what guitar? simplify it until he gets his part confidently. then bring it back to speed.
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Struck Down For Playing A Jamerson Line!
- Thread starter PolkaHero
- Start date
That's too bad, his playing in that song is what made it interesting to me. I was never a big Journey fan but that was my favorite by far.
Ignore those hard heads (just kidding) that tell you to play it like the original regardless. You have a different band and different instrumentation. Jamerson's part may sound good in the original, but not work for your band, with your instrumentation. Support the music - make your band sound good. Play what sounds good.
Everyone knows it though, I think if it were done well enough people would take notice of it. It's a GREAT tune.
I didn't realize that Stevie recorded it. I only know Marvin Gaye's hit version.
Anyway, I'll just chime in and say that I've also been in situations where I've thought I was raising the whole band up by learning and executing an exact part, only to finally realize that it just did not work with the instrumentation and/or particular individuals, at the time. If you're about to cause a potentially useful tune to fail, you adapt.
As someone else said, though, there are limits. You absolutely need to preserve parts in tunes like "Another One Bites the Dust" or "Come Together", for example.
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Interesting thread.
Nice discussion of the chord progressions/bass here. Don't know if it's absolutely accurate though.
'What becomes of the broken hearted'.Need help understanding the bass line
And a video here:
After listening to the song, my two cents (which may not be worth much) is that the chord/bass relationship is a signature part of the song and should be done as such if the intent is to cover the song. However, some bands do a "make it your own" thing very nicely, and perhaps in this instance some deviation might sound good. I think Paul Young does a cover with slightly different arrangement.
If the intent is to cover it, I think everyone should learn their parts and if learned properly, everyone should be able to get past the "throwing me off" thing. I've encountered that in some songs where my natural instinct is to play it different from the recording (happens more rhythmically) but after some practice I can get by it.
Nice discussion of the chord progressions/bass here. Don't know if it's absolutely accurate though.
'What becomes of the broken hearted'.Need help understanding the bass line
And a video here:
After listening to the song, my two cents (which may not be worth much) is that the chord/bass relationship is a signature part of the song and should be done as such if the intent is to cover the song. However, some bands do a "make it your own" thing very nicely, and perhaps in this instance some deviation might sound good. I think Paul Young does a cover with slightly different arrangement.
If the intent is to cover it, I think everyone should learn their parts and if learned properly, everyone should be able to get past the "throwing me off" thing. I've encountered that in some songs where my natural instinct is to play it different from the recording (happens more rhythmically) but after some practice I can get by it.
I'm not trying to be d*&$, but there is enough space in between the changes of that song to drive a truck through. I would have pretty serious reservations about a band member that couldn't find his way in it.
Seriously, playing crap with crap players is not my idea of fun, but everyone's got their own standards (or not) I guess.
I'm too old to play with hacks. I did it long enough and part of it was my fault for not trying to improve my own situation. I'd rather go to jams and do pickup gigs than be in a band unless it's a really good one and those are far a few between.
I hear you. I have tons of fun with the musicians in the best bands I play with because everyone is good at what they do and nobody is taking themself too seriously to have a good time. But the music is the reason that whole thing happens and if that's not working, there's no point to it.
Just curious how much guitar playing he’s doing. Maybe suggest he just do the vocals only. Spending too much time on one song can kill your spirit. Won’t be the first time a good band passed on a great cover song. It happens more than you would think. Really.
OP here: Just found out our one horn player quit the band due to "irreconcilable musical differences". Essentially he likes to rewrite the horn parts to make them "his own". Unfortunately that doesn't work with two other horn players if you want to keep things tight. Guess I could be a d*#k and do the same thing over this, but I'm more of a team player and this is a great band that play some really nice festivals plus everyone gets along really well.
Little late in the thread to ask, but since the OP is still engaged: Do the other band members (in particular the guitarist/vocalist getting confused) have a passable understanding of music theory? Are you even able to say "Yeah, the bass doesn't play the root on these chords in the original - I'm playing the 3 here, the 5 there, etc. I *could* play the root, but the overall harmonic balance won't be right anymore, unless someone else (keys?) moves a voice from the root to the degree that the bass was playing." ?
Something that always struck me as odd, is the chorus on The Miracles "Tracks of My Tears".
I don't know much about the specifics of how that session went down, but I always assumed the vocal, and brass section was over-dubbed after the rhythm section had left.
There's that iconic 4 note musical motif that ends each line of the chorus, but the phrasing of the rhythm section is so wildly different to that of the brass section, that Jamerson has finished all 4 notes as the brass has hit the 3rd note.
Maybe that was always the intention.
Maybe it was decided the brass phrasing needed to match the vocal phrasing, and to overlook the odd rubato this created for the entire chorus, and the strange dissonance of that 4 note motif.
When the rhythm section was re-recorded in stereo, with Bob Babbitt on bass, for the U.S. single release, the phrasing of the original rhythm track was respected.
If I were in a cover band, trying to do a version of that song without a horn section, I think it might be a tough call as to whether to replicate the original rhythm track, or to follow the vocal melody.
Just listened to Tracks Of My Tears for the first time in decades: the rhythm section is rock solid in the chorus, hitting the 2-and beats, while the horns are just as solid in playing those slow triplets throughout each phrase of the chorus. My guess is that there was nothing accidental about it. Works for me.
Very out-there arrangement---sounds like the kind of the-whole-band-is-a-drum-set stuff James Brown was coming up with at the time. But, in fairness, if you've been hearing the Motown hits from the sixties your whole life, it's easy to miss how cutting-edge the arrangements were.
Speaking of respecting the arrangement:
"I'll Be There" and the like were some of the few American songs on the radio back then that were unignorable the way the best British Invasion songs were.
Speaking of which, the Beatles even covered several Motown songs early on. And if no one else noticed that the music under the credits at the beginning of each episode of Patrick McGoohan's Danger Man series used/stole the chords of "I Can't Help Myself (Sugar Pie Honey Bunch)," I sure did.
Very out-there arrangement---sounds like the kind of the-whole-band-is-a-drum-set stuff James Brown was coming up with at the time. But, in fairness, if you've been hearing the Motown hits from the sixties your whole life, it's easy to miss how cutting-edge the arrangements were.
Speaking of respecting the arrangement:
"I'll Be There" and the like were some of the few American songs on the radio back then that were unignorable the way the best British Invasion songs were.
Speaking of which, the Beatles even covered several Motown songs early on. And if no one else noticed that the music under the credits at the beginning of each episode of Patrick McGoohan's Danger Man series used/stole the chords of "I Can't Help Myself (Sugar Pie Honey Bunch)," I sure did.
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Neither the guitarist or keys player read music well but they both have understandings of chord structures.
