Double Bass String height for Jazz pizzicato

[redtomfunk]

Hi all,
I bought a double bass 20 years after having sold mine.
A Thomann semi solid which I happy with in terms of sound and quality at least for the time being.
I kept playing electric bass meanwhile.
To keep it short I am a beginner and I play jazz.
Unfortunately there is no luthier where I live and I cannot travel to one as the journey with the double bass will exceed the costs of the double bass itself.
Now I want my double bass to be set up for jazz pizzicato.
I replaced the strings to a set of brand new Thomastik Spirocore weichs.
I filed the nut to have as small space as possible between the strings and the fretboard (at the nut)
I have filed a bit the bridge notches and could play it with some exercise.
I had to stay away from it for some weeks and when I got back to it I felt it was pretty hard to play.
I started with the idea to play the instrument with a bit of a higher action just for exercise but then realised it would be hard to play in thumb position.
The current action is 9mm on the G string and 10mm on the E string.
Action is measured from the bottom of the string to the top of the fretboard end.
I have a rat tail file.
How low would you go if you were me?
Please consider my bridge is not adjustable.
Which sandpaper do I use to sand the bridge once I am done with the bridge string notches?

Thanks in advance for your advice

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I’ll leave the woodworking tips to the luthier types, but here’s an older thread with a lot of people weighing in about their preferred string heights: https://www.talkbass.com/forum/f23/string-height-poll-474253/

 

[Reiska]

Hi, with Spiro weichs I had my strings at 6-9mm, G 6mm, D 7mm, A 8mm, E 9mm. This is for comparison, check the setup threads for other information.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Which Spiro Weich?
4/4 (S42W) or 3/4 (3886,0)?
On the same scale length and the same pitch the tension of the 4/4 is lower. (About like downtuning the 3/4 by a halftone.)

9mm for the G with Spirocore is too high for most players, specially when you start (again).
6 mm for the G is fine, you might go down to 7 mm first and try that, since you have a non-adjustable bridge.
Most players recommend 1 mm difference to the next lower string, but I prefer 1.5 mm difference.

Before changing anything, draw the shape of your bridge, specially the top curvature so you can transfer that to your lowered bridge.

Try that first as you cannot get up again (unless you get adjusters and cut less wood out of the bridge feet).
So try 7/8.5/10/11.5 mm first. If the G feels still too high go 0.5 mm lower, try the G only, go 0.5 mm lower again if you feel the need to do so.

If you file down you should do that parallel to the ribs, not perpendicular to the crown at that point!

If you file it a bit wider than the string, you can leave the crown untouched first and just file it deeper. If you go too deep, gou might be able to built a bit up again using wood dust and superglue. It bonds better if both sides are still there.

Next I would go down with the E so that it is easy to play but does it rattle when plucked hard. If you have the right height for G and E measure the height of both, subtract G-height from E-height and dive the result by 3. That is the difference from string to string. Adjust the middle grooves (again, all parallel to the ribs), either by using the calculated string height difference or by using the drawing of the bridge crown at the position of new G and E height.

Before filing the crown down, play and check if you are happy. Also use the bow if there is enough bow clearance on the A and D string. You can still adjust a bit and since the sides are still there the wood dust with superglue is still an option.
Don’t go too low with the middle strings or the bow clearance will suffer.

It might take some time going in smaller steps, but this is better than ruining the bridge.

I did this myself with my bridge (but with 5 strings), so I know what I’m talking about.

Your fingerboard may need to be planed when the strings are lower as some positions might buzz now because of a high spot that was not lose enough before. That is a task for a luthier, as you can easily ruin the fingerboard it you try it yourself without know how to do it correctly.

Good luck!

BTW, the solid top instruments with plywood bottom/ribs are called hybrid here.

 

[Wasnex]

IMHO, get the height in the approximate range and then install bridge adjusters. To some degree the tension and height will vary with environmental conditions. AFAIK, humidity is the biggest factor. If your area experiences significant seasonal humidity changes, you either need bridge adjusters or more than one bridge.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

IMHO, get the height in the approximate range and then install bridge adjusters. To some degree the tension and height will vary with environmental conditions. AFAIK, humidity is the biggest factor. If your area experiences significant seasonal humidity changes, you either need bridge adjusters or more than one bridge.

Since he is located in Norway, the humidity changes are probably not that large as in the US. At least in Central Europe they are not that large that adjusters or summer/winter soundposts are needed.

Adjusters can be installed later or to rescue a bridge when the action has gone too low. A lot of Europeans don‘t like to install adjusters, specially if they do classical playing too.

Personally, I have two bridges, one with adjusters (Yamahiko) and one without (which needs some changes now because the fingerboard got a shim).

 

[Derek Kay]

A higher action gives me a more defined pulse for swinging.
A lower action lessens that dynamic, leaving a flatter sound similar to a fretless.

The action is somewhat dependent on the curvature of the fingerboard (not the radius). More curve lends itself to a higher action and vice versa.

You need a compromise of the sound you want, the style you play, and the lowest action that doesn't rattle over your fingerboard. An adjustable bridge would help you experiment. Some strong arco can show up the vulnerable spots..

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Those numbers are waaaaaaayyyy off but you already knew that. If the bass played well when you last saw it I’d check the bridge position. Even a small bump out of place can make a big difference in feel.

Also, crazy question: the soundpost is set properly and not floating somewhere inside the corpus, right?

 

[redtomfunk]

Which Spiro Weich?

3/4. Thanks for your answer

If you file down you should do that parallel to the ribs, not perpendicular to the crown at that point!

I don`t get this. I would have done the way around as the shape of the bridge should resemble that of the fretboard with its curvature. So when I lower the action I follow the curvature. Can you help to clarify this?

Adjusters can be installed later

is it relatively easy?
The climate here is quite dry and it gets slightly dryer in the winter

Which sandpaper do I use to sand the bridge once I am done with the bridge string notches?

Anyone who can help with this?

Your fingerboard may need to be planed when the strings are lower as some positions might buzz now because of a high spot that was not lose enough before. That is a task for a luthier, as you can easily ruin the fingerboard it you try it yourself without know how to do it correctly.

This is why I take it with extreme care and adjust mm by mm so I don`t need a luthier as there isn`t one here and I live thousands of kms away from any possibility

 

[Reiska]

Since he is located in Norway, the humidity changes are probably not that large as in the US. At least in Central Europe they are not that large that adjusters or summer/winter soundposts are needed.

In Scandinavia the seasonable variances in string heights are rather crazy, dear DM On my bass with fixed bridge there`s 1,5mm - 2mm difference between heart of the winter / late summer. Also, depends if you`re in south or north, as in deep north there can be 60 - 70 celcius variation in seasonal temperatures.

 

[redtomfunk]

Exactly I live in the North (Finnmark) down to -20C (occasionally even lower) in winter and up to +30 in summer.
The bass is kept inside at a stable temperature all the time but the humidity is hard to control

 

[notabene]

Any bridge can be adjusted up with shims under the feet. So... no worry.

 

[jj.833]

I second to what @KUNGfuSHERIFF wrote above, as the Thomanns I've seen generally come quite well set. Make sure the bridge is in right position (the notch in the f hole points to mid of the foot), and also whether the bridge is set perpendicular to the top (the leg sits fully on the top desk).

 

[DoubleMIDI]

3/4. Thanks for your answer


I don`t get this. I would have done the way around as the shape of the bridge should resemble that of the fretboard with its curvature. So when I lower the action I follow the curvature. Can you help to clarify this?



is it relatively easy?
The climate here is quite dry and it gets slightly dryer in the winter


Anyone who can help with this?


This is why I take it with extreme care and adjust mm by mm so I don`t need a luthier as there isn`t one here and I live thousands of kms away from any possibility

The force of the string on the bridge is more downward than sideways. If you don‘t file parallel to the ribs, the strings get closer together if you make the existing grooves tangential deeper.

First file the bridge down from the center to the sides. Round the top and also round the grooves a bit down on both sides to avoid edges the string may grab.

Sand if everything is right, not earlier. Use raising gradation like 150/240/400 if you need an idea.

Lubricate the grooves when finished with a very soft pencil.

If you need to plan some spots, I can explain it to you what needs to be done and how to find the place where the spot is, but you need to understand it fully before you start and do things very slowly, gradually to get to the point after some months. I have done that for one buzzing string on my DB and for a full fingerboard on an EUB.

If you can live without your bass for a while, you can send the bridge to a luthier to get adjusters installed. They always make a normal bridge first, drill the feet for the adjusters (need to be parallel, important!) and fill the hole on the underside of the bridge feet with dowels.
It is a pain to sand the bridge feet with preinstalled adjusters to the top.

Just lay your bass on the G-side so the soundpost doesn’t fall. You mak also like to put a belt around the bass and fasten it well to get some pressure on the soundpost.

I can understand that there are no luthiers in northern Norway. Probably not a good place at all for stringed instruments (beyond a kantele). Since @Reiska explained to me that at least northerner Scandinavia has wide humidity swings (my experience ends in Denmark), an adjustable bridge might be a good idea.

But if you got the bass delivered from Thomann just recently, the.bridge might got displaced during transport. Make sure the inner f-hole cuts are in the middle of the bridge, that the distance from outer string to fingerboard edge is equal on both sides of the fingerboard and that the lower side of the bridge is perpendicular the the top at that point when tuned to pitch.

9 to 10 mm is a bit strange, that might change if a displaced bridge is set to the right position, so check first before filing anything.

If a luthier should install adjusters without a bass he might ask a lot of things or refuse to do it by mail. Even if it is a long way to the next (bass) luthier, it might be a good idea to see him for a complete setup. Let him show you how to do basic task yourself, he will understand that you cannot get to him frequently. And plan to let him check your bass every few years.

 

[redtomfunk]

Those numbers are waaaaaaayyyy off but you already knew that. If the bass played well when you last saw it I’d check the bridge position. Even a small bump out of place can make a big difference in feel.

Also, crazy question: the soundpost is set properly and not floating somewhere inside the corpus, right?

The bass has not been moved from where it was. It is just me who have lost strength, being a beginner staying away from it a few weeeks.

The soundpost is in place. By eye inspection it is where it is supposed to be. If it is the optimal place I don`t know but it is not floating around.

The force of the string on the bridge is more downward than sideways. If you don‘t file parallel to the ribs, the strings get closer together if you make the existing grooves tangential deeper.

That is what I am thinking. The strings should be slightly closer when the action is lower. But again I might be wrong.

If you can live without your bass for a while, you can send the bridge to a luthier to get adjusters installed. They always make a normal bridge first, drill the feet for the adjusters (need to be parallel, important!) and fill the hole on the underside of the bridge feet with dowels.

I had this scenario in mind but a bass shop in Norway specializing in double bass told me they needed the bass to do the job.

But if you got the bass delivered from Thomann just recently, the.bridge might got displaced during transport. Make sure the inner f-hole cuts are in the middle of the bridge, that the distance from outer string to fingerboard edge is equal on both sides of the fingerboard and that the lower side of the bridge is perpendicular the the top at that point when tuned to pitch.

Thomann delivers with the brdige removed and marked positions for it on the top. Strings and bridge set flat in a wrapping are used to press on the top and retain the soundpost position

Even if it is a long way to the next (bass) luthier, it might be a good idea to see him for a complete setup. Let him show you how to do basic task yourself, he will understand that you cannot get to him frequently. And plan to let him check your bass every few years.

Believe me it is a journey that takes several days...

Thanks everyone for your answers. I will proceed slowly as I haven`t got much free time

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Are you sure you placed the bridge with the right side up?
Typically the tailpiece side is plan and perpendicular to the top and the fingerboard side is filed down and not exactly plan. But there are a few exceptions.
Maybe it is clear from the wideness of the grooves, but just try switching bass and treble side to see if it gets better or worse.

BTW , a few pics of the bridge on your instrument (specially from the side, but also from fingerboard to bridge and vice Verda) may help us to see if anything bis wrong and what needs to be done.

Even if you get the instrument working now, the climate changes at your place might stress your bass enough that things may fail in the future and for some things you won’t be able to solve them yourself but need the help of a luthier.
For the rest of tasks get some books about bass maintenance and stringed instruments lutherie in general (the ones for bass only show parts).

You might have better chosen a plywood instrument as they are more robust. Or a solid body electric DB made by a luthier like the MK-EUBs from Italy.

But pray that nothing bad will happen for the next two decades. Always handle your instrument with great care and avoid potentially dangerous situations.
Good luck, send some pics and feel free to ask again if you need more advice.

 

[redtomfunk]

Are you sure you placed the bridge with the right side up?

The feet are marked with string numbers underneath (E, G) and the width of the grooves confirms it as you say.

You might have better chosen a plywood instrument as they are more robust. Or a solid body electric DB made by a luthier like the MK-EUBs from Italy.

I have considered possible alternatives but the hybrid seemed the most suitable to me.

I will try and take some pics asap

 

[notabene]

Once you get it setup properly, I think you will be very happy with this bass. No need to regret what might have been!

 

[redtomfunk]

This is the start. I worked on the G and D strings a while ago

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Can you make one like the last one but with the end of the fingerboard visible too? And one with end of the fingerboard visible above the bridge crown (shoot from over the tailpiece)?
Otherwise it looks good.