. Unwatch. Bye.
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Let's be clear -- I was never out to ridicule anyone, although some seem to have taken it that way. OK - that's on me.
For the band in question - I haven't mentioned their name. I wish them the best. They do have a web presence, which you can find if you're really motivated - there are enough breadcrumbs in thread. I'm not going to post links, because it's irrelevant. Suffice to say my impression that it was not a good fit for me was confirmed. The fact that they had a player before tells me it can be a good match for someone. I think that's great.
I was referring more to the pile-on that happens post-OP. And I likewise hope the band in question finds a good match for them. Good matches are to be celebrated wherever they are found.
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Come on, let's be real here. "Amateur Hour" is a pejorative and that's how you meant to use it.
Urban Dictionary: Amateur Hour
@ArtechnikA ,
I want to thank you for bringing this ad to my attention. It was removed at some point.
I was one of the dozens of bassists he was speaking of.
I received the set list, but when I didn't see the ad, I thought he found someone.
I'm checking the distance this week. The place is in the middle of nowhere.
If the distance is tolerable, I will be setting up an audition.
He has been playing in the Valley for 40+ years. He and his sister are the lead singers.
He runs things old school, which is what I am used to.
The band will be playing VFWs, Fire houses, and some bars. Places they played before losing their bassist.
I like most of the songs and played many of them a while back.
After 30 years of working seven days a week, I finally stopped last year.
I'm only working five days a week now, so I can go back to playing again, so this opportunity fits me well.
Thank you again for bringing it to my attention.
Bert
I want to thank you for bringing this ad to my attention. It was removed at some point.
I was one of the dozens of bassists he was speaking of.
I received the set list, but when I didn't see the ad, I thought he found someone.
I'm checking the distance this week. The place is in the middle of nowhere.
If the distance is tolerable, I will be setting up an audition.
He has been playing in the Valley for 40+ years. He and his sister are the lead singers.
He runs things old school, which is what I am used to.
The band will be playing VFWs, Fire houses, and some bars. Places they played before losing their bassist.
I like most of the songs and played many of them a while back.
After 30 years of working seven days a week, I finally stopped last year.
I'm only working five days a week now, so I can go back to playing again, so this opportunity fits me well.
Thank you again for bringing it to my attention.
Bert
